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Thread: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    No doubt he is going to have a long career....... because he has a long term contract.....



    Here is a video of Solomon Jones that I posted few weeks ago for those that care.




    And yes Since86 I know the video doesn't prove anything, so don't bother in commenting because I know what you are going to say, thanks.
    Are you just arguing here for the sake of arguing? Because I know you know the game well enough that you cannot possibly be saying that Solo and Ian are the same player playing at the same level and doing everything just as well. Even I know better than that.

    If you are saying that Solo brought more value for his money than Ian does for his, say that directly so that we don't get sidetracked down such a ridiculous path.
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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Are you just arguing here for the sake of arguing? Because I know you know the game well enough that you cannot possibly be saying that Solo and Ian are the same player playing at the same level and doing everything just as well. Even I know better than that.
    I'm just giving my opinion, it's amazing how much overreaction I get from people even if I'm commenting on freaking Ian Mahinmi, I guess I'm going to have to start trashing Paul George so people can jump in his bandwagon.

    If you are saying that Solo brought more value for his money than Ian does for his, say that directly so that we don't get sidetracked down such a ridiculous path.
    I don't think Solo was as bad as many of people here made him out to be, he to me was pretty decent for the type of money he was making, yes Solo brought more for his value(1.3mil) than Ian is bringing at 4mil, Ian brings a bit more but not as much to pay him 4mil for the next 4 years.

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I would trade Mahinmi and DJ for him and I am a DC hater
    I don't think I'd give up Ian for him. but DJ yeah....

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    It does prove something. It proves that a highlight reel doesn't even feature a SINGLE contested dribble. He puts the ball down on 1-2 plays with nobody between himself and the rim. All the other stuff is created by others, catch at the rim and dunk. On 2 of the PnRs he barely avoids the charge when the defender gets on the line instead of outside the circle.

    This inability to physically adjust with the ball is a fundamental difference between the two players.

    He's a classic long player with decent hops that if you set them up they will make the dunk or make the shot block. Solo is a good shot blocker, but that has as much to do with length and hops as anything. Let him come as the help defender and he's going to get the shot block, but Solo was never close to showing the straight up low post position defense that Ian can do.

    It kills me that the video evidence you go to seems to reinforce the exact points of contention.

    Ian vs Memphis in pre-season, one of the quickest vids I could find. Primarily notice the 2 early low post plays where he puts the ball on the court, contested in the post, and dribble moves his way into a quality score.
    Yep the famous preseason that people don't forget about, those were the times I tell you.......

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    No s*** really? .....
    So you made a post trying to make your point, that doesn't make any point? Nice.

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Exactly. Comments like these are what are making me tune out Vnzla as irrational more than simply having a different opinion.
    Says the guy that his answer to why a player is performing well it's because of PED's.......

    Freaking Solo going off dribble at all, or as consistantly putting up smooth outside jumpers, or in any way looking even 50% as coordinated. It's not even close. And when you look at their first few seasons you see that Ian has been making this natural progression in time and performance while Solo came out and just landed flat at whatever he was in year 1, maybe even declining a bit.
    Yep he declined so much that his best season in his career was at New Orleans after he was a Pacers.......


    Ian is a career .543 shooter vs Solo's .470, and Solo was more of a score at the rim type than Ian. Ian is also a bit bigger than Solo.
    Like I said a bit better than Solo you are still making my point, you are acting like we are comparing Kobe to Sam Young here.

    Ian is coming out of a team-wide shooting slump. If it weren't for the Knicks game he would have trended up to 45% and held it well, with the Portland 6-6 bumping him to 48%. Over the last 6 games he's shot 54%. He's also seen a clear increase in fouls drawn (10, 8, 6 FTA games in last 6 games).

    If he cuts the TOs down and maybe cuts back .5 to 1 foul a game, he's going to be a strong bench big. He's becoming a scoring option of the bench for a team that has no idea what the bench offense should look like.
    If I was rich I could buy an NBA team but I'm not rich........

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    He said a bit bigger than Solo....not a bit better. But don't let that stop you from making your point, whatever it is.
    Ian is a lot better than Solo. Solo was basically if Magnum Rolle had gotten a chance to play in the NBA, which is to say really bad at professional basketball.

    This is like when you would compare Tyler to David West and you would get all kind of evidence against you and say well yes West is better, but that gap isn't that huge, no the gap is that huge, both in comparing Ian to Solomon Jones or comparing Tyler to West.

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yep he declined so much that his best season in his career was at New Orleans after he was a Pacers.......
    He played 11 freaking games for a terrible New Orleans team and then they released him!!! You call that his best season haha?? 11 games isn't even a sample size worth consideration. Prior to that he was waived by LAC and now he is out of the league. You will skew, manipulate, and twist everything to prove your point. The reason posters consistently trump you is b/c facts say otherwise. If anything, his season in NO (which YOU brought up) proves he sucks.

    http://www.nola.com/hornets/index.ss...ecline_to.html

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    He said a bit bigger than Solo....not a bit better. But don't let that stop you from making your point, whatever it is.
    Ian is a lot better than Solo. Solo was basically if Magnum Rolle had gotten a chance to play in the NBA, which is to say really bad at professional basketball.

    This is like when you would compare Tyler to David West and you would get all kind of evidence against you and say well yes West is better, but that gap isn't that huge, no the gap is that huge, both in comparing Ian to Solomon Jones or comparing Tyler to West.
    Anybody would think that I'm comparing Kobe to Sam Young or Gerald Green, yes I said he is better than Solo but not much better as you guys believe, in reality all I'm doing is comparing two dog turds, they are both not that good.

    Here are their career numbers if you care:

    Solo 3.1 PPG 2.4rpg .6 bpg and a shooting percentage of .470

    Ian 4.4ppg 3.2rpg .5 bpg and a shooting percentage of .543

    Yep Ian is SO MUCH BETTER.....
    Last edited by vnzla81; 12-07-2012 at 01:28 PM.

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    He said a bit bigger than Solo....not a bit better. But don't let that stop you from making your point, whatever it is.
    Ian is a lot better than Solo. Solo was basically if Magnum Rolle had gotten a chance to play in the NBA, which is to say really bad at professional basketball.

    This is like when you would compare Tyler to David West and you would get all kind of evidence against you and say well yes West is better, but that gap isn't that huge, no the gap is that huge, both in comparing Ian to Solomon Jones or comparing Tyler to West.
    Yes I was wrong in comparing Tyler to West, I expected Tyler to be better, that still doesn't mean that I'm wrong in comparing Solo to Ian, stop acting like the comparison is out of this world because is not.

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    He played 11 freaking games for a terrible New Orleans team and then they released him!!! You call that his best season haha?? 11 games isn't even a sample size worth consideration. Prior to that he was waived by LAC and now he is out of the league. You will skew, manipulate, and twist everything to prove your point. The reason posters consistently trump you is b/c facts say otherwise. If anything, his season in NO (which YOU brought up) proves he sucks.

    http://www.nola.com/hornets/index.ss...ecline_to.html
    11 games in the real NBA is better than using preseason stuff just saying.....

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    7% difference is shooting percentage is huge. I don't know how to make that clear to you.

    Also when you compare their "best seasons" since you referenced Solo's 11 games with New Orleans as his "best season" earlier, it's not that close either. Just comparing ppg or rpg, it doesn't tell the whole story. Especially in a bench player, efficiency is CRUCIAL, Ian is the much more efficient player simply because he shoots the ball 7 percentage points higher than Solo. That is an improvement of nearly 15% over what Solo does. Even in his "best year" in New Orleans Solo was shooting the ball worse than Ian is shooting it in his worst year so far.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 12-07-2012 at 01:32 PM.

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    11 games in the real NBA is better than using preseason stuff just saying.....
    19 games into the real NBA Ian is way more efficient than Solo ever was...just saying. And that's accounting for a terrible start and a shooting percentage that is right now 10 points worse than his career average.

    Solomon Jones is not even in the NBA right now and couldn't stick on a really bad Hornets team, Ian is playing pretty good basketball right now for a team that is 10-9 and 7-3 over their last 10. No it's not Sam Young vs. Kobe, but it's a pretty big gap. The fact that you can't see that is pretty humorous.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 12-07-2012 at 01:34 PM.

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    a 7% difference makes a player be worth 3mil more mil a year than another player, amazing......



    I'm done with this conversation by the way, I can't believe so many here want to argue about two turds, let's argue about West, Hibbert or Paul George at least those 3 are worth arguing for, I'm out.

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    a 7% difference makes a player be worth 3mil more mil a year than another player, amazing......



    I'm done with this conversation by the way, I can't believe so many here want to argue about two turds, let's argue about West, Hibbert or Paul George at least those 3 are worth arguing for, I'm out.
    You're the one who brought up Solomon Jones didn't you?

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    a 7% difference makes a player be worth 3mil more mil a year than another player, amazing......



    I'm done with this conversation by the way, I can't believe so many here want to argue about two turds, let's argue about West, Hibbert or Paul George at least those 3 are worth arguing for, I'm out.
    7% difference is a big deal. If Kevin Durant shot the ball 7% worse than he does, he'd be Danny Granger and not Kevin Durant. Shooting percentage is a lot more than just a "number". It tells you what kind of shots the player can get, how easily the player can get those shots, how many times a game he is forcing bad shots, there is a lot that goes into that number.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 12-07-2012 at 01:39 PM.

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    We look at this trade of DC and Dahntay for Ian from a Pacers view, so let's look at the trade for DC from a Dallas perspective. Even if DC isn't the starting PG they thought, he's only on a contract for this year, same as Dahntay. They gave up Mahinmi which wasn't really needed. Both will contribute more together for them than Mahinmi would have if they had re-signed him. They basically took a flyer on DC as their PG of the future. If it doesn't workout they aren't out that much. They have 2 expiring contracts they could use in a trade or trades unlike the Pacers who have a 4 year guaranteed contract in Mahinmi. The Mavs aren't stuck with a player, and the salaries of DC and Dahntay aren't part of their salary next year.

    Who knows, maybe they will be able to trade DC for something worthwhile for the future. From Dallas' side they took a flyer on a player who didn't workout. No big loss for them as they'll just go after someone else next year.

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    We look at this trade of DC and Dahntay for Ian from a Pacers view, so let's look at the trade for DC from a Dallas perspective. Even if DC isn't the starting PG they thought, he's only on a contract for this year, same as Dahntay. They gave up Mahinmi which wasn't really needed. Both will contribute more together for them than Mahinmi would have if they had re-signed him. They basically took a flyer on DC as their PG of the future. If it doesn't workout they aren't out that much. They have 2 expiring contracts they could use in a trade or trades unlike the Pacers who have a 4 year guaranteed contract in Mahinmi. The Mavs aren't stuck with a player, and the salaries of DC and Dahntay aren't part of their salary next year.

    Who knows, maybe they will be able to trade DC for something worthwhile for the future. From Dallas' side they took a flyer on a player who didn't workout. No big loss for them as they'll just go after someone else next year.
    They also have a good backup center that is expiring in Wright that only makes 1mil a year and is averaging 8 points and 3 rebounds per game.

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    We look at this trade of DC and Dahntay for Ian from a Pacers view, so let's look at the trade for DC from a Dallas perspective. Even if DC isn't the starting PG they thought, he's only on a contract for this year, same as Dahntay. They gave up Mahinmi which wasn't really needed. Both will contribute more together for them than Mahinmi would have if they had re-signed him. They basically took a flyer on DC as their PG of the future. If it doesn't workout they aren't out that much. They have 2 expiring contracts they could use in a trade or trades unlike the Pacers who have a 4 year guaranteed contract in Mahinmi. The Mavs aren't stuck with a player, and the salaries of DC and Dahntay aren't part of their salary next year.

    Who knows, maybe they will be able to trade DC for something worthwhile for the future. From Dallas' side they took a flyer on a player who didn't workout. No big loss for them as they'll just go after someone else next year.
    No doubt, I completely agree with this. Dallas is going to keep swinging at free agents with cap space til they hit.

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    7% difference is a big deal. If Kevin Durant shot the ball 7% worse than he does, he'd be Danny Granger and not Kevin Durant. Shooting percentage is a lot more than just a "number". It tells you what kind of shots the player can get, how easily the player can get those shots, how many times a game he is forcing bad shots, there is a lot that goes into that number.
    Everyone knows Danny shot the ball like crap last year, and Vnlza wasn't shy about pointing it out either. Danny's FG% last season was 5% worse, than his best shooting season in his career.

    I love it when people pick and choose when something is significant, and when it isn't, based purely on personal opinion.

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I'm done with this conversation by the way, I can't believe so many here want to argue about two turds, let's argue about West, Hibbert or Paul George at least those 3 are worth arguing for, I'm out.
    Dude, this ceased to be about Solo/Ian quite a while ago. This is about people calling you out when you say stuff that you know is ridiculous.

    I quote from here:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...=1#post1539659

    Most of the people on here are trying to have a nice, rational discussion. You've proven you're capable of that. You're as smart as anybody here, but your absolute insistence that you're never ever ever ever ever ever wrong just gives you less credibility, not more.
    That whole conversation's worth a re-read, actually.
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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Dude, this ceased to be about Solo/Ian quite a while ago. This is about people calling you out when you say stuff that you know is ridiculous.

    I quote from here:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...=1#post1539659

    That whole conversation's worth a re-read, actually.
    I think vnzla81 just gets worked up and says things he doesn't mean, using controversy or ridiculous statements for effect. After he says it, he would rather defend it instead of admitting he went too over the top.

    The guy watches a lot of Pacers it seems, he has to know the difference between a scrub that gets waived by bottom dwellers and a career solid back up Center.

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yep the famous preseason that people don't forget about, those were the times I tell you.......
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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yes I was wrong in comparing Tyler to West, I expected Tyler to be better, that still doesn't mean that I'm wrong in comparing Solo to Ian, stop acting like the comparison is out of this world because is not.
    Vnzla, come on! STOP IT!

    For jc's sakes. You are comparing a player that can't even stay in the league, which means he isn't even good enough to be the 15th effing player on any of 31 rosters, to the first big off the bench on what is thought to be a team capable of contending for its conference championship.

    Please tell me that you are not so stubborn that you cannot recognize how ludicrous this seems.

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    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Vnzla, come on! STOP IT!

    For jc's sakes. You are comparing a player that can't even stay in the league, which means he isn't even good enough to be the 15th effing player on any of 31 rosters, to the first big off the bench on what is thought to be a team capable of contending for its conference championship.

    Please tell me that you are not so stubborn that you cannot recognize how ludicrous this seems.
    DJ Augustin is the first point guard off the bench does that make him great? of course not, and just so you know Ian was garbage today with an amazing 2 and 7 in 18 minutes what an amazing player I tell you.

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