Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 134

Thread: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

  1. #51
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    1,078

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And what stopped the Pacers for claiming those guys other than themself? Brand, Scola and Andray would have been way better than Ian, yes two of them are not "true centers" but who cares? by the way I almost forgot about Kmart, he is a free agent and wants to sign for the minimum with anybody.
    I disagree, next to Hansbrough, we need a defensive/rebounding center - these guys are PF's. I liked Scola and Brand though if we moved Hansbrough. Stay away from AB.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to purdue101 For This Useful Post:


  3. #52
    Member aamcguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    West Lafayette
    Age
    23
    Posts
    2,837

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And what stopped the Pacers for claiming those guys other than themself? Brand, Scola and Andray would have been way better than Ian, yes two of them are not "true centers" but who cares? by the way I almost forgot about Kmart, he is a free agent and wants to sign for the minimum with anybody.
    That's why I didn't discount them. I wanted them to go after Brand in particular. But if we would get an obvious PF, it would be to replace Tyler. I think the Pacers clearly wanted a guy who would be able to protect the rim. It makes sense, because typically when somebody gets beat, if the center doesn't rotate over it's a wide open layin. Our PFs have been better this year, but they're no defensive stalwarts.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to aamcguy For This Useful Post:


  5. #53
    The Chef! boombaby1987's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    4,195

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Man I want to see DC be successful. Such a nice guy.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to boombaby1987 For This Useful Post:


  7. #54
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I disagree, next to Hansbrough, we need a defensive/rebounding center - these guys are PF's. I liked Scola and Brand though if we moved Hansbrough. Stay away from AB.
    Defense and rebounding is Kmart and Brand speciality, Ian is decent in D and is not that good of a rebounder for such a big guy, I'm also a Tyler fan but I can care less whatever is best next to Tyler he is not that important.

  8. #55
    Member aamcguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    West Lafayette
    Age
    23
    Posts
    2,837

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Defense and rebounding is Kmart and Brand speciality, Ian is decent in D and is not that good of a rebounder for such a big guy, I'm also a Tyler fan but I can care less whatever is best next to Tyler he is not that important.
    I kind of expect Tyler to play for us on his qualifying offer next year and then the next year we will let him go and replace him with Plumlee, giving us a large and athletic 2nd unit front line.

  9. #56
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I kind of expect Tyler to play for us on his qualifying offer next year and then the next year we will let him go and replace him with Plumlee, giving us a large and athletic 2nd unit front line.
    Yeah I'm not sure about that, I think he is gone.

  10. #57
    Member aamcguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    West Lafayette
    Age
    23
    Posts
    2,837

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yeah I'm not sure about that, I think he is gone.
    You think somebody's gonna offer him something as a RFA? Or do you think we drop his rights purely for monetary purposes? That would give us a little cap flexibility for next year, but not if we intend to resign West or Granger I don't think. I'm curious.

  11. #58
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,563

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Big deal. I would trade them both, together, plus a second round draft choice, for Jarrett Jack.
    Hell yeah. Jarrett Jack was George Hill before we got George Hill. I'd welcome him back with open arms (even if he isn't a "true PG" either).

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I rather get Calderon, a second round pick plus DJ for him can probably do it.
    Unfortunately the money doesn't work. Calderon makes $10.5m, DJ makes $3.5m. Otherwise, yeah it would be Barbosa trade part 2.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to wintermute For This Useful Post:


  13. #59
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,563

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You think somebody's gonna offer him something as a RFA? Or do you think we drop his rights purely for monetary purposes? That would give us a little cap flexibility for next year, but not if we intend to resign West or Granger I don't think. I'm curious.
    I think we drop his rights to use the money elsewhere. Like with DC, we don't HAVE to get rid of his salary for cap reasons, but I think we will choose to in order to keep the overall budget down. I don't really agree with it, but that seems to be the financial parameters we're working under.

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to wintermute For This Useful Post:


  15. #60
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You think somebody's gonna offer him something as a RFA? Or do you think we drop his rights purely for monetary purposes? That would give us a little cap flexibility for next year, but not if we intend to resign West or Granger I don't think. I'm curious.
    I think they are going to try to trade him first and if that doesn't work they would let him go, him making 4mil is not good business.

  16. #61
    Member Eleazar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,591

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You think somebody's gonna offer him something as a RFA? Or do you think we drop his rights purely for monetary purposes? That would give us a little cap flexibility for next year, but not if we intend to resign West or Granger I don't think. I'm curious.
    Unless Hans improves greatly, I doubt the FO will want to pay him $4+ million when we could most likely have a decent back-up PF for much cheaper, possibly even Hans himself.

  17. #62
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Hell yeah. Jarrett Jack was George Hill before we got George Hill. I'd welcome him back with open arms (even if he isn't a "true PG" either).



    Unfortunately the money doesn't work. Calderon makes $10.5m, DJ makes $3.5m. Otherwise, yeah it would be Barbosa trade part 2.
    My trade proposal was not finished, I know that somebody else has to be added to the deal Tyler could probably make it work

  18. #63

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Hell yeah. Jarrett Jack was George Hill before we got George Hill. I'd welcome him back with open arms (even if he isn't a "true PG" either).
    As weird as it is, "true PGs" do not work successfully for the Pacers for the past several years. Tinsley (mostly his fault), Ford (JOB's victim, and some are from injuries as well), DC (he plays like a "true PG" in NO so...) and now DJ. And much weirder is the fact that combo guards don't have problems playing as point. Jack, Hill, and even Lance (debatable if he's really a combo guard) and in some instance AJ have worked quite well.

  19. #64
    Grow some nuts Heisenberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    13,666

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by 15th parallel View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    As weird as it is, "true PGs" do not work successfully for the Pacers for the past several years. Tinsley (mostly his fault), Ford (JOB's victim, and some are from injuries as well), DC (he plays like a "true PG" in NO so...) and now DJ. And much weirder is the fact that combo guards don't have problems playing as point. Jack, Hill, and even Lance (debatable if he's really a combo guard) and in some instance AJ have worked quite well.
    It ain't just us. It's a league wide deal. Name the actual "true PGs" in the NBA right now that're big time pieces of their team. Rondo clearly, CP3, Irving?, Nash if he can get healthy. Who else? It's a different league and different position now. Mark Jacksons don't work anymore.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Heisenberg For This Useful Post:


  21. #65
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,563

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    My trade proposal was not finished, I know that somebody else has to be added to the deal Tyler could probably make it work
    Still doesn't work, unfortunately. In fact, DJ (3.5m), Tyler (3m), and Pendy (1.5m) together still (just) can't salary match Calderon. Not an easy trade to pull off unless we're adding more expensive pieces.

  22. #66
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,563

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It ain't just us. It's a league wide deal. Name the actual "true PGs" in the NBA right now that're big time pieces of their team. Rondo clearly, CP3, Irving?, Nash if he can get healthy. Who else? It's a different league and different position now. Mark Jacksons don't work anymore.
    More like there aren't a lot of Mark Jackson's around, and so the most talented remaining PG-sized players are all combos. Heck, Andre Miller, who's pretty much a modern day Mark Jackson, is still pretty effective at age 36.

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to wintermute For This Useful Post:


  24. #67

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It ain't just us. It's a league wide deal. Name the actual "true PGs" in the NBA right now that're big time pieces of their team. Rondo clearly, CP3, Irving?, Nash if he can get healthy. Who else? It's a different league and different position now. Mark Jacksons don't work anymore.
    Well there's still DWill, Kidd, Rubio and Calderon to name a few. I think the evolution is more on PGs becoming go-to scorers and setting up plays more for themselves as the 1st option (see DRose for example) but they're not necessarily combo guards (my definition of them is that they're naturally SGs that were playing as PG because of their lack of size).

  25. #68
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Free Lance!
    Posts
    8,220

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    More like there aren't a lot of Mark Jackson's around, and so the most talented remaining PG-sized players are all combos. Heck, Andre Miller, who's pretty much a modern day Mark Jackson, is still pretty effective at age 36.
    Interesting. I wonder if that reveals a general decline in basketball culture and savvy. "We just don't build 'em like we used to" kind of thing.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to McKeyFan For This Useful Post:


  27. #69

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Interesting. I wonder if that reveals a general decline in basketball culture and savvy. "We just don't build 'em like we used to" kind of thing.
    It starts at the AAU level IMO. There's some really bad coaching. The players and the league's better than it used to be because of the natural progression of things, but it seems like a lot of the fundamentals of the game aren't being taught like they used to.

  28. #70
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    6,517

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It ain't just us. It's a league wide deal. Name the actual "true PGs" in the NBA right now that're big time pieces of their team. Rondo clearly, CP3, Irving?, Nash if he can get healthy. Who else? It's a different league and different position now. Mark Jacksons don't work anymore.
    Been saying that for like 2 yrs now. Defenses are too good, nd guys are too athletic. Overall the game is just different. I don't think it's a bad thing.

  29. #71
    Member Eleazar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,591

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Interesting. I wonder if that reveals a general decline in basketball culture and savvy. "We just don't build 'em like we used to" kind of thing.
    I think it is less of not building them like we used to and more of an evolution towards iso stars, and away from an actual offense. In general I agree with the decline in basketball culture and savvy.

  30. #72
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,638

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ian's killing it lately, he's playing like he did in preseason. Why are you still down on him? If he continues playing like this he's a bargain.
    Because Vnzla is not rational about these things. Bigs that can drive, hit the midrange jumper (which Vnzla denies), block shots and apply physical strength in the post at both ends are a dime a dozen.

    DC and DJones for Ian looks like a real bargain. Yes, you could have signed Ian and kept DC, but the team wanted to try what appeared to be a better passing PG option. And with DJ it's only a 1 year trial period, which doubles as a small cap clear at the mid-season trade deadline for teams looking to drop salary and reload.


    DJ has been pretty terrible, but even at that rate he's a better passer than DC and does have the potential to at least shoot better than he has been. I'm doubting that he'll find his game this year, but maybe he will. It took Young and Mahinmi about 10 games to start to show signs of comfort.

  31. The Following User Says Thank You to Naptown_Seth For This Useful Post:


  32. #73
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,638

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I kind of expect Tyler to play for us on his qualifying offer next year and then the next year we will let him go and replace him with Plumlee, giving us a large and athletic 2nd unit front line.
    No way they are eating that salary. Even Vnzla would dump him to sign someone like KMart for the same amount.

    Hustling undersized bigs that shoot 40% are available for that price. They won't draw fouls like Tyler, but they'll get the same RebP48, better FG%, better defense, no blocked shots at the rim, etc.

  33. #74
    Droppin' knowledge, yo. Mackey_Rose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    The Dragon's Lair
    Posts
    4,149

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    DC has the athletic ability, he just doesn't have the basketball IQ needed to be a successful point guard in the NBA.

  34. #75
    Member owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,469

    Default Re: 3-pointer: Darren Collison disappoints again. ESPN Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No way they are eating that salary. Even Vnzla would dump him to sign someone like KMart for the same amount.

    Hustling undersized bigs that shoot 40% are available for that price. They won't draw fouls like Tyler, but they'll get the same RebP48, better FG%, better defense, no blocked shots at the rim, etc.
    Tyler defends pretty well. He helped slow down Aldridge. Ultimately I agree though that unless Tyler signs cheap
    he will be gone.
    {o,o}
    |)__)
    -"-"-

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-19-2011, 05:00 PM
  2. Indiana Pacers' Darren Collison exits game with sprained ankle [ESPN]
    By RoboHicks in forum NBA Headlines (RSS Feeds)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-18-2011, 11:10 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-18-2010, 08:00 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-16-2010, 07:50 PM
  5. Pacers pick up options for Darren Collison, Tyler Hansbrough [ESPN]
    By RoboHicks in forum NBA Headlines (RSS Feeds)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-18-2010, 09:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •