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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Where do you rate Kobe all time?

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  • #61
    Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Putting Kobe over Wilt legitimately baffles me.

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

      i don't really understand criteria in these things. in terms of overall achievements? or quality as a player, like who would you draft?

      if it's achievements, then it'd probably have to be

      1. Russell
      2. Kareem
      3. Jordan
      4. Wilt
      5. Magic
      6. Hakeem
      7. Larry
      8. Tim Duncan
      9. Kobe
      10. Moses / Shaq / Dr J

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

        I'm glad to see Duncan making some of these lists... the man goes under the radar as far as how great he is. For some reason, I'll always see him as the young guy playing next to David Robinson... even if he is in his mid- to late-30s.

        Another controversial opinion alert: I don't know what it is, but I just can't really give LeBron credit for being much more than a freak athlete and incredible scorer. Maybe that alone puts him in these lists, but regardless, I feel like he needs to average a triple double or something do something outstanding to really stand out amongst the legends that we all agree deserve to be in the top 10 greatest... Kobe carried the Lakers to championships, 81pts, etc. Tim Duncan was the foundation of an incredible era thus putting a franchise on the map for the better half of two decades... LeBron has a couple MVP trophies and a championship-- Steve Nash just needs one ring to have a resume that's almost as good, and I doubt we'd say he deserves the list...

        I'm aware of a lot of LeBron hating, but I'm really apathetic towards him at this point, so I'm not saying this because I hate him and am denying his abilities... I just don't see the X-Factor in LBJ that was clearly evident in Kobe, Magic, Jordan, Bird, etc.

        Kobe, in my opinion, should rank somewhere just above Hakeem...

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

          Here is how I would go:

          1. Bill Russell- 11 rights, are you kidding me? And before anyone says "hey, he was on great teams", every team to win a ring has more than 1 player playing greant and Bill Russell was the only person on all 11 teams.
          2. Michael Jordan
          3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
          4. Wilt Chamberlain
          5. Oscar Robertson
          6. Shaquille Oneal- sorry, Kobe is great, but was never near as dominant as Shaq
          7. Magic Johnson
          8. Kobe Bryant
          9. Tim Duncan
          10 Larry Bird
          11. Hakeem Olajuwon
          12. Karl Malone
          13. Julius Erving
          14. Scottie Pippen
          15. Kevin McHale

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

            Originally posted by PacersandIU View Post
            I'm glad to see Duncan making some of these lists... the man goes under the radar as far as how great he is. For some reason, I'll always see him as the young guy playing next to David Robinson... even if he is in his mid- to late-30s.

            Another controversial opinion alert: I don't know what it is, but I just can't really give LeBron credit for being much more than a freak athlete and incredible scorer. Maybe that alone puts him in these lists, but regardless, I feel like he needs to average a triple double or something do something outstanding to really stand out amongst the legends that we all agree deserve to be in the top 10 greatest... Kobe carried the Lakers to championships, 81pts, etc. Tim Duncan was the foundation of an incredible era thus putting a franchise on the map for the better half of two decades... LeBron has a couple MVP trophies and a championship-- Steve Nash just needs one ring to have a resume that's almost as good, and I doubt we'd say he deserves the list...

            I'm aware of a lot of LeBron hating, but I'm really apathetic towards him at this point, so I'm not saying this because I hate him and am denying his abilities... I just don't see the X-Factor in LBJ that was clearly evident in Kobe, Magic, Jordan, Bird, etc.

            Kobe, in my opinion, should rank somewhere just above Hakeem...
            LeBron is also only about halfway done with his career though. He still has time to get there. Then again I don't see the "X-Factor" in Kobe.

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

              Originally posted by joew8302 View Post
              Here is how I would go:

              1. Bill Russell- 11 rights, are you kidding me? And before anyone says "hey, he was on great teams", every team to win a ring has more than 1 player playing greant and Bill Russell was the only person on all 11 teams.
              2. Michael Jordan
              3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
              4. Wilt Chamberlain
              5. Oscar Robertson
              6. Shaquille Oneal- sorry, Kobe is great, but was never near as dominant as Shaq
              7. Magic Johnson
              8. Kobe Bryant
              9. Tim Duncan
              10 Larry Bird
              11. Hakeem Olajuwon
              12. Karl Malone
              13. Julius Erving
              14. Scottie Pippen
              15. Kevin McHale
              Kobe over Duncan, Bird, and Hakeem?

              Comment


              • #67
                I think Kobe is an all time great player, but not an all time legend. This group would consist of Jordan, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, and Bird. All time greats include players like Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Olajuwon, etc. If Kobe gets another ring, then he can be considered for legend status.


                Sent from #PacerNation using Tapatalk
                Senior at the University of Louisville.
                Greenfield ---> The Ville

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                  I'm surprised Oscar is so high on some of the lists.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                    Originally posted by Doddage View Post
                    Kobe over Duncan, Bird, and Hakeem?
                    Sure, why not? If you look at a lot of statistics, clutchness and rights Kobe compares very favorably to those three.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                      Originally posted by PacersandIU View Post
                      I'm glad to see Duncan making some of these lists... the man goes under the radar as far as how great he is. For some reason, I'll always see him as the young guy playing next to David Robinson... even if he is in his mid- to late-30s.

                      Another controversial opinion alert: I don't know what it is, but I just can't really give LeBron credit for being much more than a freak athlete and incredible scorer. Maybe that alone puts him in these lists, but regardless, I feel like he needs to average a triple double or something do something outstanding to really stand out amongst the legends that we all agree deserve to be in the top 10 greatest... Kobe carried the Lakers to championships, 81pts, etc. Tim Duncan was the foundation of an incredible era thus putting a franchise on the map for the better half of two decades... LeBron has a couple MVP trophies and a championship-- Steve Nash just needs one ring to have a resume that's almost as good, and I doubt we'd say he deserves the list...

                      I'm aware of a lot of LeBron hating, but I'm really apathetic towards him at this point, so I'm not saying this because I hate him and am denying his abilities... I just don't see the X-Factor in LBJ that was clearly evident in Kobe, Magic, Jordan, Bird, etc.

                      Kobe, in my opinion, should rank somewhere just above Hakeem...
                      On LeBron, it's still too early to say. But there is the potential to be an All-time great. He has proven that in his years with Cleveland. And he has shown that in just a few years in Miami. And most of the legends are known to be freak athletes anyway (Jordan, Wilt, Magic Kareem just to name a few).

                      On Kobe, in his 3 championships he wasn't even the best player. In his last 2 championships, I even consider Pau to be almost as good as Kobe. He's an elite SG, sure. But considering all the players within his generation, there are more players that I consider better than him, so in my list it's really hard for him to crack top 10 considering all generations of NBA players. And Kobe is no better than Hakeem for me.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                        How are you guys judging? Is it by the overall career, or by how good the person was in their prime? I don't think the top 10 can be ranked. The differences in the game are to large from decade to decade. There is no way to know how players really stacked up against each other.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                          Originally posted by hackashaq View Post
                          I'm surprised Oscar is so high on some of the lists.
                          He tends to get more love from Hoosiers than people outside of Indiana. Most of us are amazed that he was able to average a triple double. He averaged 12 free throw attempts in one season, and averaged 10 or more FTA all throughout the 60's. Statistically there really aren't many, if any, players who compare to him. He played before they kept track of blocks and steals, so who knows how well he stacks up in those categories. His legend gets held back though because of his lack of championships and MVPs (he had 1 of each), but because Wilt and Russell dominated those two categories while he played. It is kind of like being a SG during the 90's. You could have been the second best SG of all-time, but you weren't Jordan so it didn't matter.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                            Originally posted by Eddie Gill View Post
                            Maybe one of the old-timers on here can set me straight, because I just don't get Wilt being a top 5 player all time.
                            Let's put it this way. The league changed their rules to try to keep Wilt from completely dominating the game - and failed. Many of the other players you mentioned had rules overlooked (see Shaq: Charge and Ewing: Travel) because of their perceived greatness.
                            BillS

                            A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                            Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                              Originally posted by hackashaq View Post
                              I'm surprised Oscar is so high on some of the lists.
                              Oscar was by far the biggest and best point guard of his time. He averaged a triple double one season. He was a complete player and only because of Magic Johnson is he not in the top five..... ...

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                                Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
                                Putting Kobe over Wilt legitimately baffles me.
                                I think putting just about anyone over Wilt would baffle me. I do it with Jordan but if both were coming out of the same draft, I would take Wilt over Jordan. Most people will disagree with that but Wilt could do anything he wanted to do and he was the greatest rebounder of all time. He would be a different player in the modern game but he was an athlete that could do it. Wilt could run the floor like no other center ever whenever he wanted to do it. He as a great passer and he led the league in assists at least once. Defensively, no one (including Dwight Howard and Shaq) would come close to him. If they had kept stats on blocks then, that record would be out of reach. ... Wilt was not allowed to enter the NBA until his college class graduated. He could have played right out of high school with the same results. Think about adding another 15,000 or so points to his record. Kareem would have scored more too but not as many as Wilt.... ...
                                Last edited by OlBlu; 12-07-2012, 11:54 AM.

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