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Thread: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

  1. #51
    Step aside, King James BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Gill View Post
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    Controversial opinion alert: Wilt Chamberlain is overrated. In interest of full-disclosure, I never saw the man play - way before my time (like, I presume many others in this thread). I would merely suggest that had he played in an era with Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, even a guy like Ewing, many of these All-Time Greatest lists might look very different. He was a 7'2 giant playing in an era when the average height of a starting center was 6'7. Also, any list with Russell over Wilt is nonsensical. I understand the argument that Russell played on vastly superior teams, but 9 championships to 2 pretty much speaks for itself.

    Maybe one of the old-timers on here can set me straight, because I just don't get Wilt being a top 5 player all time.
    You can go on Youtube and see Chamberlain. I saw him in the early 70's and believe he was clearly better than Kareem. A lot more physical and athletic. He was like a bigger and much more skilled Dwight Howard. If he played in the 90's during the big man era, he would totally dominate Ewing. He would be better than the other centers with Hakeem, Kareem and a young Shaq coming in 2nd, 3rd and 4th.

    Edit: people who never saw Wilt play may not realize how mobile he was. Ewing was nowhere near his level. Imagine LeBron James with about 5 more inches. No, not quite that mobile. But he was a track star before he played basketball and was extremely athletic.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 12-06-2012 at 08:28 PM.

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  3. #52

    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Kobe will probably be in my top 10...probably. But not in my top 5. Yeah his numbers were great. He had a lot of those big moments. He's competitive and has one of the best work ethic and dedication since the draftees of the 80s. Has 5 rings. Has an MVP and 2 finals MVPs (don't remember about all-star games).

    But on his first 3 championships he wasn't even the best player. On the last 2 championship runs I can even argue that he's just a bit better than Pau Gasol. And he only won one MVP for a reason. His best was always below Duncan's, KG's, Shaq's Lebrons, even Kidd's (even though he didn't win one MVP) and Nash. His scoring prowess will always be one of the best we have ever seen, but he was not even the best player for most of the time in the league.

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    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Once you get past Wilt, Oscar and Jordan, the next 20-25 are pretty equal. Kobe is in that group.

  5. #54

    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    It's amazing what likeability can do for a player in these rankings.

    And MJ ought to feel lucky he didn't play in this era for that reason.

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  7. #55
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    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    And MJ ought to feel lucky he didn't play in this era for that reason.
    Please. No hand checking? MJ would have a field day with the likes of every defender in this league.

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  9. #56

    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Kobe is the ultimate hero ball player. Yes he is amazingly talented, but he has made so many bad decisions over the course of his career. I never want him to touch the ball in the last 2 minutes of a game and with good reason. He won many games in the last few minutes for the Lakers, yet I always think that maybe he wouldn't have needed to if he had just played better before the end.

    He is the epitome of a player you do not want your kid to emulate on offense. You wish your kid had his skills and repertoire, but wish he wasn't so dumb half the time. He just happens to make it work half of the time because he is Kobe.

    There are so many variables to judging players; teammates he played with, era, position, his #s vs team wins. Ultimately, as long as he is in the top 20 or so, I don't see the point of arguing over a few places because people have different criteria to judge.

    The only thing I want to say is that Lebron is the most talented player I have ever seen. Maybe not the "best" if you judge that by rings or something else. I didn't see a lot of older players since I am young, yet I know if I had to start a team with someone in their prime I would pick Lebron 10 times out of 10. That is me personally, but that is the only thing I am sure about as far as ranking players in my mind.

  10. #57

    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    You guys make it sound as if the best players didn't have superstars surrounding them :/. No one has ever won solo

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    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    I never really saw Magic and Bird play in their primes. Kobe is the second best I have ever seen, behind MJ. I put him above all the great 90's superstars Malone/Barkley/Ewing/Stockton etc.

    The one guy I have way up on lists, higher than most, is Hakeem. I could watch Hakeem play all day. My all time favorite guy to watch other than Reginald.

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    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
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    You guys make it sound as if the best players didn't have superstars surrounding them :/. No one has ever won solo
    Please tell me who is a top 30 player on the mavs roster when they won a title.

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    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Try this list on for size. I don't have Kobe in the top-10, and I don't necessarily see James making the top-ten either. Neither of them were centers, and there are already too many non-C's on this list for my taste...

    1. Wilt
    2. Oscar
    3. Magic
    4. Bird
    5. Russell
    6. Jordan
    7. Shaq
    8. Kareem
    9. Duncan
    10. Olajuwan
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  16. #61
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    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Putting Kobe over Wilt legitimately baffles me.

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  18. #62

    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    i don't really understand criteria in these things. in terms of overall achievements? or quality as a player, like who would you draft?

    if it's achievements, then it'd probably have to be

    1. Russell
    2. Kareem
    3. Jordan
    4. Wilt
    5. Magic
    6. Hakeem
    7. Larry
    8. Tim Duncan
    9. Kobe
    10. Moses / Shaq / Dr J

  19. #63

    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    I'm glad to see Duncan making some of these lists... the man goes under the radar as far as how great he is. For some reason, I'll always see him as the young guy playing next to David Robinson... even if he is in his mid- to late-30s.

    Another controversial opinion alert: I don't know what it is, but I just can't really give LeBron credit for being much more than a freak athlete and incredible scorer. Maybe that alone puts him in these lists, but regardless, I feel like he needs to average a triple double or something do something outstanding to really stand out amongst the legends that we all agree deserve to be in the top 10 greatest... Kobe carried the Lakers to championships, 81pts, etc. Tim Duncan was the foundation of an incredible era thus putting a franchise on the map for the better half of two decades... LeBron has a couple MVP trophies and a championship-- Steve Nash just needs one ring to have a resume that's almost as good, and I doubt we'd say he deserves the list...

    I'm aware of a lot of LeBron hating, but I'm really apathetic towards him at this point, so I'm not saying this because I hate him and am denying his abilities... I just don't see the X-Factor in LBJ that was clearly evident in Kobe, Magic, Jordan, Bird, etc.

    Kobe, in my opinion, should rank somewhere just above Hakeem...

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    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Here is how I would go:

    1. Bill Russell- 11 rights, are you kidding me? And before anyone says "hey, he was on great teams", every team to win a ring has more than 1 player playing greant and Bill Russell was the only person on all 11 teams.
    2. Michael Jordan
    3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
    4. Wilt Chamberlain
    5. Oscar Robertson
    6. Shaquille Oneal- sorry, Kobe is great, but was never near as dominant as Shaq
    7. Magic Johnson
    8. Kobe Bryant
    9. Tim Duncan
    10 Larry Bird
    11. Hakeem Olajuwon
    12. Karl Malone
    13. Julius Erving
    14. Scottie Pippen
    15. Kevin McHale

  21. #65
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    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersandIU View Post
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    I'm glad to see Duncan making some of these lists... the man goes under the radar as far as how great he is. For some reason, I'll always see him as the young guy playing next to David Robinson... even if he is in his mid- to late-30s.

    Another controversial opinion alert: I don't know what it is, but I just can't really give LeBron credit for being much more than a freak athlete and incredible scorer. Maybe that alone puts him in these lists, but regardless, I feel like he needs to average a triple double or something do something outstanding to really stand out amongst the legends that we all agree deserve to be in the top 10 greatest... Kobe carried the Lakers to championships, 81pts, etc. Tim Duncan was the foundation of an incredible era thus putting a franchise on the map for the better half of two decades... LeBron has a couple MVP trophies and a championship-- Steve Nash just needs one ring to have a resume that's almost as good, and I doubt we'd say he deserves the list...

    I'm aware of a lot of LeBron hating, but I'm really apathetic towards him at this point, so I'm not saying this because I hate him and am denying his abilities... I just don't see the X-Factor in LBJ that was clearly evident in Kobe, Magic, Jordan, Bird, etc.

    Kobe, in my opinion, should rank somewhere just above Hakeem...
    LeBron is also only about halfway done with his career though. He still has time to get there. Then again I don't see the "X-Factor" in Kobe.

  22. #66

    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Here is how I would go:

    1. Bill Russell- 11 rights, are you kidding me? And before anyone says "hey, he was on great teams", every team to win a ring has more than 1 player playing greant and Bill Russell was the only person on all 11 teams.
    2. Michael Jordan
    3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
    4. Wilt Chamberlain
    5. Oscar Robertson
    6. Shaquille Oneal- sorry, Kobe is great, but was never near as dominant as Shaq
    7. Magic Johnson
    8. Kobe Bryant
    9. Tim Duncan
    10 Larry Bird
    11. Hakeem Olajuwon
    12. Karl Malone
    13. Julius Erving
    14. Scottie Pippen
    15. Kevin McHale
    Kobe over Duncan, Bird, and Hakeem?

  23. #67
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    I think Kobe is an all time great player, but not an all time legend. This group would consist of Jordan, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, and Bird. All time greats include players like Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Olajuwon, etc. If Kobe gets another ring, then he can be considered for legend status.


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  24. #68

    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    I'm surprised Oscar is so high on some of the lists.

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    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doddage View Post
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    Kobe over Duncan, Bird, and Hakeem?
    Sure, why not? If you look at a lot of statistics, clutchness and rights Kobe compares very favorably to those three.

  26. #70

    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersandIU View Post
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    I'm glad to see Duncan making some of these lists... the man goes under the radar as far as how great he is. For some reason, I'll always see him as the young guy playing next to David Robinson... even if he is in his mid- to late-30s.

    Another controversial opinion alert: I don't know what it is, but I just can't really give LeBron credit for being much more than a freak athlete and incredible scorer. Maybe that alone puts him in these lists, but regardless, I feel like he needs to average a triple double or something do something outstanding to really stand out amongst the legends that we all agree deserve to be in the top 10 greatest... Kobe carried the Lakers to championships, 81pts, etc. Tim Duncan was the foundation of an incredible era thus putting a franchise on the map for the better half of two decades... LeBron has a couple MVP trophies and a championship-- Steve Nash just needs one ring to have a resume that's almost as good, and I doubt we'd say he deserves the list...

    I'm aware of a lot of LeBron hating, but I'm really apathetic towards him at this point, so I'm not saying this because I hate him and am denying his abilities... I just don't see the X-Factor in LBJ that was clearly evident in Kobe, Magic, Jordan, Bird, etc.

    Kobe, in my opinion, should rank somewhere just above Hakeem...
    On LeBron, it's still too early to say. But there is the potential to be an All-time great. He has proven that in his years with Cleveland. And he has shown that in just a few years in Miami. And most of the legends are known to be freak athletes anyway (Jordan, Wilt, Magic Kareem just to name a few).

    On Kobe, in his 3 championships he wasn't even the best player. In his last 2 championships, I even consider Pau to be almost as good as Kobe. He's an elite SG, sure. But considering all the players within his generation, there are more players that I consider better than him, so in my list it's really hard for him to crack top 10 considering all generations of NBA players. And Kobe is no better than Hakeem for me.

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  28. #71
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    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    How are you guys judging? Is it by the overall career, or by how good the person was in their prime? I don't think the top 10 can be ranked. The differences in the game are to large from decade to decade. There is no way to know how players really stacked up against each other.

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    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    I'm surprised Oscar is so high on some of the lists.
    He tends to get more love from Hoosiers than people outside of Indiana. Most of us are amazed that he was able to average a triple double. He averaged 12 free throw attempts in one season, and averaged 10 or more FTA all throughout the 60's. Statistically there really aren't many, if any, players who compare to him. He played before they kept track of blocks and steals, so who knows how well he stacks up in those categories. His legend gets held back though because of his lack of championships and MVPs (he had 1 of each), but because Wilt and Russell dominated those two categories while he played. It is kind of like being a SG during the 90's. You could have been the second best SG of all-time, but you weren't Jordan so it didn't matter.

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    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Gill View Post
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    Maybe one of the old-timers on here can set me straight, because I just don't get Wilt being a top 5 player all time.
    Let's put it this way. The league changed their rules to try to keep Wilt from completely dominating the game - and failed. Many of the other players you mentioned had rules overlooked (see Shaq: Charge and Ewing: Travel) because of their perceived greatness.
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    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    I'm surprised Oscar is so high on some of the lists.
    Oscar was by far the biggest and best point guard of his time. He averaged a triple double one season. He was a complete player and only because of Magic Johnson is he not in the top five..... ...

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    Default Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Putting Kobe over Wilt legitimately baffles me.
    I think putting just about anyone over Wilt would baffle me. I do it with Jordan but if both were coming out of the same draft, I would take Wilt over Jordan. Most people will disagree with that but Wilt could do anything he wanted to do and he was the greatest rebounder of all time. He would be a different player in the modern game but he was an athlete that could do it. Wilt could run the floor like no other center ever whenever he wanted to do it. He as a great passer and he led the league in assists at least once. Defensively, no one (including Dwight Howard and Shaq) would come close to him. If they had kept stats on blocks then, that record would be out of reach. ... Wilt was not allowed to enter the NBA until his college class graduated. He could have played right out of high school with the same results. Think about adding another 15,000 or so points to his record. Kareem would have scored more too but not as many as Wilt.... ...
    Last edited by OlBlu; 12-07-2012 at 10:54 AM.

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