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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    First let me start off with stating the obvious, going 2-1 on a West Coast swing is a good thing. I didn’t get a chance to fire off one of these last night so I don’t want the fact that we lost tonight & I will be complaining take away from the fact that I do consider this a successful road trip.

    We haven’t turned the corner as a team yet but you can certainly start to see some improvement from where we were just 3 weeks ago.

    Now having said that let’s deal with tonight’s loss.

    The Warriors are actually pretty good. In the long run I don’t see them leading the Pacific but who knows with some of those teams out there. They have a really good back court & while they still need some more size up front they have at least started to play a far more physical game than they used to. You can thank Mark Jackson for that.

    Honestly being the second night of a back to back I’m not surprised we lost and actually even though I can’t say we played particularly well I will say if Jack had not had the incredible shooting night he did I think we could have pulled this one out. But then again maybe not, can’t live off of what ifs. He did get hot and they pulled away.

    Again I am not blaming the entire loss on this but once again Frank played the bench as a unit in the first and let the get behind on a G.S. 10-0 run before he did anything. The starters had the lead but once they lost the lead I think we battled back to take a one time two point lead but that was it. He has got to stop using them as a unit or if he must he has to realize right away when they get behind a 6-0 run he has got to stop it.

    Now to their credit they played very well in the 3rd when the starters just didn’t bring it so there is that.

    I think David West was just gassed and sadly right now we have to depend on him for almost 40 min. a night as on the W.C. trip Tyler has just been horrid. His shot is not falling and every since we have come out west his lack of vertical has really been exposed more than normal.

    Also it is very apparent that Frank has a very short tolerance for Lance Stephenson. Lance made a mistake by not being ready for a pass that West threw to him causing a turn over and he also showed up late on a couple of defensive assignments and that was the night for him. I have no problem with that btw as long as he does that with most of the other players, but let’s just say that our other wing player is not held to the same standard and frankly tonight did not deserve to play one min. more than Lance.

    Also just for an interesting bit of trivia for tonight. Miles Plumlee drafted at 26 was not dressed to play tonight (it was his turn to not play) and Festus Ezeli drafted at 30 started for the Warriors. Don’t get me wrong Mahinmi played well tonight, I thought anyway, but man wouldn’t it have been nice to have that big bruiser waiting in the wings?

    Let’s just do grades for tonight.

    David West: A
    He is still living some off of that A+++ game from Sacramento. But you could tell he didn’t have his legs totally under him tonight but even with that he still led us in points, rebounds, steals and tied for the lead in assist. What more can you ask from the guy? I’m sure he would have liked to have gotten any help at all from someone beyond Hill & Roy but alas it wasn’t to be. While these are game to game reviews I want to say that West has stepped up and played large & in charge on this W/C swing.

    Paul George: F-
    His trade value will never be higher.
    I was tempted to just leave it at that but his game is so putrid right now that I feel the need to add this. I never want to hear another word about moving Granger so Paul George can play his natural position of small forward. I knew at the time his 37 point game was pyrite and I said so after the game. Will he get better? Well frankly he has to, I don’t know if it’s possible to play worse. Hell Roy in his worst games of the season still somehow scored a point. He’s starting to make me miss Brandon Rush and I don’t even like Brandon Rush. Here’s a fun fact, he has now played in 17 games and has only shot a total of 33 free throws.

    Roy Hibbert: B+
    Very solid defensive game from Roy. He also did fairly well from the field and hit 3 of his 4 free throws. His rebounding might have been a little better but the danger of playing a team like the Warriors is that a lot of their shots go long so that kind of negates interior position. If we could have gotten anything at all from George Roy’s game was good enough to win. But when your small forward position nets you 8 points (all by the backup) everybody else is going to have to play above average. Well Roy defended slightly above average but his offense was just average.

    Lance Stephenson: C
    Started the game out great and even as bad as his night ended up it was still better that Paul George’s craptastic game. He made a couple of mental errors and Frank pulled him. I think he was hoping that lightning would strike again & Young would not only defend well but have another amazing scoring night. Didn’t happen and Lance was, IMO, needlessly benched. Still learning to move without the ball and I think that is probably going to be very hard to learn for him but he is getting better.

    George Hill: A-
    Just ran out of gas at the end. He could not keep up with the fresh Jack and then the refreshed Curry. Had a great night from behind the arc and almost brought us back in the game but I just think he didn’t have anything left.

    Tyler Hansbrough: F
    He also was scoreless but at least he only played 11 min. and frankly being a bench player isn’t expected to bring at least 14 points a night to the floor. Is that to much to ask of Paul btw? Just bring 14 points to the game on a nightly basis; I’ve given up on the 20ppg that we all thought might be there so how about just reaching double figures? Anyway Tyler has had a horrific W/C swing and he has got to get to playing better because West will not be able to keep up these kind of min. Maybe seeing Carlos Boozer will light a fire under him.

    Ian Mahinmi: B+
    We are finally starting to see what we saw in the pre-season from Ian. He fouls to much but I think we are just going to have to get used to that from him. He is doing a decent job of protecting the rim and while I’d like to see him get more active on the boards he at least has been playing offense like he means it lately. 6 of 8 from the line is a blessing. Again he played well enough from his position to win this game, if only he could have gotten some help from his small forward.

    Gerald Green: B
    Not the greatest defensive exhibition you will ever see but it was good enough. His shooting was solid and he was doing work on the board. In fact you could say that he played well enough from his position for us to have won the game. If only he could have gotten some help from his starter.

    Sam Young: C+
    Deducting some points for not hitting enough shots. However let’s be honest here if you are really needing him to hit his shots to give you a chance to win your likelihood of winning is not great anyway. Decent defense as always and hustle as always. But since I didn’t get to comment on his Kings game I’ll give him a little break on this game.

    D.J. Augustin: C+
    Honestly just too short for Jack. He couldn’t do anything with him because Jarrett would just pull up and nail the jumper right over him. But I still wonder why with his size he doesn’t try to press the dribbler and get the ball out of their hands. Decent from the field and he made good passes to get people good shots but they just flat out missed them. Still once again we are only able to get Hill 11 min. of rest for the game; I have real doubts about if George ever gets injured.

    No real shame in losing the game but there is one player who should be ashamed of the game he played. Again good west coast trip and now we can come home for a day and get ready to face the Bulls.



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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    God I love that movie. That's all I have to add.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Idk how I feel about this whole age excuse. PG has been in the league, receiving consistent minutes since the second half of his first yr. Yes he's improved, but it's been steady, smaller improvements. It's not the fact that he doesn't score 20ppg that pisses ppl off, it's the fact that he has times where he plays like he doesn't care. Thompson is the same age and has been in the league a yr less than PG, and he doesn't seem to be struggling to look to shoot or score.

    Many of the better players in this league are extremely young. SO I don't buy the "it's because he's young" bit. His defense has been inconsistent this year as well. More than a few players have scored on Paul pretty easily. If he's not playing good defense, then at this point he's an average to below average starter, because his J is inconsistent, he can't create his own shot, and he can often times be lazy.

    We dont fully know what we have in PG at this point, but if he's going to continue to be so inconsistent, he needs to be on a short leash in the same way that Lance is. Lance's inconsistent play stems from being too aggressive, Paul is the opposite.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Thompson is the same age and has been in the league a yr less than PG, and he doesn't seem to be struggling to look to shoot or score.
    Thompson scored 4 points in 2/8 shooting (in 23 minutes) against OKC earlier this season.

    Thompson also scored 2 points in 1/6 shooting (in 22 minutes) against Utah last season.

    Gordon Hayward scored 4 points in 1/8 shooting (in 27 minutes) against Denver this season.

    He also scored 4 points in 1/10 shooting (in 33 minutes) against San Antonio in Game 3 of the SAS vs Utah playoff series.

    He scored 0 points in 0/7 shooting (in 25 minutes) in Game 4 of the same series.

    He also had several low scoring games during the last season.

    The point is that it is natural for those guys to have some low scoring games. It's also natural to have some big scoring nights. They will be more consistent as they mature.

    One thing I noticed while searching basketball-reference.com for their games was that Klay Thompson seemed to be less prone to low scoring nights. But if you look at their career numbers it makes absolute sense.

    Klay Thompson is averaging 11.8 FGAs per game in his career. 4.6 of those are 3 point shots. He is averaging 15.6 FGAs this season. 6.8 of those are 3 point shots.

    Gordon Hayward is averaging 6.9 FGAs per game in his career. 1.9 of those are 3 point shots. He is averaging 11.1 FGAs this season. 3.3 of those are 3 point shots.

    Paul George is averaging 8.7 FGAs per game in his career. 3.2 of those are 3 point shots. He is averaging 13.5 FGAs this season. 5.3 of those are 3 point shots.

    So, it's pretty natural that Thompson is scoring more because he's also shooting more. He also posts the highest Usage Rate of the 3. His career USG% is 24.5%. PG's career USG% is 19.2% and Hayward's is 17.7%.

    So, why is he shooting more than the other 2? Well, it's quite simple, really.

    Golden State runs a perimeter-oriented system. Utah and Indiana run post-heavy offenses.

    So, it's quite natural that Klay attempts (and hits) more shots than the other two. He has the green light to do so.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    What do you think about Ian playing the back up four when west needs a break if Tyler isn't playing that good on certain nights? I like the idea of Roy and Ian next to each other defensively. Ian doesn't bring the offensive game West brings obviously but it's slightly better than Tyler's hoping he gets fouled offense. I know we tried it in the pre season but I'd really like to try it now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller_time04 View Post
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    What do you think about Ian playing the back up four when west needs a break if Tyler isn't playing that good on certain nights? I like the idea of Roy and Ian next to each other defensively. Ian doesn't bring the offensive game West brings obviously but it's slightly better than Tyler's hoping he gets fouled offense. I know we tried it in the pre season but I'd really like to try it now.
    I'm not sure.

    I like the idea but at the end of the day Ian has to be able to give Roy some breathing time on the bench and he fouls so frequently now that I'm not sure he could play another position without fouling out.

    However when Tyler plays like this, fortunately he has not played like this all season long, my answer would be sure why not.


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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller_time04 View Post
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    What do you think about Ian playing the back up four when west needs a break if Tyler isn't playing that good on certain nights? I like the idea of Roy and Ian next to each other defensively. Ian doesn't bring the offensive game West brings obviously but it's slightly better than Tyler's hoping he gets fouled offense. I know we tried it in the pre season but I'd really like to try it now.
    Is it me or is it that Vogel hasn't played Mahinmi with Hibbert that much together?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Is it me or is it that Vogel hasn't played Mahinmi with Hibbert that much together?
    I don't think he has at all really in the regular season. I'd like to at least try it out.


    But yeah I'd love for Paul to average 14/8/3/2 steals while being a defensive stopper.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Also just for an interesting bit of trivia for tonight. Miles Plumlee drafted at 26 was not dressed to play tonight (it was his turn to not play) and Festus Ezeli drafted at 30 started for the Warriors. Don’t get me wrong Mahinmi played well tonight, I thought anyway, but man wouldn’t it have been nice to have that big bruiser waiting in the wings?
    We do have that big bruiser. He's called Miles Plumlee. We just don't play him.

    The Warriors are forced to play Ezeli. Their starting Center (Bogut) is injured and their back-up Center (Biedrins) is sucking donkey *** the last 2-3 years. So, they're out of options.

    Don't get me wrong, Ezeli is playing good. He's in my fantasy team for a reason

    But I'm quite confident that if Miles got the same chances that Ezeli is getting he would play just as good.

    However, I'm happy to have a healthy starting Center and a good back-up unlike them

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    We do have that big bruiser. He's called Miles Plumlee. We just don't play him.

    The Warriors are forced to play Ezeli. Their starting Center (Bogut) is injured and their back-up Center (Biedrins) is sucking donkey *** the last 2-3 years. So, they're out of options.

    Don't get me wrong, Ezeli is playing good. He's in my fantasy team for a reason

    But I'm quite confident that if Miles got the same chances that Ezeli is getting he would play just as good.

    However, I'm happy to have a healthy starting Center and a good back-up unlike them
    I have to agree with this......I was sitting behind the bench and was scanning the bench for Plumlee sitting in a suit and didn't see him. But I think that Vogel sees Plumlee as a Center...and that role is filled by Mahinmi. I'd have ZERO problem having Plumlee taking Hansbrough's minutes if he's not doing anything....but from the few garbage minutes that I have seen him play.....I liked what I saw...he's active, has length and far more athletic than anyone on else on the Team.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    If anyone actually expected 20 points per game from him, I have only sympathy for Paul.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
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    If anyone actually expected 20 points per game from him, I have only sympathy for Paul.
    I would have been happy with him just scoring 12 points.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I would have been happy with him just scoring 12 points.

    As you're alluding to those 12 points, they would have won the game.

    Sorry, but I thought PG's "D" was terrible. He was AWOL in this game. It's this type of tripe from PG that Peck's comment "his trade value will never be higher" has me really thinking about it.

    I've said from day ONE PG was drafted to replace BRush. As Peck stated It's obvious SF isn't his position nor is he Granger's future replacement. For those that still think PG is, they had better wake up and see the reality he isn't. Look for the Pacers to draft or trade for Granger's replacement as that replacement isn't currently on the Pacers roster.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
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    If anyone actually expected 20 points per game from him, I have only sympathy for Paul.
    In an interview last year, Paul said his goal was to break the Pacers all time scoring record.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    In an interview last year, Paul said his goal was to break the Pacers all time scoring record.
    Slow and steady wins the race?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    In an interview last year, Paul said his goal was to break the Pacers all time scoring record.
    Brandon Rush said he wanted to be the next Reggie. Doesn't mean I expected him to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
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    If anyone actually expected 20 points per game from him, I have only sympathy for Paul.
    But is it too much to ask that my starting SF scores 1 point?

    F*** is Paul frustrating to watch.
    Stop quoting people I have on ignore!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Paul George: F-
    His trade value will never be higher.
    I was tempted to just leave it at that but his game is so putrid right now that I feel the need to add this. I never want to hear another word about moving Granger so Paul George can play his natural position of small forward. I knew at the time his 37 point game was pyrite and I said so after the game. Will he get better? Well frankly he has to, I don’t know if it’s possible to play worse. Hell Roy in his worst games of the season still somehow scored a point. He’s starting to make me miss Brandon Rush and I don’t even like Brandon Rush. Here’s a fun fact, he has now played in 17 games and has only shot a total of 33 free throws.
    i started to doubt it. i mean the rest of the league can't be stupid enough to trade for him, can they? imo we are stuck with him and that's depressing.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Quote Originally Posted by xtacy View Post
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    i started to doubt it. i mean the rest of the league can't be stupid enough to trade for him, can they? imo we are stuck with him and that's depressing.

    Look at the bright side... at least the Pacers didn't draft Wes Johnson at #4 or Cole Aldrich #11 who was one pick behind Paul George. It could have been worse!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Quote Originally Posted by xtacy View Post
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    i started to doubt it. i mean the rest of the league can't be stupid enough to trade for him, can they? imo we are stuck with him and that's depressing.
    They are still stupid enough to trade for him. They will attribute his struggles to everything else but him. Be it the abysmal Pacers offense or the presence of Danny. People will still want to trade for him 'till his 5th year at least because he is simply so young and so athletic.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Funny how the Danny Grangers fan club members and Danny Granger excuse makers are the ones that want to trade Paul George because "is enough of excuse making" lol, yeah let's trade the guy with the must potential and let's keep Danny and West for the future because "they are guys that play like old mans so they should be able to play for at least 5 more years" .....


    At this point I'm hoping they trade him for another "old man game" type of player to see what this same people are going to say when Paul George is kicking a$$ on another team and the Pacers are in rebuilding mode once again.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Funny how the Danny Grangers fan club members and Danny Granger excuse makers are the ones that want to trade Paul George because "is enough of excuse making" lol, yeah let's trade the guy with the must potential and let's keep Danny and West for the future because "they are guys that play like old mans so they should be able to play for at least 5 more years" .....


    At this point I'm hoping they trade him for another "old man game" type of player to see what this same people are going to say when Paul George is kicking a$$ on another team and the Pacers are in rebuilding mode once again.
    Paul will never "kick ***" on another team. I think Paul is largely who he is at this point and THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. The problem is that because he was a tall athletic guy on the wing he somehow drew Tracy McGrady comparisons which were INSANE. Paul barely scored 16 ppg in the WAC on really bad percentages. He's just not an offensive dynamo.

    There's a reason a lot of us drooled over the potential of a wing combo involving a healthy Eric Gordon (a pipe dream at this point obviously) and Paul George. Gordon is really good at all the stuff is not good at, while also being pretty good in the areas Paul is really good at. Health, and personnel situations have rendered this pairing impossible, but a healthy Eric Gordon and Paul George would probably be the best wing combo in the NBA, but like I said just not going to happen.

    The point isn't that Paul sucks or is sucking, yes he's had a bad pair of games offensively, but that is the type of player he is and always will be.

    Instead of people just admitting that they set the bar for Paul WAY TOO HIGH, they would rather say Paul isn't living up to his potential, well I vehemently disagree, and I'm sad to see this happening because I said it would happen when people started tossing the T-Mac comps around. Paul is EXACTLY the guy I thought he would be back in the Chicago series, a really decent two way wing, who can get hot from outside and give you 30 point nights, but for the most part is a really average offensive player that plays smothering D rebounds better than any other 2 in the league pretty much and is also an above average passer when you put him in low pressure passing situations. Don't blame the player if you're mad at Paul, blame your expectations that were just way off base. And Vnzla, this is not directed at you, I was just replying to your post since it is not a Danny Granger vs. Paul George thing, it is an unreasonable expectations Paul Goerge vs. Real Paul George thing.

    And Paul may still explode and become a 20 ppg guy, but that should be a surprise for anyone who has watched him, not what is expected.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 12-02-2012 at 08:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Agree with a lot of the frustration with PG... but then, I saw this:

    http://instagram.com/p/SwdgUunMqA/

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul George
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    Put up 500 jump shots.. #NewRoutine gotta get my s*** back!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    I'm not ready to give up on Paul George. He's still just a 22 year old third year player. That's the age that a rookie is if they stay all four years in college. That's the age Roy was in his rookie season, and look how much better he's become in his mid 20's. Paul is still a very young kid in a man's league. Virtually no player in the NBA peaks at age 22. You don't know what you really have in a player until they are at least age 24-25. If Paul was playing like this in his fifth season, then yes I'd agree that he likely wasn't ever going to get much better. But he still has all the time in the world. You don't give up on a talent like Paul when they're just 22 years old unless you get some trade package that blows you away.

    The problem is that this forum hyped him up way too much and had T-Mac-like expectations for him.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 12-02-2012 at 09:51 AM.

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  36. #25

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Warriors came out to play

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I'm not ready to give up on Paul George. He's still just a 22 year old third year player. That's the age that a rookie is if they stay all four years in college. That's the age Roy was in his rookie season, and look how much better he's become in his mid 20's. Paul is still a very young kid in a man's league. Virtually no player in the NBA peaks at age 22. You don't know what you really have in a player until they are at least age 24-25. If Paul was playing like this in his fifth season, then yes I'd agree that he likely wasn't ever going to get much better. But he still has all the time in the world.

    The problem is that this forum hyped him up way too much and had T-Mac-like expectations for him.
    What is the expiration date on this lame excuse? 28? Should we wait six years to expect anything? You know how old Klay Thompson is? Twenty-two. Same age. Roasted him alive.

    TMac expectations were a combined product of his college play & his self-created hype, because he talks about being the man and getting to that superstar/elite scoring level. Don't blame people for expecting him to put some effort behind his words. In any case, scoring 0 is inexcusable from a starter, period. And to think, some people thought he had "turned the corner" after that fluke all-3's performance. Yuck.

    Zero points, zero effort. His new nickname should be NEX. As in, No EXpectations. Because from now on that's certainly what I'll have. You want to give a guy the benefit of the doubt, especially when he talks such a good talk. But at the end of the day you've got 18 yr olds who come in the league with a scorer's mentality (hint: more than jacking up threes), but this guy is playing like a backup with wasted height.

    I mean seriously, it's more than the lack of ability/desire to score. He's not even as effective as he should be defensively. Two years later and he's still regularly having the same mental lapses we saw from his rookie season.

    I'm not saying cut him, but I might be saying bench him when Granger comes back, because Lance is playing better on-ball and obviously better on offense.

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