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Thread: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Not excuses is the facts, the guy is playing great and looks like an all star so far but against who? and yes age is a motive for not resigning a player to a long contract see Foster, how many of you wanted to resign Foster "because he still had game left in him"? how many times me and Justintyme told you that it was the wrong thing to do? "Foster is only in his prime so they need to resigning him" same bs different player and at the end the Pacers screwed it all up as always.

    By the way I would like to see a list of players that are still in their primes at age 33,34,35,36 and 37 that are still in the NBA and are not hall of famers, I'll be waiting.
    West has been consistently good whether we are playing the Spurs or the Wizards so far. He put up 22 and 8 against SAS .

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  2. #102

    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    He put up 22 and 8 against SAS .
    Uh oh, better get that wheel back out!

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    West has been consistently good whether we are playing the Spurs or the Wizards so far. He put up 22 and 8 against SAS .
    I'm still waiting for that list.

    10 and 11 against SA in a blowout game and 22 and 8 in the second game.

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by bunt View Post
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    Hey, he can't help it if he's the only poster on PD that's not wearing the Blue & Gold glasses and the only one telling it like it is!

    Besides, even though West is shooting a better percentage this year, he used to make more shots with nothing but net. But this year he has to rely on the backboard and friendly rolls on the rim with his declining skills.
    He also used to play with Chris Paul

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/david_...ame_stats.html

    It's within reach, if you're actually wanting to look.

    Atlanta is the 4th best defensive fg% team in the league. 20pts on 50% shooting.
    Minn is the 6th best defensive fg% team in the league. 19pts on 50% shooting.
    GSW is 7th. 23pts on 62% shooting.
    SAS is 9th. 10pts on 45% shooting. 22pts on 54% shooting.
    Dallas is 11th. 15pts on 45% shooting.
    Lakers are 12th. 16pts on 44% shooting.
    Last edited by Since86; 12-04-2012 at 02:59 PM.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Two different issues being talked about here.

    No one can argue that West has been anything other than a bad a** all year. All statistics and your eyes will tell you that.

    No one can argue that a physical, brawny PF who is 32, still has "years" in his prime. All previous data around career trajectories of PF's will tell you that.

    Look at this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...players#Active

    He would be really breaking the mold. The two players that defeat this logic that are active are: Tim Duncan and Rasheed Wallace.
    Last edited by docpaul; 12-04-2012 at 03:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Two different issues being talked about here.

    No one can argue that West has been anything other than a bad a** all year. All statistics and your eyes will tell you that.

    No one can argue that a physical, brawny PF who is 32, still has "years" in his prime. All previous data around career trajectories of PF's will tell you that.

    Look at this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...players#Active

    He would be really breaking the mold. The two players that defeat this logic that are active are: Tim Duncan and Rasheed Wallace.
    Thanks for the list, that's my point people are hoping for West to be the one to break the mold, that's not more than just wishful thinking nothing else.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Seth says DWest is still in his prime, and has 2-3years left. Vnlza disagrees with him. Docpaul comes in and says
    No one can argue that a physical, brawny PF who is 32, still has "years" in his prime. All previous data around career trajectories of PF's will tell you that.
    Vnlza then uses it as proof as to why Seth is wrong, and he is right. This is twice within 2hrs that you've used docpaul contradicting your point, as proof that your point is right.

    Atleast this time it's not coupled with you complaining about someone else always thinking they're right.

  10. #109
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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I'm still waiting for that list.

    10 and 11 against SA in a blowout game and 22 and 8 in the second game.
    Still waiting on what list?

    If I waited on all the things I had asked you to support or prove over the years, I would be old and dead before I ever did anything else in my life.

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  12. #110
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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Seth says DWest is still in his prime, and has 2-3years left. Vnlza disagrees with him. Docpaul comes in and says

    Vnlza then uses it as proof as to why Seth is wrong, and he is right. This is twice within 2hrs that you've used docpaul contradicting your point, as proof that your point is right.

    Atleast this time it's not coupled with you complaining about someone else always thinking they're right.
    I didn't agree with his whole point, if you take your time to look at the list he provided instead of wasting your time looking at numbers and trying to ridicule people you could be able to see that, try again.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Still waiting on what list?

    If I waited on all the things I had asked you to support or prove over the years, I would be old and dead before I ever did anything else in my life.
    Don't worry somebody already posted the list of players.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I didn't agree with his whole point, if you take your time to look at the list he provided instead of wasting your time looking at numbers and trying to ridicule people you could be able to see that, try again.
    The list backs up that point!!!

    The whole point of the list is to show that players decline when they're on the other side of 35. West is 32, giving him 3more years left before he declines. Which is exactly what Seth said, and exactly what you disagreed with. You laughed that he had 4-5 years left.

    32+3years of prime makes 35. 1-2 more years of decline makes 37. Putting West on the same path as every player not named Tim or Rasheed, on that list.

    Doc's entire post backs up what Seth said, and contradicts your point.

    If you'd notice PP is the youngest on that list at the age of 35.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    The list backs up that point!!!

    The whole point of the list is to show that players decline when they're on the other side of 35. West is 32, giving him 3more years left before he declines. Which is exactly what Seth said, and exactly what you disagreed with. You laughed that he had 4-5 years left.

    32+3years of prime makes 35. 1-2 more years of decline makes 37. Putting West on the same path as every player not named Tim or Rasheed, on that list.

    Doc's entire post backs up what Seth said, and contradicts your point.

    If you'd notice PP is the youngest on that list at the age of 35.
    It's still making my point, a lot of those players posted are role players or hall of famers, I have a feeling that you guys are thinking a different meaning of "prime" than me.

    Now if you expect to sign West to a huge contract to be a role player I don't know what to tell you.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 12-04-2012 at 04:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Guys, you might want to take a look at this good post from BillS.

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...=1#post1530077

    Basketball topics are a lot more fun than reading posts criticizing each other's communication styles.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    I'm not criticizing him for his style of communication. He has a horrible habit of either dismissing anything that contradicts his point, or trying to change a contradictory point into his point. It's just funny to read day after day.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Since86, I think just about everyone on this thread (except for me of course, LOL) has some valid points. Folks are just missing each other, looking to "win the internet" or something.

    West has been a beast this year.

    West still has some good game in him for sure.

    West has a lot of wear on his tires, especially given the kind of game he plays.

    Previous data around "life expectancies" of NBA power forwards shows a fairly consistent cliff of decline as a player enters into his 30's.

    IMO, based on all of this... I personally would love to see West around past this year.

    The thought of a 4 or maybe even a 3 year high priced contract makes me very very nervous though. It's playing against the odds.

    I sure would love another 10 mil / 2 year deal though! He's got a great contract right now for us. The *perfect* deal last year would have been 10 x 3 years.
    Last edited by docpaul; 12-04-2012 at 04:44 PM.

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  21. #117
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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Would West even consider discussing an extension?

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Since86, I think just about everyone on this thread (except for me of course, LOL) has some valid points. Folks are just missing each other, looking to "win the internet" or something.

    West has been a beast this year.

    West still has some good game in him for sure.

    West has a lot of wear on his tires, especially given the kind of game he plays.

    Previous data around "life expectancies" of NBA power forwards shows a fairly consistent cliff of decline as a player enters into his 30's.

    IMO, based on all of this... I personally would love to see West around past this year.

    The thought of a 4 or maybe even a 3 year high priced contract makes me very very nervous though. It's playing against the odds.

    I sure would love another 10 mil / 2 year deal though! He's got a great contract right now for us. The *perfect* deal last year would have been 10 x 3 years.
    I 100% agree with the highlighted part, signing West to a 3 or 4 years deal to me is a huge mistake, I don't expect him to sign anything less than 4 years next year, some teams are going to be all over him.

  23. #119
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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I 100% agree with the highlighted part, signing West to a 3 or 4 years deal to me is a huge mistake, I don't expect him to sign anything less than 4 years next year, some teams are going to be all over him.
    In all fairness, you thought signing West the first time would be a huge mistake. If we get a solid 2 more years out of him, what's wrong with a three year deal?

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I'm not criticizing him for his style of communication. He has a horrible habit of either dismissing anything that contradicts his point, or trying to change a contradictory point into his point. It's just funny to read day after day.
    I'm not dismissing the point, it looks to me like sometimes you are worry about ridiculing me instead of just reading what I'm actually saying, you love to argue and you have an ax to grind for some reason.

    Here is the list docpaul posted so you get a clear view of what I was talking about:


    Kurt Thomas Role player at 33 and beyond.

    Grant Hill Role player.

    Jason Kidd Hall of famer.

    Steve Nash Hall of famer.

    Marcus Camby Role player at 34 and beyond, he is still a big man that can block shots, rebound and defend and NBA teams love those players.

    Derek Fisher role player.


    Rasheed Wallace was scoring 15ppg at the age of 31 and declined all the way down to 12ppg at the age of 32.


    Jerry Stackhouse Role player since the age of 29.


    Ray Allen HOF


    Andre Miller role player since the age of 32.


    Tim Duncan HOF


    Kevin Garnett HOF


    Antawn Jamison He is in the same boat as West, good numbers in a not so good team.


    Raja Bell role player.


    Chauncey Billups HOF


    Vince Carter HOF


    Pablo Prigioni role player.


    Manu Ginóbili HOF.


    Nazr Mohammed Role player.


    Jason Terry role player, 6th man.


    Paul Pierce HOF.

  25. #121
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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    West's best statistical season. (08-09)
    39.2mpg 21ppg 47fg% 8.5rpg 2.3apg 0.9bpg

    West this season.
    34.3mpg 17.8ppg 49.2fg% 8.3rpg 2.5bpg 1.2bpg

    Yeah, West is really on the decline, and not in his prime. Look at that, statistics just nose dive.
    Check him out on basketball-reference.com and look at his annual per-36 numbers. He's been remarkably consistent for many years now. Even last year, his "down year", he was almost as good save for slightly worse FG% and 2 fewer FGA's per game, if I recall correctly.

    He's definitely undeserving of the 'declining' label.

  26. #122
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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Would West even consider discussing an extension?
    I'm not sure that's possible. I think with it only being a 2 year contract, he will definitely be a free agent. Though I know we can go over the cap to keep him. Not sure if he's restricted or unrestricted, though.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    I'm not sure that's possible. I think with it only being a 2 year contract, he will definitely be a free agent. Though I know we can go over the cap to keep him. Not sure if he's restricted or unrestricted, though.
    He an unrestricted FA. Only guy's who are restricted are those coming off their first contract.

  28. #124
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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    I'm not sure that's possible. I think with it only being a 2 year contract, he will definitely be a free agent. Though I know we can go over the cap to keep him. Not sure if he's restricted or unrestricted, though.
    Extensions can only be offered on contracts of 4 years or greater in length. West will become an unrestricted free agent, and the Pacers will hold early Bird rights. This would allow them to offer a contract starting at up to 175% of his current pay. Since they are unlikely to offer anything approaching the $17.5mm that allows - or much if any more than the $10mm to start, should they try to re-sign him - the early Bird rights are the same as full Bird rights as a practical matter in this case.

    If the Pacers were to let West walk at the end of the season, it's difficult to tell how much cap space they would actually have. Much would depend on where the cap lands. It will probably be somewhere between the current $58mm and $60mm. Given holds for draft picks and roster charges, you're probably looking at perhaps $5 to $7mm in room. That's very rough, but probably a safe guesstimate.

    If they re-sign West, then they'd have their MLE, BAE, and Min to add pieces.

    Any trades obviously change the math.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors postgame thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I'm not dismissing the point, it looks to me like sometimes you are worry about ridiculing me instead of just reading what I'm actually saying, you love to argue and you have an ax to grind for some reason.

    Here is the list docpaul posted so you get a clear view of what I was talking about:
    Reposting the list doesn't add anything to your point, but thanks.

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