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Thread: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    I also love how people keep making fun of Nene's contract, I guess people have not seen that the Pacers now have a similar contract in Roy Hibbert and Danny "I'm making 13mil a year to sit home" Granger.

  2. #52

    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    About Hibbert, I think putting on so much weight was a mistake. He was much more fit/mobile last year. I know he wanted to build his lower body so he wouldn't be pushed off the block so easy, but I think he gave up too much agility to do so. I hope he considers trimming down.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    I'm not so sure that it's a weight problem but he seems to be back to shooting a lot of his shots off-balance or otherwise awkwardly.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Where are all the people jumping off the cliff 3 weeks ago? The same ones who said us "sunshiners" were crazy for believing this team would come around?

    Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
    One of them is right here (although I wasn't on PD saying these things because this is the first time I've logged on in months). I was very down on the team (emotionally as well) until the past few games. They seem to have finally started playing like they have some form of professional training at the sport. It's fun to be able to watch the games again and not want to throw something at my tv the whole time.
    Grown Man Ball

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  7. #55

    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    I'm not so sure that it's a weight problem but he seems to be back to shooting a lot of his shots off-balance or otherwise awkwardly.
    I agree. JMO, but that seems to indicate a conditioning issue. Dude is just not in shape yet. Plus he seems to be rushing things a little. I expect most of that to go away as the season grinds on.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    I agree. JMO, but that seems to indicate a conditioning issue. Dude is just not in shape yet. Plus he seems to be rushing things a little. I expect most of that to go away as the season grinds on.
    What is frustrating with Roy is how he should be unguardable in the post. His little hook shot in the post should be money in the bank, there is no reason for his poor shooting display.
    *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    I'm not so sure that it's a weight problem but he seems to be back to shooting a lot of his shots off-balance or otherwise awkwardly.
    This.

    Confidence is shot, he questions all his moves and situations on offense and then the hesitation kills the moment. Last night he got a post feed that had him primed to walk Cousins right back to the rim, and instead he stopped and faced up. Forget if that was the missed jumper or the drive where his dribble was knocked off his leg, but I remember it was ugly.

    And FT% is not a weight issue, that's mind games.

    He needs to get Cheech Marin's character from Tin Cup to get him out of the funk.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    If there are any PGA Tour fans on here, you'll get this analogy:

    I think Hibbert is going through the "Duval" situation. A lot of people don't know or remember, but Duval was right there with Tiger in his prime. Sure, Tiger was better, but man was Duval close. The guy was an incredible golfer, and was clearly going to be able to challenge Tiger (Think Phil, but potentially better). All of the sudden, Duval goes and loses a TON of weight, puts on a TON of muscle...and his game goes to ****. He basically over-tweaked his body to the point of ruining his career.

    I don't think what Roy has done is that bad, he hasn't destroyed his career. He has, however, done some things that have adversely affected his game, and it needs to stop. Drop some of the weight, get some of that quickness back.

    Call me crazy, but this was a great game for the Pacers. Here's why:

    At this point, all those saying we needed Paul to be "The Man" have seen why we don't. We need Paul to score efficiently and play elite defense. Leave being the Man to West or Hill. Option 1, West. Option 2, Hill.

    We've found what works. We didn't win tonight because the team got hot from 3 or something, we won because David and George took over offensively, and had some players make some very key plays (Sam Young, DJ with a couple VERY important shots). The team, yet again, showed improvement. I've said it over and over, but I won't completely freak out until the team stops showing improvement. That has yet to happen.

    Final point: All of those railing against Vogel, give him a little credit for adjusting his offense, keeping his guys playing ELITE defense, and starting to go away from his squad subs. He's making adjustments, and the team is responding with wins. It wasn't long ago that Indiana wouldn't even be competitive on these West Coast trips.

    Go Pacers!

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Great games by HIll and West again. But I wish people would stop saying that because West has been having some good games recently, you have to look at what our team has done with a grain of salt. Last I checked, David West is an Indiana Pacer and will be at least for the entire season. So whatever he does for us is a credit for us, not something you can't consider when evalutating our team. If you're waiting for all 10 players in our rotation to consistently play well, you're going to be waiting a long time. Not everybody plays great every night. He's had his little funks as well as everybody else on the team. The only difference is that he's been a bona fide scorer in this league where nobody else currently playing has been.

    When LeBron goes off for 40 points, I doubt anybody comments that if they need LeBron to put up 40 they're not as good as they looked because as you can see he clearly only averages 25. Big games don't exist unless the team makes an effort to get the ball to the hot hand and give up their shots. So yes, West isn't gonna score 30 every night. But we're finally playing like he's our primary scorer consistently.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 12-01-2012 at 01:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Here's why I disagree on Green not contributing. Last night there were a couple of up for grabs rebounds that Green's vertical saved the day on and turned into Pacers possessions. And when he made the bad pass it was Green that ran it down and turned it into not just a Kings TO but a foul to boot.

    Green is moderately physical and is still bringing his vertical game to challenge inside.



    The team isn't fixed, it's on a more healthy, believable grade of improvement. They've had the right situation to help that along in terms of schedule, but it's okay to be developing while playing easier early season opponents (see all NCAA football).

    Here's what they've learned

    - Hill/West are fitting into a Parker/Duncan role now, less Paul-Roy as the offensive focus
    - This lets Paul and Roy work more from the 3rd-4th option role instead which means you don't 100% have to have them going in order to limp along
    - Roy is playing great defense and is crucial to that end and the team's outstanding FG% and PPG defense
    - Young is obviously the defensive stopper and a McKey-like "what do you need" type, not starter talent but you are glad when he gets his minutes
    - Green is backing off and appears to be still looking for his role, but at least he/they aren't making him the focus right now while he slumps.
    - Paul has been showing an improved ability to drive and dish
    - Ian can be relied on as a physical frontline guy, but like Green he's still trying to figure out when/where he can or should get the ball

    If I'm giving out homework to Vogel it's to get a reliable PnR game going between DJ and Ian because that's untapped gold that can have a major impact on getting them going while also generating much needed bench offensive flow. If Ian would protect his dribble a bit better going to the rim then this combo would be even more lethal.

    And back to West-Roy, maybe Roy-David are like Smits-Dale, just in a way opposite from what we thought. That can still work even if we eventually would like to see more offense from Roy's salary.





    BTW - game specific, where's all the complaining about that obvious hip-hugging carry last night, I think it was Garcia. He lost his dribble, cradled it to his hip, put his other hand on the ball to secure it (a 2 handed dribble?) and then put the ball back on the floor and continued to drive to the rim. It was right in front of me and I was p*****, and the replay in-arena confirmed I was right to be. Terrible missed call.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    You are an Indiana Pacers hater and specially a Larry Bird hater because they are the ones that took that whole trip to kiss Nene's a** to bring him here, no me, all I did was agree with Bird so stop it.

    I love how I'm supposed to be the only that wanted him when a huge group of people wanted him also.
    That post didn't even mention you directly LOL

    It's all in good fun

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    The Pacers now have two mature leaders - West and Hill. That bodes very well and should continue to strengthen the team when tougher games come later in the season schedule. Now, whenever Granger returns, he doesn't necessarily need to worry about being a one man team without anyone else capable of carrying the load, especially mentally.
    I will say this.....if we need a game winning basket at the end of the game.....I'd rather give the ball to GH or West to take that shot than Granger.

    GH is way more clutch than Granger is when it comes to getting a basket.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    Great games by HIll and West again. But I wish people would stop saying that because West has been having some good games recently, you have to look at what our team has done with a grain of salt. Last I checked, David West is an Indiana Pacer and will be at least for the entire season. So whatever he does for us is a credit for us, not something you can't consider when evalutating our team. If you're waiting for all 10 players in our rotation to consistently play well, you're going to be waiting a long time. Not everybody plays great every night. He's had his little funks as well as everybody else on the team. The only difference is that he's been a bona fide scorer in this league where nobody else currently playing has been.

    When LeBron goes off for 40 points, I doubt anybody comments that if they need LeBron to put up 40 they're not as good as they looked because as you can see he clearly only averages 25. Big games don't exist unless the team makes an effort to get the ball to the hot hand and give up their shots. So yes, West isn't gonna score 30 every night. But we're finally playing like he's our primary scorer consistently.
    I kind of get what you are saying but if you are comparing Lebrons impact to West impact in the game I don't know what to tell you.

    And also nobody is asking for all 13 players to be consistent, I have not seen anybody saying that, is it too much to ask for at least 5 or 6 players to be consistent? I don't think so.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I kind of get what you are saying but if you are comparing Lebrons impact to West impact in the game I don't know what to tell you.
    He is definitely NOT doing this kind of comparison.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    This.

    Confidence is shot, he questions all his moves and situations on offense and then the hesitation kills the moment. Last night he got a post feed that had him primed to walk Cousins right back to the rim, and instead he stopped and faced up. Forget if that was the missed jumper or the drive where his dribble was knocked off his leg, but I remember it was ugly.

    And FT% is not a weight issue, that's mind games.

    He needs to get Cheech Marin's character from Tin Cup to get him out of the funk.
    This is exactly what Peck ( or is it Hicks ? ) said about Hibbert.....he's "Gladiator" from the Marvel Universe. His production on the offensive end is entirely reliant on his confidence in himself. The more confidence he has...the more effective he is...the less confidence he has...the less effective he is.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  23. #66
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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    7) PG was good in the non-scoring areas so I give him credit there. But will the guy even be able to average say 12 -14 ppg?
    Psst. Don't look now but the guy is averaging 14.3ppg.
    Last edited by Eleazar; 12-01-2012 at 03:52 PM. Reason: The PPG wasn't updated when I looked last night.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
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    If there are any PGA Tour fans on here, you'll get this analogy:

    I think Hibbert is going through the "Duval" situation. A lot of people don't know or remember, but Duval was right there with Tiger in his prime. Sure, Tiger was better, but man was Duval close. The guy was an incredible golfer, and was clearly going to be able to challenge Tiger (Think Phil, but potentially better). All of the sudden, Duval goes and loses a TON of weight, puts on a TON of muscle...and his game goes to ****. He basically over-tweaked his body to the point of ruining his career.

    I don't think what Roy has done is that bad, he hasn't destroyed his career. He has, however, done some things that have adversely affected his game, and it needs to stop. Drop some of the weight, get some of that quickness back.

    Call me crazy, but this was a great game for the Pacers. Here's why:

    At this point, all those saying we needed Paul to be "The Man" have seen why we don't. We need Paul to score efficiently and play elite defense. Leave being the Man to West or Hill. Option 1, West. Option 2, Hill.

    We've found what works. We didn't win tonight because the team got hot from 3 or something, we won because David and George took over offensively, and had some players make some very key plays (Sam Young, DJ with a couple VERY important shots). The team, yet again, showed improvement. I've said it over and over, but I won't completely freak out until the team stops showing improvement. That has yet to happen.

    Final point: All of those railing against Vogel, give him a little credit for adjusting his offense, keeping his guys playing ELITE defense, and starting to go away from his squad subs. He's making adjustments, and the team is responding with wins. It wasn't long ago that Indiana wouldn't even be competitive on these West Coast trips.

    Go Pacers!
    The first part about PG and Hibbert being an efficient and effective scorer and GH/West being the primary 1st and 2nd Scorers ( without Granger in the equation ) is correct. The problem is that right now.....PG and Hibbert aren't effective and efficient scorers on a consistent basis. I love the GH/West put on a Herculean performance against a mediocre Team like the Kings...but they won't be able to do this on a regular basis.

    PG and Hibbert MUST STEP UP and at least become produce more on the offensive end.

    BTW.....what you just said about PG simply being a Complementary Player is what I think his best role will be going forward. PG has been given the chance to fill the role that Granger filled....unfortunately, I do not think that his mentality is best suited to be "Batman"....but to be "Robin". PG may have all the talent and skill to be "Batman" but he doesn't have the aggressiveness nor willingness to simply "take over". On the other side of the coin.... I think that Granger has the mentality and aggressiveness to want to "take over" and to "Be the Man" but does not have the necessary talent or skill level to become a Carmelo-type Player. IMHO....Granger can sometimes take over a game...but doesn't have the requisite talent or skill to do it on a regular basis like Carmelo can.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Psst. Don't look now but the guy is averaging 15ppg.
    Yeah....but let's look at this in context....for the season...you are right....15ppg....but over the last week, he's been averaging 8 ppg on 29% shooting while taking 13 FGA .

    I like that he's helping on the defensive end...but this level of offensive production and being inefficient isn't going to help over the long term. Add in the amount of wear and tear that is put on DW where he is the only Player that can be relied upon on the offensive end...and it's not good in the long term.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  27. #69

    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Just wanted to reiterate how much I love watching David West play. Yeah, I know his defense leaves much to be desired, but if Roy Hibbert played with half the heart, anger and intensity as David West, he would be the most dominant center in the league. There's something special about West's fight, hustle, and desire to win. You couldn't ask for a better vet example for your locker room.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Yeah....but let's look at this in context....for the season...you are right....15ppg....but over the last week, he's been averaging 8 ppg on 29% shooting while taking 13 FGA .

    I like that he's helping on the defensive end...but this level of offensive production and being inefficient isn't going to help over the long term. Add in the amount of wear and tear that is put on DW where he is the only Player that can be relied upon on the offensive end...and it's not good in the long term.
    The last week only consists of 2 games, one of which was the worst shooting night of his season, and came after a week where he averaged 19ppg. I am not going to put a lot of stock in a single weeks worth of performance as a single week is prone to be affected greatly by anomalies.


    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC
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    I love the GH/West put on a Herculean performance against a mediocre Team like the Kings
    They may have scored a lot, but the way they scored is very repeatable. Most of Wests scoring came off of assists, not 1v1 isos. Yeah, Hill got hot from 3, but overall he mostly just covered for Georges extremely bad shooting night.
    Last edited by Eleazar; 12-01-2012 at 04:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    About Hibbert, I think putting on so much weight was a mistake. He was much more fit/mobile last year. I know he wanted to build his lower body so he wouldn't be pushed off the block so easy, but I think he gave up too much agility to do so. I hope he considers trimming down.
    Yeah, he appears way more "bulkier" this year. It's even more noticeable on tv. Not sure if this is contributing to any of his struggles or not but i have noticed it.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I also love how people keep making fun of Nene's contract, I guess people have not seen that the Pacers now have a similar contract in Roy Hibbert and Danny "I'm making 13mil a year to sit home" Granger.
    I can get the Hibbert point because he sucks, but Granger is injured. Is Derrick Rose a bad contract? He makes even more than Granger and will probably be out longer.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Where are all the people jumping off the cliff 3 weeks ago? The same ones who said us "sunshiners" were crazy for believing this team would come around?

    Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
    Pessimism doesn't mean it's right and that's something that annoys me. I was getting annoyed with our play as much as anyone else, but I wouldn't say to "blow it up" a month into the season after coming off a season where we were the 5th best team and not having Danny.

    This team is still plenty good and it's shown in recent games. It's should get even better.

    Hopefully we keep it going and start dominating our opponent, but the way we've played as a unit is an auspicious sign moving forward.
    Last edited by Trophy; 12-01-2012 at 04:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    More on West and Hill--they're so key to our team because they are two of our smartest players. It's just tough to quantify how important it is to have guys with high basketball IQ out there. This team is going to be very good when Danny comes back.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Kings post game thread.

    Maybe Roy needs to accidentally elbow me in the head at the airport again.......

    Hmm....
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