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Thread: Spurs to be punished for resting players

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    I don't really understand any complaining about an imbalance of rest between teams or an imbalance in home/away games. Because when a team has a more compact schedule in one week, it means they will have another weak that is a very light schedule. When a team has a lot of road games bunched together, it means they have a lot of home games bunched together somewhere else.
    This is true in general but we're talking about this specific match-up here.

    That's a nationally televised game that was supposed to draw a lot of fans because it would be a derby between two contenders. However, the schedule made sure that one of the two teams wouldn't be able to compete.

    Pop had every right to protest the fact that his team was not given an equal opportunity in this game (the fact that this game was nationally televised does matter).

    Also, the game that the Spurs are playing in 2 days is much, much more important than the one they played together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    This is true in general but we're talking about this specific match-up here.

    That's a nationally televised game that was supposed to draw a lot of fans because it would be a derby between two contenders. However, the schedule made sure that one of the two teams wouldn't be able to compete.

    Pop had every right to protest the fact that his team was not given an equal opportunity in this game (the fact that this game was nationally televised does matter).

    Also, the game that the Spurs are playing in 2 days is much, much more important than the one they played together.
    That's ridiculous. Equal opportunity...on an nba schedule?

    Should he have protested because Miami gets to use lebron and his team doesn't? That's not fair either....

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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Should he have protested because Miami gets to use lebron and his team doesn't? That's not fair either....
    It is fair because he has Duncan

    This game was supposed to be a clash of the titans. It was supposed to be a derby. But that was just fool's gold as the result was already skewed by the schedule making.

    Imo, he has every right to protest it.

    And once again the game against Memphis in Saturday matters a lot to them. The game against the Heat? It only matters to the media.

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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    everytime when i think nba can't be a bigger joke, stern surprises me. he can resign and let tnt manage the nba. i'm sure things can't be worse.

    btw almost beating heat without the starters. you gotta respect popovich.

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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Btw, there's no slippery slope here. You're best guys have to at least be in the building and give the appearance that they're going to play, so your viewing audience doesn't turn the channel before the game even starts.
    Stern or the NBA shouldn't be in the position to dictate what the Coach or a Team plays. I understand that the NBA is a business.....but where is the line drawn where a Coach is allowed to rest ANY of his Players?

    Based off of this punishment.....it sounds like the answer is that there shouldn't be a line drawn.....if the Starting 5 are fair game....then the guy at the end of the bench should "technically" be fair game as well to be fined as well.

    I know that there are Stars in the NBA and on Teams....which are light years better than the 15th guy on the roster.....but from the Players and Owners POV.....there shouldn't be any distinction between the Starting 5 and the 15th guy on the bench when it comes to the Coaches decision to rest who he wants to rest.

    On top of that....this isn't the first time that Pop has rested the Big 3......much less the first time that any Team has rested any of their key Players. Why hasn't the Spurs ( much less any of the SuperStar Teams with an aging Starting lineup ) been fined last year for doing the same thing? What's the difference? As some have mentioned.....is it just because it's a Thursday night TNT game?

    Where is the line drawn when it comes to who MUST play and who DOESN'T NEED to play?

    Who decides this now? Stern/NBA or the Team/Coach?

    To me, it is a slippery slope.
    Last edited by CableKC; 11-30-2012 at 03:20 AM.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  10. #81
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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    Stern issuing punishment on a team/coach/player for no other reason than not playing them is the definition of a slippery slope. When David West doesn't play the last 4 games of the year (I SAID IT!) even though he's healthy, then Vogel or the franchise should get fined. That's the clear precedent.

    I realize Stern's on his way out so he doesn't give a damn, and I do sorta kinda agree that Pop sitting his guys hurts the league (for like 12 hours), but you've got to be consistent. Where's the line drawn? November 29th? March 29th? If Stern issues fines or whatever he needs to hit ESPN and NBATV and specifically explain his reasoning. I don't like Pop sitting his guys. But I dislike Stern basically dictating playing time much more. Stern wants to put out a statement bashing Pop, a general "I disagree with their decision" statement, fine. But fining a coach for managing his roster how he sees fit is just way too much.

  11. #82

    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    Popovich has always liked sticking his finger in the David Stern's eye but it's always been harmless stuff. Once you start messing with people's money, that's when the problems start. Can't blame Stern for being mad. The league builds the season narrative through strategically placed games throughout the year. Pop knows the deal, it's part of the reason his paycheck has so many 0's on it.

  12. #83

    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    Pop should have just benched his starters rather than sending them home. I think Popovich took it to the extreme, and since the game is nationally televised, not only does it disappoint fans but it loses business too. If this game wasn't televised, I think Stern's would have been less infuriated.

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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Stern issuing punishment on a team/coach/player for no other reason than not playing them is the definition of a slippery slope. When David West doesn't play the last 4 games of the year (I SAID IT!) even though he's healthy, then Vogel or the franchise should get fined. That's the clear precedent.

    I realize Stern's on his way out so he doesn't give a damn, and I do sorta kinda agree that Pop sitting his guys hurts the league (for like 12 hours), but you've got to be consistent. Where's the line drawn? November 29th? March 29th? If Stern issues fines or whatever he needs to hit ESPN and NBATV and specifically explain his reasoning. I don't like Pop sitting his guys. But I dislike Stern basically dictating playing time much more. Stern wants to put out a statement bashing Pop, a general "I disagree with their decision" statement, fine. But fining a coach for managing his roster how he sees fit is just way too much.
    Advertisers know games at the end of the season are hit and miss because of playoff prep. They expect that and I'm sure TNT negotiates the ad fees accordingly.

    What they DONT expect is for someone to arbitrarily sit his star players 4 weeks into the season.

    Things like injuries, suspensions, can't be helped. This could have.

    It isn't that he didn't play them, it's that he sent them home knowing that it was THE most-watched marquee NBA game this week.

    And yes, it absolutely matters more because it was a TNT game. The NBA is a business. They make a lot of their money through national TV revenue, and those broadcasting partners expect that when the best players can play, that they will play.
    Last edited by Kstat; 11-30-2012 at 04:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    It isn't that he didn't play them, it's that he sent them home knowing that it was THE most-watched marquee NBA game this week.

    And yes, it absolutely matters more because it was a TNT game. The NBA is a busines.
    And that's exactly why Pops send them home.

    The schedule makers knew as well that this was THE most-watched marquee NBA game this week. So, they should do their best to give both teams an equal chance at winning. They didn't. They skewed the outcome with the scheduling.

    So, the league didn't respect that this was THE most-watched marquee NBA game. Why should Pops respect it then?

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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    It isn't his place to take his ball and go home.

    If Pop wanted to play his starters 5 minutes and yank them, that's fine. But are you telling me they're so tired 4 weeks into the season that they couldn't make the plane trip and give a token appearance? That's weak.

    Everyone knew an hour before the game that the spurs sent their best guys home. I imagine a big chunk of TNT's audience never bothered to tune in because of that. That decision cost TNT ratings, and no doubt pissed off advertisers.

    The NBA makes close to a billion dollars a year on TV revenue. This is a big deal.
    Last edited by Kstat; 11-30-2012 at 05:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    The Spurs have terrible TV ratings. Despite them being perpetually outstanding their playoff ratings are awful. I'd put good money on this whole thing INCREASING TNT's rating tonight. We'll never know, the numbers are too fungible, but I very much think this whole thing increased TNT's rating.

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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I'm pretty sure the NBA's corporate sponsors and biggest broadcast partner paying them hundreds of millions of dollars would disagree with you.

    Agree with it or not, this is a business. And Thursday night is the NBA's biggest national showcase.
    Hmmm, so with playoff positions on the line for some teams it's no big deal to limit minutes on your star players when you have your own position clinched by game 79-80, but god forbid you do the EXACT SAME THING at game 16 when it suits your team's needs far more.

    Stern is an insane power monger who has had a rep built by piggy-backing a game and stars that were going to TCOB without him. I'm so sick of the praise he gets when all I see is every single clear choice by him seems to hurt the game and all the things that are great about the game come from the participants themselves or pioneers, ie Bird, Magic, Jabbar, Jordan, Dr J, Gervin and the ABA. Stern had nothing to do with the MSU-ISU NCAA title game having such high ratings, that was star power pure and simple.

    I'd go down his entire list, but this is about the current issue. Stern DOES NOT FINE teams for bad trades that ruin franchises, didn't fine OKC for removing all of the Seattle fans and sponsors' ability to see NBA stars at all, let alone for one night, never fines teams for doing salary dumps that let players like Baron Davis or Sheed go to some new team on the cheap, doesn't fine Dwight Howard for pouting his way out of Orlando, and so on.

    See, in those cases it's just the game and the franchises and if their choices make for a bad fan experience then that's just the way it goes. But suddenly the Spurs work the system and they are punished for it.

    The Spurs have PUT THEMSELVES IN THE POSITION TO HAVE THIS OPTION. They have done so well that they can afford to sit players. That's exactly the same as being able to rest "injured" players in the final week or two of the season because you won enough games to not have to worry about it.




    This is a business, and specifically an entertainment business. BUT...the entertainment value comes from the drama of perceived legit competition with unknown outcomes. This is not a musical or play or rock show where the artists must perform. The entertainment of sports is seeing who will WIN OR LOSE. That's the value. So the Spurs aren't obligated to play anyone that anyone wants to see, as long as they win the game. And by the way, the Miami fans got to see a very entertaining, competitive game. So where is their complaint on money?

    Will Stern apologize to the Spurs and give them an honorary title if Duncan gets hurt in a couple of weeks? Will Stern give them that title if they go 6-14 with mental fatigue?

    No. Stern has said to Pop "You must try to win the title". It's on Pop and the Spurs to determine the best way to do that, and if they fail to do that then no one suffers more than they do. It's their ticket sales and promotional benefits on the line, not Stern's. For Stern there will always be a title winning team even if the Spurs blow it.



    One other thing. Much of this is a by-product of the newish tiered pricing approach. But this approach always runs the risk of not panning out. What if Kobe gets hurt and you paid more for the Lakers game? What if I actually did scalp into row 3 vs the Heat back in the Shaq era, only to have him get hurt early in the week and not play in that game. Did the scalper give me my money back? Did Stern fine the Heat for "ripping me off"?

    Damn it, I paid a lot of money with total disregard to the possible risk that the entertainment might not pan out exactly as planned, so put Shaq on crutches and run his a** out there.




    PS - how long before Stern fines teams for knocking elite teams out of the playoffs. You know, because it's a business and sponsors want 7 game series between Miami, NYK, LAL and OKC.

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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    Imo Pop, and for every Pop in this case, should only answer to the Spurs' owner(if he has any problems with that and i seriously doubt it) and nobody else.He shouldn't give a flying **** if Stern *****es about it or TNT or ESPN etc. since he hasn't violated any rules.He is responsible for the playing side of the organization and will do as he wishes.I get Stern's position but at the end of the day it is what it is.Pop has done nothing illegal and any punishment will be ludicrous.

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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    If this is the **** Stern's going to pull in his last year I feel bad for Adam Silver. Stern's done a ton for the NBA, but if he still can't check his ego it's past time for him to go.

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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    I thought of another good fine. See when I go to a Pacer game I want to see Gerald Green dunk and Lance break someone's ankles. So it's time to fine Vogel into the poorhouse for not calling nothing but Green alley-oop and Lance 1 on 1 plays. F*** winning, this is what I paid to see. Frank needs to think about the ratings that dunk highlight will bring.

    Also I really think it's funny when Crawford T's guys up and does his funny dance, so Stern should inject his control on that too and fine Crawford and both teams if they don't generate at least 10 technical with at least 4 resulting in a hilarious Crawford moment.


    It's not about the sport, it's about entertainment and ratings. And apparently there's only one way to do that, and that's to keep the NBA's most watched team on the court.*



    *it's come to my understanding that the Spurs do not, in fact, draw the highest ratings. So Stern needs to FINE HIMSELF for even putting the Spurs on national TV period. What the F is Stern thinking? The sponsors don't want to see that s***, they want 82 games of Boston vs Miami vs Knicks. He should also fine himself for letting the Pacers exist.

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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players


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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    Consistency. As long as they apply the same standard after the Heat wrap up the East and decide to rest Braun-Braun, DWade, Allen and Bosch.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    It's not about the sport, it's about entertainment and ratings.
    It's about both. If Pop wants to only think about winning basketball games I'm sure there's a high school out there that will hire him. If you want to work in the NBA where they televise games and you make millions of dollars a year to coach, then you have to understand the system that allows you to make those millions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP63 View Post
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    Consistency. As long as they apply the same standard after the Heat wrap up the East and decide to rest Braun-Braun, DWade, Allen and Bosch.
    Except one is expected at the end of the season and the other isn't. That wouldn't be consistent.

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  33. #96

    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    Stern just needs to send the coaches scripts for all nationally televised games so there is no confusion on who actually gets to make coaching decisions when a sponsor is involved. When Kia wants to make sure they advertise at the 2 minute mark of a close game with both teams starters on the floor Stern has to clearly communicate that to the coaches so they don't do something stupid like play a bench player that may be hot. Who the hell would want to see that? Unknown guys playing their asses off? What they hell does Pop think the NBA is - a sport? He'll no, it's sports entertainment. You never saw the macho man randy savage take a day off!

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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    It isn't his place to take his ball and go home.

    If Pop wanted to play his starters 5 minutes and yank them, that's fine. But are you telling me they're so tired 4 weeks into the season that they couldn't make the plane trip and give a token appearance? That's weak.

    Everyone knew an hour before the game that the spurs sent their best guys home. I imagine a big chunk of TNT's audience never bothered to tune in because of that. That decision cost TNT ratings, and no doubt pissed off advertisers.

    The NBA makes close to a billion dollars a year on TV revenue. This is a big deal.
    I actually had no intention of watching this game because its hard for me to care about any other game the Pacers aren't playing in, even if it is a marquee matchup between the Spurs and Heat. But once I found out Pop sent his big guns home I was enthralled by the game. In fact, this game was the most entertaining and emotionally invested I had been in a game all year. I wanted SA to win soooooo bad. One more defensive stop and they could have done it.

    But my point is, I wouldn't automatically assume Pop's decision hurt ratings. I'm sure there were others like me that tuned in only because of his decision.

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    There are plenty of unknown guys playing their asses off in the nbdl. Maybe you should go watch that if you find it so exciting?

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    Default Re: Spurs to be punished for resting players

    NBDL players don't get to play Lebron, Wade, and Bosh every game now do they?
    Last edited by Phree Refill; 11-30-2012 at 07:31 AM. Reason: Removed Kstat's quote. Misinterpretation by me. My bad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phree Refill View Post
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    NBDL players don't get to play Lebron, Wade, and Bosh every game now do they?
    I wasn't responding to you.

    But, to answer, yes. It's called preseason.

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