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Thread: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

  1. #176
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    There is only one person that will convince me he is worth 40 million and George sure hasn't proved it at all.
    Yup. Cuz 15, 4 and 5 and clutch play isn't worth 40 Mil for a 26 yr old PG in the NBA.

    Comparisons sake:

    Ty Lawson: 4yrs, 48 MIL-- 13pts, 2 rebs, and 7 assts
    Mike Conley: 5yrs, 45 MIL -- 15, 3 and 6
    Steph Curry: 4 yrs, 44 MIL -- 19, 4 and 6
    Jrue Holiday: 4 yrs, $41 MIL that can go up to $46 MIL -- 18, 4 and 9

    Looking at just a few comparisons of what OTHER players got paid within their extensions, I'd say George Hill's contract isn't too outrageous.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Yup. Cuz 15, 4 and 5 and clutch play isn't worth 40 Mil for a 26 yr old PG in the NBA.

    Comparisons sake:

    Ty Lawson: 4yrs, 48 MIL-- 13pts, 2 rebs, and 7 assts
    Mike Conley: 5yrs, 45 MIL -- 15, 3 and 6
    Steph Curry: 4 yrs, 44 MIL -- 19, 4 and 6
    Jrue Holiday: 4 yrs, $41 MIL that can go up to $46 MIL -- 18, 4 and 9

    Looking at just a few comparisons of what OTHER players got paid within their extensions, I'd say George Hill's contract isn't too outrageous.
    This is counter productive to try and make me believe his contract is worthy.
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    This is counter productive to try and make me believe his contract is worthy.
    I would care for you to elaborate on why those numbers are counter productive.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    I would care for you to elaborate on why those numbers are counter productive.
    Because 3 of those guys are at a higher level and I'd give up Hill and 2-3 mil of contracts in any combination of Pends, Ben, Orlando, Plumlee, Young for any of those 3 guys listed.
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Because 3 of those guys are at a higher level and I'd give up Hill and 2-3 mil of contracts in any combination of Pends, Ben, Orlando, Plumlee, Young for any of those 3 guys listed.
    The 3 at a "higher level" are being paid more.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    The 3 at a "higher level" are being paid more.
    They are all being paid more.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Also Steph Curry came at a discount because of his ankle problems.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Hill is paid to much because it is 8 mil for 5 years.
    He is in the middle of the pack and comes with a very long contract.
    My point to the previous question is because his contract is 2 million to high, the Pacers could have a Holiday, Conley or Step for a mere 2 million more which is nothing more then our 14 & 15th man's salary. That is quit a upgrade for nothing, the reason why is cause Hill is getting paid to much. If he was at 6 mil per then it would cost the Pacers more to get a 10 -11 mil guy. Like a Hill, Mahinmi and Young, this would cause a person to think twice on a trade cause you may be losing to much, hence, Hills contract (6mil) vs the production would be much better and the team would be losing a quality back up center.

    Do any of you guys think that the Pacers could trade Hill and Pend's for Step Curry? I don't, no fat freakin chance. Therefore, Hill is paid to much and if he does no better in the future as he has done in his NBA career we will all be wishing for that 8 mil per year at years to come to end sooner rather then later. I would feel better about it if it was 16 mil for 2 yrs. rather then the 5. He can become a huge crutch very quickly. I hope he proves me wrong!!!
    Last edited by Pacer Fan; 12-05-2012 at 10:19 PM.
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  10. #184

    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Maybe there was a compromise, Hill gets 8 a year but he signs off on a flat rate instead of demanding raises at a deal starting at ~7, which saves us money. Maybe he demanded 8 or said he'll play out the year on his qualifying offer and walk, which I REALLY doubt, but never know.

    I don't like that we didn't let his RFA status play out, but it's not like any of us were in the room.
    i suspect the pacers offered a salary starting at 6 and Hill wanted a salary starting at 7.5. Over 5 years, the former was 34M and the latter 43.5M. That would make the $40M/5yrs a logical compromise.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Hill is paid to much because it is 8 mil for 5 years.
    He is in the middle of the pack and comes with a very long contract.
    My point to the previous question is because his contract is 2 million to high, the Pacers could have a Holiday, Conley or Step for a mere 2 million more which is nothing more then our 14 & 15th man's salary. That is quit a upgrade for nothing, the reason why is cause Hill is getting paid to much. If he was at 6 mil per then it would cost the Pacers more to get a 10 -11 mil guy. Like a Hill, Mahinmi and Young, this would cause a person to think twice on a trade cause you may be losing to much, hence, Hills contract (6mil) vs the production would be much better and the team would be losing a quality back up center.

    Do any of you guys think that the Pacers could trade Hill and Pend's for Step Curry? I don't, no fat freakin chance. Therefore, Hill is paid to much and if he does no better in the future as he has done in his NBA career we will all be wishing for that 8 mil per year at years to come to end sooner rather then later. I would feel better about it if it was 16 mil for 2 yrs. rather then the 5. He can become a huge crutch very quickly. I hope he proves me wrong!!!
    You say this as if we had the possibility of signing those guy. We used what resources we had to get George Hill, who has been playing very well for us. I don't understand how you can be upset that Hill is on our team for 8 mil if you would be just fine having him on our team for 6 million. We proved last year we can be successful with the guys we have against the best in the NBA. This season, our defense has improved and we're missing both our second best post defender and second best wing defender in Granger. You can't magically make people amenable to what they're worth, that's why they're called negotiations.

    If you want a certain caliber level of player, you have to first have them available. The best starting-level guard available to us was George Hill, and they negotiated with him. "But he's only worth 6 million." How is that possible to know? Even if all of our starters are overpaid based on their individual performmances, I don't give a crap if they are able to churn out 50 win seasons.

    Because the NBA isn't about performance per salary paid. It's about performance.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Hill is paid to much because it is 8 mil for 5 years.
    He is in the middle of the pack and comes with a very long contract.
    My point to the previous question is because his contract is 2 million to high, the Pacers could have a Holiday, Conley or Step for a mere 2 million more which is nothing more then our 14 & 15th man's salary. That is quit a upgrade for nothing, the reason why is cause Hill is getting paid to much. If he was at 6 mil per then it would cost the Pacers more to get a 10 -11 mil guy. Like a Hill, Mahinmi and Young, this would cause a person to think twice on a trade cause you may be losing to much, hence, Hills contract (6mil) vs the production would be much better and the team would be losing a quality back up center.

    Do any of you guys think that the Pacers could trade Hill and Pend's for Step Curry? I don't, no fat freakin chance. Therefore, Hill is paid to much and if he does no better in the future as he has done in his NBA career we will all be wishing for that 8 mil per year at years to come to end sooner rather then later. I would feel better about it if it was 16 mil for 2 yrs. rather then the 5. He can become a huge crutch very quickly. I hope he proves me wrong!!!
    There is a reason why Curry makes on average $3 million more per year. Of course no one would do that because Hill + Pend =/= Curry, it isn't because Hill isn't worth his contract, it is because he isn't worth a $11 million contract, and Penderpraph doesn't make up for it. Penderpraph is the only player in that trade who is overpayed.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Hill is paid to much because it is 8 mil for 5 years.
    He is in the middle of the pack and comes with a very long contract.
    My point to the previous question is because his contract is 2 million to high, the Pacers could have a Holiday, Conley or Step for a mere 2 million more which is nothing more then our 14 & 15th man's salary.
    The Pacers couldn't just have one of those players since all of those players resigned with their initial team before they hit the market. The Pacers could have George Hill because the Spurs didn't have the money to pay him what he is worth. Which based on those other contracts is right around his tier of PGs in the league. Curry is underpaid if he gets healthy enough, but the other two are giving their teams about the same value as Hill. 15pts a game, smart player, good defender, clutch. If we ever manage to find a better PG we could just slide him across to SG or he would be the perfect 6th man on an elite team. George Hill is getting paid market value and is performing well to that contract.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Seriously, These players that was given was an example given by another poster...I only used them as an example. Obviously they are used as an example and there is no real thought that the Pacers would obtain one in any reason.

    The point is, as it seems I have to go into great detail at this point...is that the Pacers will stay under the cap hold and not get in to this luxury tax line, which means that it is most critical for our FO not to overpay. 2 million to the Lakers is nothing but 2 million to the Pacers is alot. It is the difference of a Hill vs Curry when Hill is getting overpaid by 2 million.

    Look at this way...Green is getting paid 3.5 mil I think, obviously that is the most the Pacer could spend when looking at our roster and salaries. If Hill got paid 2 mil less, like he should be, the Pacers could spend 5.5mil on a better player than Green. If you take our 14th and 15 mans salary away (cut them, we really don't need them) that would be in the neighborhood of 2 to 3 more million. A total of about 7.5 - 8.5 mil. This is an amount in salary that can be spent to obtain a talent that could really improve this team and possibly get them to the next level if the FO picks the right man for the team. Could this happen anyways? Certainly, but it only makes things more difficult then it already is for a team like the Pacers vs Laker.

    To this day, I have never heard of a rumor or anything that has to do with Hill getting an offer somewhere else before we signed him. The team that so adores him didn't adore him enough to keep him, why, cause they had an opportunity to get better on a chance from a rookie. So, obviously the Spurs would never pay Hill 8 mil per year. It is a joke that he has this contract.

    I said many times that he is a 4.5 to 5.5 mil guy and that 6 mil to keep him would be worthy. I'm looking for this team to compete at the next level and to do this from a Pacers organization where they better get the best bang for their buck more times then not and to over pay a guy that we already know what his ceiling is is crazy to me.

    Look, I like Hill very much, I am happy he is a Pacers and was thrilled with the trade when it went down. I'm just not thrilled with his contract.

    Hill should be competing for sixth man of the year and on most teams he would be doing just that...but for some reason our Pacers think he is a starting pg in this league when he himself has said he isn't and that he will do the best he can to learn the pg position...this just strikes me as odd once again.
    Last edited by Pacer Fan; 12-06-2012 at 08:22 AM.
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by eric1516 View Post
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    I'm excited to see Hill play against Lillard tonight. He (Lillard) has had a great so far, especially for a rookie, and I think Hill's veteran leadership will greatly affect Lillards play.

    HUM???

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    HUM???
    I think all in all Hill did a good job. Of course on Lillard it was a team effort as well.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    The thing of it is, he didn't have much choice if he wanted to get paid now. He was our restricted free agent. He could have signed elsewhere, and we could then match the contract.
    I was thinking he was unrestricted... So yeah... There goes the logic in my opinion
    Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I think that was more of an isolated incident that was overplayed by peoples paranoia.
    If you are referring to the laser tag incident I wasn't completely basing my opinion on that... But it did contribute... I just never really felt like he seemed super excited to be back home in Indy...
    Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    I said many times that he is a 4.5 to 5.5 mil guy and that 6 mil to keep him would be worthy. I'm looking for this team to compete at the next level and to do this from a Pacers organization where they better get the best bang for their buck more times then not and to over pay a guy that we already know what his ceiling is is crazy to me.

    Look, I like Hill very much, I am happy he is a Pacers and was thrilled with the trade when it went down. I'm just not thrilled with his contract.

    Hill should be competing for sixth man of the year and on most teams he would be doing just that...but for some reason our Pacers think he is a starting pg in this league when he himself has said he isn't and that he will do the best he can to learn the pg position...this just strikes me as odd once again.
    Just FYI, since you think he's 6th man of the year caliber, let's have the salaries of the past few 6MOTY awards:

    2012 Harden: 5.8 mil on a rookie contract (now makes 13.7 mil)
    2011 Odom: 8.9 mil
    2010 Crawford: 7.9mil per year contract (toward the end of the contract he was making around 10 mil that year)
    2009 Terry: 9.5 mil per year contract

    I don't think 8 mil is really that far fetched considering you think he should be able to compete for such an award.

  22. #194

    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    Just FYI, since you think he's 6th man of the year caliber, let's have the salaries of the past few 6MOTY awards:

    2012 Harden: 5.8 mil on a rookie contract (now makes 13.7 mil)
    2011 Odom: 8.9 mil
    2010 Crawford: 7.9mil per year contract (toward the end of the contract he was making around 10 mil that year)
    2009 Terry: 9.5 mil per year contract

    I don't think 8 mil is really that far fetched considering you think he should be able to compete for such an award.


    Hill got 8 mil to be the starting PG, not a 6th Man.

    Hill is more comparable to Felton and Lowry. I'd throw in Jarrett Jack too.

    Felton
    15/2.5/7... 42.5% FG... 39% 3PT... 68% FT... 14.85 for 4 years.

    Lowry
    18/5.5/6... 42% FG... 38% 3PT... 82% FT... 11.9il for 2 years.

    Jack
    10/3/4.5... 47% FG... 32% 3PT... 87% FT... 5.5 mil as a B/U PG.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Hill got 8 mil to be the starting PG, not a 6th Man.

    Hill is more comparable to Felton and Lowry. I'd throw in Jarrett Jack too.

    Felton
    15/2.5/7... 42.5% FG... 39% 3PT... 68% FT... 14.85 for 4 years.

    Lowry
    18/5.5/6... 42% FG... 38% 3PT... 82% FT... 11.9il for 2 years.

    Jack
    10/3/4.5... 47% FG... 32% 3PT... 87% FT... 5.5 mil as a B/U PG.
    In my opinion, a quality starting point guard is worth more than a sixth man. I was responding to a post saying vociferously that Hill was paid too much, for the wrong role. Hill is gonna play the role that works best for our team over the long run, so the role that he is signed for is imo irrelevant when you're looking at salary. It seems silly to say somebody has the talent of a 6th man of the year player but is overpaid when in reality what he's making is right in line.

    I will agree that for the cost, Felton and Lowry are playing better for the salary they're getting when you compare them to Hill. However, Felton is coming off of a subpar season plus, and Lowry has an injury riddled past. They are bargains in this NBA, not the normal price.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 12-08-2012 at 08:24 PM. Reason: clarification

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Hill got 8 mil to be the starting PG, not a 6th Man.

    Hill is more comparable to Felton and Lowry. I'd throw in Jarrett Jack too.

    Felton
    15/2.5/7... 42.5% FG... 39% 3PT... 68% FT... 14.85 for 4 years.

    Lowry
    18/5.5/6... 42% FG... 38% 3PT... 82% FT... 11.9il for 2 years.

    Jack
    10/3/4.5... 47% FG... 32% 3PT... 87% FT... 5.5 mil as a B/U PG.
    Felton's deal is a result of that awful year he had in Portland.

    Lowry will ask for $10mil/year at least when his contract is up, don't you worry.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Hill's got a 3:1 assist/turnover. 11th in the league. That really surprised me, for a guy that's not a PG and all. Maybe we bid against ourselves during his RFA period and coulda played more hardball, but I don't really get how you can watch Hill this year and not think 8 mil a year is at least reasonable compensation. It's not worth complaining about at all.

    Griping about Roy's money I get, his deal's looking pretty damn terrible, but complaining about Hill's is just looking for an excuse to grind your axe.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Yeah, that's about the best way I can think of to summarize Hill's contract: Probably overpaid, odd that we didn't test the market, but ultimately not enough overpaid to be complaining about it. He's a good, smart (usually), tough, two way guard who is easy to root for and a hometown guy to boot. Nothing to see here, move along!

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Hill's got a 3:1 assist/turnover. 11th in the league. That really surprised me, for a guy that's not a PG and all.
    A.J. Price is 6th in the league in the same stat. Worse yet, Chris Duhon is 2nd. If you check out his assists per 48 minutes, he's down at 37th - behind A.J., D.J., J.J. and DC. Just goes to show you that one stat can't not tell you nothing.

    I don't expect him to put up big numbers. He should be our worst starter when all is said and done, and there's nothing wrong with that considering the guys around him. He's just gotta be solid, and save for a few games/quarters he has been just that.

    I won't complain about his contract any more than I have, but I will push back against All-Star talk until the numbers back it up.
    Last edited by LoneGranger33; 12-08-2012 at 11:47 PM.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Yeah, that's about the best way I can think of the summarize Hill's contract: Probably overpaid, odd that we didn't test the market, but ultimately not enough overpaid to be complaining about it. He's a good, smart (usually), tough, two way guard who is easy to root for and a hometown guy to boot. Nothing to see here, move along!
    Yea, I guess that's the most reasonable summation of it at the end of the day.

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