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Thread: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

  1. #151
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by MvPlumlee View Post
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    Portland did us a favor by offering him that contract.
    I realize that I'm quoting one sentence taken out of context from your post. However, there is no way in heck that anyone should allow this statement to go unchallenged... because it is exactly 180 degrees from the truth.

    Have you ever sat back and thought about how the summer's signings and trades went? Well, specifically how they could have gone differently?

    Well, Portland making their early offer was the first domino that fell in what many on this forum believe to be a catastrophic summer of us not getting the players that we need to become true contenders in the NBA.

    This minute Portland made that offer, we were compelled to commit to Hibbert, thus knowing that a significant portion of our cap space was about to disappear. This, and ultimately signing Hill early, eventually put us in a position that we were not able to sign some of the better players that were bought out or "amnestied" later.

    In other words, Portland making their offer early forced the Pacers to put a rush on everything they wanted to do last summer.

    There is no worse thing that could have happened to the Pacers last summer than another team making a run and Hibbert and/or Hill early.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    I realize that I'm quoting one sentence taken out of context from your post. However, there is no way in heck that anyone should allow this statement to go unchallenged... because it is exactly 180 degrees from the truth.

    Have you ever sat back and thought about how the summer's signings and trades went? Well, specifically how they could have gone differently?

    Well, Portland making their early offer was the first domino that fell in what many on this forum believe to be a catastrophic summer of us not getting the players that we need to become true contenders in the NBA.

    This minute Portland made that offer, we were compelled to commit to Hibbert, thus knowing that a significant portion of our cap space was about to disappear. This, and ultimately signing Hill early, eventually put us in a position that we were not able to sign some of the better players that were bought out or "amnestied" later.

    In other words, Portland making their offer early forced the Pacers to put a rush on everything they wanted to do last summer.

    There is no worse thing that could have happened to the Pacers last summer than another team making a run and Hibbert and/or Hill early.
    Everybody with an inkling of a clue knew Roy was going to get a max offer as soon as free agency opened. This includes the Pacers. Nothing Portland did caught them off guard or "sped up the process". It was exactly what was expected.
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  4. #153
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    I realize that I'm quoting one sentence taken out of context from your post. However, there is no way in heck that anyone should allow this statement to go unchallenged... because it is exactly 180 degrees from the truth.

    Have you ever sat back and thought about how the summer's signings and trades went? Well, specifically how they could have gone differently?

    Well, Portland making their early offer was the first domino that fell in what many on this forum believe to be a catastrophic summer of us not getting the players that we need to become true contenders in the NBA.

    This minute Portland made that offer, we were compelled to commit to Hibbert, thus knowing that a significant portion of our cap space was about to disappear. This, and ultimately signing Hill early, eventually put us in a position that we were not able to sign some of the better players that were bought out or "amnestied" later.

    In other words, Portland making their offer early forced the Pacers to put a rush on everything they wanted to do last summer.

    There is no worse thing that could have happened to the Pacers last summer than another team making a run and Hibbert and/or Hill early.
    Bringing Walsh was worse in my opinion.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Bringing Walsh was worse in my opinion.
    Or, alternatively, Bird leaving.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Everybody with an inkling of a clue knew Roy was going to get a max offer as soon as free agency opened. This includes the Pacers. Nothing Portland did caught them off guard or "sped up the process". It was exactly what was expected.
    I'm not saying that the Pacers were caught by surprise by the timing or the amount. What I am saying is that committing to Hibbert early in the free agency period tied their hands as far as what they might have been able to accomplish late/later in the free agency signing period. Signing Hibbert was the first domino that fell in putting the shackles on what might have been accomplished had Hibbert's signing occurred later.

    In that regard, neither Portland nor Hibbert did the Pacers any favors. If either Portland had not made the early offer or if Hibbert had refused to sign Portland's offer sheet until later in the summer, the Pacers might have been able to swing a couple of deals for better players than they eventually signed. Somewhere along the line, I think we have to consider that either Hibbert's first choice was to sign with Portland all along, or there was not enough trust existing between Hibbert and the Pacers for Hibbert to risk delaying signing anyone's offer sheet. After all, assuming Hibbert realized that his likelihood of returning to the Pacers was extremely high (whether that was his desire or not), wouldn't it also benefit Hibbert that the Pacers have as much flexibility as possible for improving the roster? The only way the Pacers would have been able to do that would have been by delaying the signing of Hibbert.

    It didn't take a genious to figure that one out. Therefore, my conclusion that either Hibbert may have wanted to leave or that there was not mutual trust between team and player.

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  8. #156
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Remember when we didn't know how much every player made, not specifically anyway, we just knew they were pretty much all rich. Maybe I was just too young so I didn't care, but I have no clue how much Dale Davis EVER made, same with Jackson, hell I only knew Reggie made 11+ million a few years because it was a huge deal when he was a FA and everyone was talking about him going to the Knicks.

    I don't really know what my point is, I follow the CBA stuff fairly closely, but it was just a lot more fun when I didn't know or care. No matter how good a guy may play there'll be people saying he's not worth the money. I don't know, just gotten so argumentative it takes a lot of the fun out of it.

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  10. #157

    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    I realize that I'm quoting one sentence taken out of context from your post.
    That's ok. It bothers me more that you still think those are my words.

    If you could be so kind to take a look at this page:
    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...-Houston/page8
    You'll see that I actually agree with you.

  11. #158

    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    Just an observation. I think you're posing what is called a false equivalency. [someone please correct me if I'm wrong.]

    It seems that hating/not liking is way more likely to lead to irrationality than loving/liking. IMO, at least an order of magnitude greater.
    I disagree.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Everybody with an inkling of a clue knew Roy was going to get a max offer as soon as free agency opened.
    Gee. Thanks.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Bringing Walsh was worse in my opinion.
    I agree. Right now I just want Walsh to set on his butt, collect a big paycheck and leave this team alone. No more free agent signings and no more trades. He's done enough damage already, I'd rather wait it out with what we have until Walsh is gone.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Gee. Thanks.
    Did you not? If so, I didn't intend to demean. I just thought everyone knew what was going on at the time.
    Last edited by BRushWithDeath; 12-04-2012 at 12:52 PM.
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    fwiw I didn't think he'd be offered a max contract until he was. I'm a newb though.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Did you not? If so, I didn't mean to demean. I just thought everyone knew what was going on at the time.
    I thought there was a decent possibility that he might, but I hoped he wouldn't get one. If I would have had to guess what his starting salary offer would be, I would have said 11-12 million.

    Though he was very productive as a center (most of the time), he certainly wasn't dominant. And giving a non-dominant player a contract that will eventually be paying him over $15 million per year is frankly a bigger risk than resigning the same player. Because he proved last year he can play a vital role in our system. And he still is this year, even with his offensive struggles.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Did you not? If so, I didn't mean to demean. I just thought everyone knew what was going on at the time.
    I knew it could happen, but I thought there was a decent chance it wouldn't. I thought GM's would have the same concerns/reservations about Roy that most of us do and that it might be serious enough to scare them off from throwing the max at him.

    So while in hindsight I feel like I probably should have known, I really did think at the time he might get less. Like between 11-13 a year vs 14.5.

    That having been said, even when Roy did get the max offer I was fully behind matching it because I feel like it was too important to let them go.

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  19. #165
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    I knew it could happen, but I thought there was a decent chance it wouldn't. I thought GM's would have the same concerns/reservations about Roy that most of us do and that it might be serious enough to scare them off from throwing the max at him.

    So while in hindsight I feel like I probably should have known, I really did think at the time he might get less. Like between 11-13 a year vs 14.5.

    That having been said, even when Roy did get the max offer I was fully behind matching it because I feel like it was too important to let them go.
    Roy will be worth the max when and if he gets his mind together for offense.

    If past is prologue, this will happen off and on. I expect him to be hot on offense again at some point during this season.

    If Roy's constant progression progresses to him becoming more and more streaky good than streaky bad, then we can probably handle his max contract.

    Also, it's about playoffs. If he decides to lay an egg offensively during most playoff runs, we probably screwed up signing him.

    So, we get to wait and see. He will always be an important anchor for the defense. He's worth many millions. But we simply have to pull out the popcorn and watch over the next several years to see if the max was a good idea.
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  21. #166
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    That having been said, even when Roy did get the max offer I was fully behind matching it because I feel like it was too important to let them go.
    That was the only, and still is the best, option.

    Roy's contract isn't the reason we haven't improved. Not one iota.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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  23. #167
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    There is only one person that will convince me he is worth 40 million and George sure hasn't proved it at all.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    There is only one person that will convince me he is worth 40 million and George sure hasn't proved it at all.
    Of course you come in here after he has 1 poor game.

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  26. #169
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    I feel about the same as I did in July; I thought he was worth about 6 or 7 per year, but I'm not going to cry because he got 8. I agree that it's odd that we didn't let the market set the price, though. Did we really worry someone would pay him over 8 per? I took the time heading into free agency to scout to see who might throw him a lot of money, and I didn't come up with anyone who I felt would overpay him. That was honestly strange to me. Still not upset, but it may have been a needless mistake nonetheless.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    I feel about the same as I did in July; I thought he was worth about 6 or 7 per year, but I'm not going to cry because he got 8. I agree that it's odd that we didn't let the market set the price, though. Did we really worry someone would pay him over 8 per? I took the time heading into free agency to scout to see who might throw him a lot of money, and I didn't come up with anyone who I felt would overpay him. That was honestly strange to me. Still not upset, but it may have been a needless mistake nonetheless.

    My opinion was that Hill was not super keen on staying in Indiana and management knew this so they made a play to show him how much they wanted him... No facts to base this on... Just my thoughts...
    Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

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  29. #171
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Maybe there was a compromise, Hill gets 8 a year but he signs off on a flat rate instead of demanding raises at a deal starting at ~7, which saves us money. Maybe he demanded 8 or said he'll play out the year on his qualifying offer and walk, which I REALLY doubt, but never know.

    I don't like that we didn't let his RFA status play out, but it's not like any of us were in the room.

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  31. #172
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by J7F View Post
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    My opinion was that Hill was not super keen on staying in Indiana and management knew this so they made a play to show him how much they wanted him... No facts to base this on... Just my thoughts...
    The thing of it is, he didn't have much choice if he wanted to get paid now. He was our restricted free agent. He could have signed elsewhere, and we could then match the contract.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by J7F View Post
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    My opinion was that Hill was not super keen on staying in Indiana and management knew this so they made a play to show him how much they wanted him... No facts to base this on... Just my thoughts...
    I think that was more of an isolated incident that was overplayed by peoples paranoia.

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  34. #174
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    I'm excited to see Hill play against Lillard tonight. He (Lillard) has had a great so far, especially for a rookie, and I think Hill's veteran leadership will greatly affect Lillards play.

  35. #175
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
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    Of course you come in here after he has 1 poor game.
    Just one bad game...
    I never thought he was worth more then 6 mil per, which is well documented on this site since last spring, but again, I have a hard time with his current deal.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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