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Thread: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Why did we turn down GHill's $7 million offer mid season last year if we were to simply hand him an immediate $8 million when summer negotiations started?

    Different management, Bird is the one that turned that deal down, remember that Walsh came here after the season was over and as always Walsh likes to overpay.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Different management, Bird is the one that turned that deal down, remember that Walsh came here after the season was over and as always Walsh likes to overpay.
    I'm no Walsh fan, but nobody LIKES to overpay. Is dumb enough to overpay maybe, but he isn't sitting there saying "who can we overpay for today!"

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I've often wondered exactly that. My personal conclusion is that Hill had been in contact with other team(s) and had been offered something verbally, or said he was offered something verbally, because holding out and not signing the extension during the season when GH was asking for 7.5per (I think that was the number) and then giving him 8 doesn't make any sense at face value.
    This is why I think either Hill had interest from other teams, or he convinced our FO that he had some major interest from other teams. Any other conclusion isn't logical.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I'm no Walsh fan, but nobody LIKES to overpay. Is dumb enough to overpay maybe, but he isn't sitting there saying "who can we overpay for today!"
    His record shows that he overpays, I don't know if he likes it but he overpays must of the time, for example Croshere, JO, Tinsley, Amare, Chandler, now Roy, Hill, Green, Mahinmi, this are just examples from the top of my head but I can come up with more.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    They are not playing like they played in pre-season, they are playing how they have been playing for a big part of their careers during the regular season, Green and Mahinmi have been end of the bench players and in Green's case he was out of the NBA for a reason, they are just not that good.
    Greens problem dealt more with his attitude and growth than it did with his actual game play, and again, it is early in the season, we don't even have a consistent rotation, as far as Mahinmi he is actually playing a lot worst than he has before in his career, Blocks are up a lot, but he is shooting less than 40% when in the past he has always been above 55%. The justification you gave was just wrong, sorry.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    13.8 ppg and 5.3 apg, may not sound like great numbers but the Pacers made the right move signing him for that amount of money. Hill has made 2 game winning shots this season last night and @ Toronto in the opener, even last season Hill was ranked top 10 in the NBA in his productions in the final 2 minutes, the dude is clutch. I know some people say we over payed for him but I disagree, Hill was worth every bit of it. We have two players we can go to for buckets when we need them and that is George Hill and David West.
    I agree. However, I'd like to see the clutch stats you're talking about. Is that on 82games.com or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    The counter-argument would be that if George Hill played better before the final two minutes of the game, we wouldn't have needed the heroics. I mean, the guy spotted the Lakers at least four points on easy fast breaks last night, and in the first half he only managed three points against All-NBA defenders Darius Morris and Chris Duhon. His shooting has been atrocious all season and his passing remains sub-par for a starting point guard. In a season where we desperately need consistency from our players (and we're certainly not getting it from Hibbert and George), Hill hasn't delivered. You could argue that he's been the second best player on the team thus far, but the team is only 7-8.

    He hasn't shied away from the big moments, and he's hit more game-winners than I can remember, but let's judge the guy on the entirety of his work - every game, every minute. The front office already gave him $40 million based on a ten-game run. They overpaid because they remembered the good and forgot the bad. Let us not make the same mistake.
    Agreed. And because of that, I'm very happy to have him, even at $8M. Why? Because there are 2 players that absolutely make the biggest difference for this team when they are on or off the floor: Hill and West. Against LA, the very moment Hill goes out, the offense stops moving the ball and getting clean looks. I mean, it was crazy how fast things turned offensively.

    If they measured hockey assists, things would look different. However, everyone judges based on the assists number, and on a team like Indiana we just aren't racking a bunch of those up. First, we run a lot of clear outs for West and PG. Second, the offense is built around making the extra pass, so Hill initiates the offense, but typically won't get an assist.

    I would argue that Hill HAS delivered. He's playing with a 5 that can't shoot, a 3 that takes awful jumpers, and a 2 that is still growing/much better in transition. Things have gotten better nearly every game, this team has outplayed San Antonio and LA in 7 of the last 8 quarters. There has been clear improvement of late, lets see if/when the improvement stops. The Pacers are trending upwards, and I believe Hill is a key reason for it.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Greens problem dealt more with his attitude and growth than it did with his actual game play
    Attitude and growth is included on the evaluation of a player isn't it? and is not like his actual game was that good either, he got much better but is still not good enough for him to earn the contract he got.


    and again, it is early in the season, we don't even have a consistent rotation, as far as Mahinmi he is actually playing a lot worst than he has before in his career, Blocks are up a lot, but he is shooting less than 40% when in the past he has always been above 55%. The justification you gave was just wrong, sorry.
    I got to watch Ian a lot in Dallas and he looks like the same guy to me, yes he was good in pre-season but it was pre-season....

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    His record shows that he overpays, I don't know if he likes it but he overpays must of the time, for example Croshere, JO, Tinsley, Amare, Chandler, now Roy, Hill, Green, Mahinmi, this are just examples from the top of my head but I can come up with more.
    Well JO and Amare weren't being overpaid until they got injured. I don't think Tyson Chandler is overpaid for the impact that he has on the game.

    It's way too early to be able to tell about our current guys, but I bet Roy ends up overpaid, and maybe Green. I personally don't mind the Mahinmi and Hill deals, thought they could've been a yr shorter.

    I follow what you're saying though. I dislike Walsh tbh, and I hope we either allow Pritchard to call more shots, or bring Bird back before we allow Walsh to make more FO mistakes.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    It's impossible to know how often Walsh overpays, for a number of reasons. The biggest is because we're not privvy to information on the players that Walsh had a shot a signing, but then turned down because he thought they were asking too much.

    Am I saying he does it often? No. I'm simply saying we don't know, so trying to make conclusions from half of the situation is pretty hard to do.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    I don't remember, how many years was the midseason offer for? And was it a $7.5M average on an increasing contract that would have perhaps been $9M+ in the last year? The difference between $7M and $8M might have been the requirement to keep it a flat contract, making it much more tradeable down the road than one that increased to above that number.
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    It was 6mil a year but we don't know the salary increase.

    Stock up: Pacers PG George Hill is helping his value. He turned down a $6 million-per-year extension before the season and now might get more this summer as a restricted free agent. The Spurs and Tim Duncan, especially, want him to return to San Antonio, but San Antonio might not be able to afford him. New York Daily News

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    It was 6mil a year but we don't know the salary increase.
    Wait, HE turned it down, the Pacers didn't. How is this one relevant to the discussion that the Pacers could have had him for cheaper mid-season?
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Blatche was a risk, wouldn't you agree? Some risks pay off but not all of them do. Would you prefer the Pacers to take a risk on Blatche and thus having no back-up C if it didn't work out?

    PS: Or would you prefer us to bring the 38 year-old Stackhouse instead of Gerald Green?

    Blatche needed to get out of Washington... PERIOD! The culture there was detrimental to him. I've wanted Blatche, since he was a RFA. Unfortunately, the Pacers still had David Harrison, so there was no reason to get Blatche. We all know how that turned out! Some cities/teams aren't good for players. Good example was Portland for Z-Bo. You could make a case for Tinsley and Indy/Pacers as well. I wince everytime I see the Tinjury ast # in the daily box scores.

    I've heard all the stories about Blatche same as I heard all the stories about Z-Bo. Different teams can change a player. Not to mention Blatche is on a ONE YEAR contract like Augustin. I'll bet the ole family farm that Blatche produces more on his one year contract than Augustin does. Any takers? I thought not!

    Blatche is an ABSOLUTE STEAL at $854,389. He can play both the 4 & 5, and produce. He's not up in age like both JO and Rasheed who are producing on $854,389 contracts. It was an absolute blunder for not picking up Blatche for $854,389. But hey, Walsh traded 2 players to sign Mahinmi to 4 mil a year on a 4 guaranteed year contract. Walsh is paying 79% more for Mahinmi for less production. Someone tell me again why Walsh was re-hired to run the Pacers?

    I NEVER said I was interested in Jerry Stackhouse, now did I? I just pointed out he contributed to the Nets bench success last night. I'm surprised any team even picked him up this year. He was a benchsitter and towel waiver last season in Atlanta. Personally, I'd rather have a player like the Nets seldom used Marshon Brooks than Stackhouse anyday everyday.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Why did we turn down GHill's $7 million offer mid season last year if we were to simply hand him an immediate $8 million when summer negotiations started?


    DARN GOOD QUESTION!

    Maybe Checkbook Donnie thought Hill needed a little extra spending money.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Wait, HE turned it down, the Pacers didn't. How is this one relevant to the discussion that the Pacers could have had him for cheaper mid-season?
    I thought it was important to know how much he turned down.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I thought it was important to know how much he turned down.
    OK. Were you able to find anything on the deal the Pacers supposedly turned down?
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    OK. Were you able to find anything on the deal the Pacers supposedly turned down?
    I think that was it, the Pacers offered him 6mil a year he turned down and they moved on, maybe there was another offer? I don't know.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    DARN GOOD QUESTION!

    Maybe Checkbook Donnie thought Hill needed a little extra spending money.

    Not really if you just look at each situation within the proper time frame. When we were negotiating with him during the season it was as a back-up. When we were negotiating with him in the offseason it was as a starter. He had a lot more leverage in the offseason than during the season.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I think that was it, the Pacers offered him 6mil a year he turned down and they moved on, maybe there was another offer? I don't know.
    Some of the comments here are springboarding off the idea that he offered to accept either $7M or $7.5M and the Pacers turned it down. Starting negotiating at $6M and ending at $8M isn't nearly as insane as having the chance to buy for $7M and then buying at $8M would have been.
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    I love the idea that has arisen on PD that Donnie Walsh is the only GM in the history of the NBA who has ever overspent on a player. Just too funny. Let's look at the teams just in our own division who have overspent:

    Bulls: Boozer, and now Taj Gibson.

    Bucks: How about 5 year/32 million on Drew freaking Gooden in 2010? They decided to take on Beno Udrih's crazy contract too.

    Pistons: Charlie Villanueva. Ben Gordon. Enough said.

    Cavaliers: Remember when they paid Larry Hughes all the money in the world after they lost out on Michael Redd? Right now though, their contracts are pretty good. Only team in our division that hasn't gone crazy, but that is mostly because of what happened with the decision.

    The lesson here? Every team makes bad contracts. Every GM has made a bad deal at some point. MOST GMS in the NBA have a history of overspending. Welcome to the league we live in and have fostered.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Some of the comments here are springboarding off the idea that he offered to accept either $7M or $7.5M and the Pacers turned it down. Starting negotiating at $6M and ending at $8M isn't nearly as insane as having the chance to buy for $7M and then buying at $8M would have been.
    I haven't found anything anywhere that says the Pacers turned down an offer at a $7.5M extension. All that happened was Indiana offered a $6M extension, which was turned down by Hill/his agent.

    Indiana never had the chance to sign George for $7.5M

    I'm not sure how that ever got started.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
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    I haven't found anything anywhere that says the Pacers turned down an offer at a $7.5M extension. All that happened was Indiana offered a $6M extension, which was turned down by Hill/his agent.

    Indiana never had the chance to sign George for $7.5M

    I'm not sure how that ever got started.

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/archive/...p/t-69168.html

    I'm thinking there were other sources, but I'm not going to dig too deep on it. The story being told at the time was that the Pacers wanted him for 6M and he wanted 7.5M per.

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  29. #73

    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    I'll take it for now. We need more guys like him badly on our team.

    Like I said before, David West and George Hill are the only two players who don't look like they're wetting the bed when the going gets tough. Everyone else looks scared, I feel like its because they come from other successful teams

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    And you know that because? even Lou had some good games once in a while, for example 21 points and 8 rebounds against Portland last year, or 11 and 10 against New Orleans, one game doesn't make the 4mil a year for the next 4 years to Ian a good deal and one game doesn't make him a good player either.
    Simply because Lou wouldn't make 7 out of his 10 FTs. Having your back-up big shoot 70% from the line is a big commodity.

    Yes, Lou had some great games and for all I know he could play great against LA if he was brought back (and mind you, I was not against bringing back Lou, I still love the guy) but there's no way that he would go 7 - 10 from the line. And without that 7 - 10 we're not winning this game. Plain and simple.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I got to watch Ian a lot in Dallas and he looks like the same guy to me, yes he was good in pre-season but it was pre-season....
    How a player looks to you (or anyone) and how a player plays according to the stats are two different things.

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