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Thread: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    Omer Asik is significantly more valuable than George Hill. I do know no team had the cap space to make GH that kind of offer. I do know no team did offer it because we signed an RFA in such a rush, for no apparent reason, instead of waiting for him to get an offer. Do you really think someone out there was waiting around for the end of the RFA time period to throw GH a 10M a year deal? No? Neither do I nor any other reasonable person on Earth does either.
    Asik may be more valuable NOW, but prior to this season he was noting but a big physical body that could clog the lane. Meanwhile Hill had shown the ability to be a valuable contributor on playoff teams. We don't know who may have been interested in Hill. But when you compare him to other players making the same amount, he's not grossly overpaid to the point that it's a detriment to the team.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    I was a guy that wanted Hill since the day he was drafted by San Antonio(yes I was looking at the "green grass") I was also happy when they made the trade for him, I really like what he brings to the Pacers and with all that said I think the Pacers overpay for him a bit.

    I would also like to say that Hill's overpaying is the less worse of the Pacers overpaying problems this off season, Ian, Green and Roy are the contracts people should complain about because they are just horrible.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    By the way if you are mad at Hill's contract I'm telling you to get yourself ready to be disappointed with West's new contract next year.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Me too. I've stated this several times, but I also think he can give a little more effort than he has. He just now getting into bball shape and he played with a wrap on his thumb for weeks so I expect he'll improve in all facets of the game as the season rolls along.
    I think we keep overlooking that Hill missed all of the preseason with that hip-pointer and thumb injury. I believe that if Danny was healthy at the start of the season, he might've sat out the first couple of games. I expect his shooting accuracy to come back if the thumb injury fully heals.

    I reserve all judgement on his contract until the end of the season. Getting into it at this point is useless. There are way too many games left to play.

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  6. #30
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    The Bulls/Knicks did not have full Bird rights on Asik/Lin. The poison pill is actually the NBA trying to help teams in the Bulls and Knicks situation retain their players. Before, if Houston had offered a deal with that amount of money to Lin/Asik, the Bulls and Knicks would have been prohibited from matching. Now they can match but since they don't have full Bird rights, they would have had to match it by only paying 5 million the first two years and then a huge jump up, which is where the poison pill was. It's just a way for teams over the cap to be able to keep their players and still satisfy cap rules.

    The Pacers did have full Bird rights on Hill. So there was zero potential for a poison pill contract and the Pacers could have matched whatever contract Hill got on the market. The Pacers must have either wanted the certainty of that 5th year, or been so close on money that they couldn't take the risk of Hill going onto the market even if he very likely would have signed for less.
    The Pacers would still have had to match the terms of the contract--it's not about whether they could or not. With Hibbert and George's contract's rising, my argument was merely that they would not have been able to afford a poison pill-structured contract, given future cap considerations.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    The Pacers would still have had to match the terms of the contract--it's not about whether they could or not. With Hibbert and George's contract's rising, my argument was merely that they would not have been able to afford a poison pill-structured contract, given future cap considerations.
    In Hill's situation, there was no worry about a poison pill contract. Other teams would not have been allowed to give him such a contract. It violates cap rules. The contract wouldn't have to be flat like the Pacers gave him, but there are strict rules on how much the contract can be raised or lowered from year 1. What happened in the Lin/Asik situation could not have happened to the Pacers and Hill.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I was a guy that wanted Hill since the day he was drafted by San Antonio(yes I was looking at the "green grass") I was also happy when they made the trade for him, I really like what he brings to the Pacers and with all that said I think the Pacers overpay for him a bit.

    I would also like to say that Hill's overpaying is the less worse of the Pacers overpaying problems this off season, Ian, Green and Roy are the contracts people should complain about because they are just horrible.
    I agree with all of them except Roy. His contract is the going market for what he is worth he is an all star center and you can't take that away from him regardless of how he comes back and plays.
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    He's been a solid PG. He's racking up more assists and has become a better leader at the point. He's kept the offensive flow moving.

    In comparison to Collison and when he was here starting, Hill is the more trustworthy starting PG.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    fact is you don't know if there was competition for him, you are assuming that there was no competition for him, the Rockets signed Omer Asik for over 8 mil a year, you can't tell me that you know for sure no team offered Hill, because you don't know.

    You act like it was a top secret that another team was interested in Hill, and no one knew anything about it! This is the NBA where rumors galore abide. The NBA isn't the CIA where secrets abound.

    The point is Walsh was bidding against himself. Hill was a RFA which gave Walsh a chance to match an offer sheet from another team. "NO" NBA team signed Hill to an offer sheet. There is a reason for that. No other teams were interested. IIRC, Hill turned down an offer from Bird previously. The number 7 mil seems to stick in my mind. Other teams weren't interested in Hill at that type of money. Checkbook Donnie rushed in bid against himself, and overpaid Hill when there was no reason to do so. That's why Hill is overpaid. If Hill had stayed in San Antonio, do you truly think RC Buford would have given Hill anything close to a 5 year 40 mil contract?? If you do, then I have some ocean front property down in Brown county I'd like to sell you.

    I felt all long, and I'm on record saying I felt Hill was worth between 4.5 and 5.5 mil. 6 mil wouldn't have been too much, but "8" mil was just plain overpaying. Thank you Mr. Walsh!

    Let's compare Hill with another home state player.... Mike Conley. Both are PG's and Conley makes a little less salary this year. Conley is a TRUE PG, where as Hill isn't. Conley is averaging 15 PPG on 50% FG, 43% 3pt, 81.6% FT. Conley averages 6.5 Ast with a 2-1 Ast/TO ratio. Conley is a better PG and makes his team mates better players. There is no doubt which is the better bargain or means more to their respective team as their PG, and it sure isn't George Hill.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I believe you can say that about a lot of players in the team, specially all the new contracts.
    You could also say the opposite about the players we let go, though

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I would also like to say that Hill's overpaying is the less worse of the Pacers overpaying problems this off season, Ian, Green and Roy are the contracts people should complain about because they are just horrible.

    The salary isn't the issue it's the 3 & 4 year guaranteed contracts that are the problem.

    I was checking the daily scores this morning when I noticed a team winning a game with their bench scoring 55% of their points, over half the rebs, and 2 of the reserve/bench players making $854,389 in salary while combining for 34 pts and 14 rebs. What the shame is the Pacers could have had one of those players, and wouldn't have had to trade for Mahinmi. That bench/reserve player is averaging 9.5/5.5 in 17 MPG for $854,389. Now that's a travesity!
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 11-29-2012 at 11:56 AM.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I believe you can say that about a lot of players in the team, specially all the new contracts.
    Shut, you can say that about most of the players in the NBA, NBA contracts are in a large part built on potential, production is key as well, but how else do you explain a lot of these contracts being given out. We didn't overpay for Hill, for Hibbert, now that is a different story, but really in this market what are you to do.

    Hill is still young enough and is getting better in the PG role, I think he fits well with this team, and really has seemed like a leader.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    The salary isn't the issue it's the 3 & 4 year guaranteed contracts that are the problem.

    I was checking the daily scores this morning when I noticed a team winning a game with their bench scoring 55% of their points, over half the rebs, and 2 of the reserve/bench players making $854,389 in salary while combining for 34 pts and 14 rebs. What the shame is the Pacers could have had one of those players, and wouldn't have had to trade for Mahinmi. That bench/reserve player is averaging 9.5/5.5 in 17 MPG for $854,389. Now that's a travesity!
    I agree, there are many players for less than 1mil a year doing better things than Ian and Green, overpaying for those two was a huge mistake.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    You act like it was a top secret that another team was interested in Hill, and no one knew anything about it! This is the NBA where rumors galore abide. The NBA isn't the CIA where secrets abound.

    The point is Walsh was bidding against himself. Hill was a RFA which gave Walsh a chance to match an offer sheet from another team. "NO" NBA team signed Hill to an offer sheet. There is a reason for that. No other teams were interested. IIRC, Hill turned down an offer from Bird previously. The number 7 mil seems to stick in my mind. Other teams weren't interested in Hill at that type of money. Checkbook Donnie rushed in bid against himself, and overpaid Hill when there was no reason to do so. That's why Hill is overpaid. If Hill had stayed in San Antonio, do you truly think RC Buford would have given Hill anything close to a 5 year 40 mil contract?? If you do, then I have some ocean front property down in Brown county I'd like to sell you.

    I felt all long, and I'm on record saying I felt Hill was worth between 4.5 and 5.5 mil. 6 mil wouldn't have been too much, but "8" mil was just plain overpaying. Thank you Mr. Walsh!

    Let's compare Hill with another home state player.... Mike Conley. Both are PG's and Conley makes a little less salary this year. Conley is a TRUE PG, where as Hill isn't. Conley is averaging 15 PPG on 50% FG, 43% 3pt, 81.6% FT. Conley averages 6.5 Ast with a 2-1 Ast/TO ratio. Conley is a better PG and makes his team mates better players. There is no doubt which is the better bargain or means more to their respective team as their PG, and it sure isn't George Hill.
    Conley's salary THIS year is lower, but he is actually being paid 5 million more over the life of the contract. Also, Conley has been playing for the same team, with the same starting 5 for 3 years now. Chemistry and familiarity has as much to do with his numbers as his talent. Why do I say that? Because just last year he averaged 13 and 6, and before that 14 and 6 with respectable shooting %'s. (44% and 37% from 3) The bump in scoring has to do with the fact that he's shooting 50% from the field and 43% from 3, who knows if he'll be able to keep up with that pace, but his career says that he wont.

    Meanwhile this is Hill's first full year of being a PG, and his first full year as a starter for a Pacer team that is missing their best player, and has made a bunch of changes to their bench. He is coming off an injury in pre-season, and is easily having the WORST stretch of shooting within his career (normally 44% from the field and 37% from 3--the exact SAME as Conley).

    So bottom line, with Conley shooting the best he has throughout his career, and Hill shooting the worst within his career, the difference in points is a mere .9ppg and assists is 1.1apg. When you take into account the other factors (Hill's clutch ability, Hill coming off an injury, missing his team's best player, Hill being a first time starter, etc) I think it's clear that the numbers you spoke of for Conley are definitely not worth the EXTRA 5 million dollars throughout the life of the contract.

    So if you want to use Mike Conley as an example, then no, George Hill isnt overpaid.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I was checking the daily scores this morning when I noticed a team winning a game with their bench scoring 55% of their points, over half the rebs, and 2 of the reserve/bench players making $854,389 in salary while combining for 34 pts and 14 rebs. What the shame is the Pacers could have had one of those players, and wouldn't have had to trade for Mahinmi. That bench/reserve player is averaging 9.5/5.5 in 17 MPG for $854,389. Now that's a travesity!
    Blatche was a risk, wouldn't you agree? Some risks pay off but not all of them do. Would you prefer the Pacers to take a risk on Blatche and thus having no back-up C if it didn't work out?

    PS: Or would you prefer us to bring the 38 year-old Stackhouse instead of Gerald Green?

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    George Hill is not overpaid, he is a baller who is keeping this team afloat right now and he is not anywhere near 100%.
    *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I agree, there are many players for less than 1mil a year doing better things than Ian and Green, overpaying for those two was a huge mistake.
    So early in the year, if they can get back to how they played during the preseason they will look like bargains again.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    The reason why I think George Hill was overpay is because the marked was full of point guards, Hinrich,Watson,DJ,Felton, Fishers, Dwill, Dragic,etc, how many teams are really going to overpay for Hill? I think the Pacers had a chance to get a discount by letting the market set up his price and they screwed up.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    So early in the year, if they can get back to how they played during the preseason they will look like bargains again.
    They are not playing like they played in pre-season, they are playing how they have been playing for a big part of their careers during the regular season, Green and Mahinmi have been end of the bench players and in Green's case he was out of the NBA for a reason, they are just not that good.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Green and Mahinmi have been end of the bench players and in Green's case he was out of the NBA for a reason, they are just not that good.
    So, a "not that good" and "end of the bench" player was the reason we beat the Lakers?

    'Cause replace Ian with Lou (and I still love Lou, by the way) and we would have lost in LA.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The reason why I think George Hill was overpay is because the marked was full of point guards, Hinrich,Watson,DJ,Felton, Fishers, Dwill, Dragic,etc, how many teams are really going to overpay for Hill? I think the Pacers had a chance to get a discount by letting the market set up his price and they screwed up.
    Now I could see this point. However, outside of D-Will, maybe Dragic and Felton, none of those players are better than George. Dragic blew up last yr in his contract yr, and Felton was coming off a horrible yr 1/2 in POR and DEN, so he wasn't going to get much.

    George is fairly young still, and will only be 31 by the time this contract is complete. Now yes, we should've allowed him to test the waters, but had he gotten an outrageous offer, we'd be S.O.L. All it takes is one team to really like a player. So it works both ways.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    So, a "not that good" and "end of the bench" player was the reason we beat the Lakers?

    'Cause replace Ian with Lou (and I still love Lou, by the way) and we would have lost in LA.
    And you know that because? even Lou had some good games once in a while, for example 21 points and 8 rebounds against Portland last year, or 11 and 10 against New Orleans, one game doesn't make the 4mil a year for the next 4 years to Ian a good deal and one game doesn't make him a good player either.

  30. #48
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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Why did we turn down GHill's $7 million offer mid season last year if we were to simply hand him an immediate $8 million when summer negotiations started?

    .

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    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Why did we turn down GHill's $7 million offer mid season last year if we were to simply hand him an immediate $8 million when summer negotiations started?

    I've often wondered exactly that. My personal conclusion is that Hill had been in contact with other team(s) and had been offered something verbally, or said he was offered something verbally, because holding out and not signing the extension during the season when GH was asking for 7.5per (I think that was the number) and then giving him 8 doesn't make any sense at face value.

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    Default Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    Maybe because he hadn't taken the reins yet as the starting point guard, yet. He was also injured last winter with the shoulder deal.

    I mean its not that surprising a newly acquired back up combo guard with a bum shoulder is worth less in January than a starting point guard with a great winning percentage who leads his team up 2 to 1 over the eventual champs in May.

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