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Thread: Pacers/Lakers postgame

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by gknjr007 View Post
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    how did we get pacer fans in LA
    Aussie invasion.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Isn't it possible that the Pacers defense took them out of their game?
    Lakers are 13th in scoring, at just over 99pts per, and are 9th in the league in FG% at 45.4%. Just to put their 77pt 31.6fg% into perspective.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Isn't it possible that the Pacers defense took them out of their game?
    You are giving credit to the Pacers? Do you realize where you are?
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  6. #129
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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Lakers are 13th in scoring, at just over 99pts per, and are 9th in the league in FG% at 45.4%. Just to put their 77pt 31.6fg% into perspective.
    I need to go back and watch all of the recorded games some more, to look at it more closely. But I get the sense that the opposing teams are getting open looks (a significant percentage of the shots seem less contested). Perhaps we're just wearing them out physically?

    Opponent FGA are quite high (only two teams face more average FGA than Indy).

    Are there stats out there for percentages of contested shots by defensive team?

    Perhaps some data around distribution of shot locations against our defense?

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Lakers are 13th in scoring, at just over 99pts per, and are 9th in the league in FG% at 45.4%. Just to put their 77pt 31.6fg% into perspective.
    Both teams shot a horrible percentage last night, both teams missed a lot of open uncontested shots, both teams missed a lot of free throws, lets look a this numbers you are posting with a truck load of salt

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Both teams shot a horrible percentage last night, both teams missed a lot of open uncontested shots, lets look a this numbers you are posting with a truck load of salt
    So 15 games worth of fg% isn't enough to prove that the Pacers are pretty damn good defensively?

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So 15 games worth of fg% isn't enough to prove that the Pacers are pretty damn good defensively?
    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...alPct/split/11

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  13. #133

    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Smith View Post
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    On an unrelated note, just saw on espn that this is the 20th anniversary of reggies 57 point game.
    I was at that game! Will never forget the CHARLOTTE crowd chanting REG-GIE, and moaning when he just missed a three in the last minute that would have given him 60!

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So 15 games worth of fg% isn't enough to prove that the Pacers are pretty damn good defensively?
    I was talking about the game last night, yes the Pacers were good on D(specially Hibbert) but you can't just ignore the amount of open shots and free throws the Lakers missed last night you just can't.

    On the other side of the coin the Lakers numbers on D look great from last night too, does that mean they are a pretty good defensive team? no, the Pacers also missed a lot of open shots and free throws, you even said it yourself "if the Pacers learn how to play better offense they can be pretty good", it's not that the Lakers stop them as much as they were not able to execute and hit the open shots.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I was talking about the game last night, yes the Pacers were good on D(specially Hibbert) but you can't just ignore the amount of open shots and free throws the Lakers missed last night you just can't.
    When it continues to happen game after game after game, with teams that scored well before and after the playing the Pacers, then I don't think it can just be chalked up to missing shots.

    Pacers are horrible offensively, so when their offensive numbers are horrible, it's hard to give defense credit. That's the difference.

    There's no need to be a salt truck driver, just because someone said something completely factually correct.

    LA might have a crappy record, but offensively, they're a pretty good offensive team and have been really good since MDA took over.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I was talking about the game last night, yes the Pacers were good on D(specially Hibbert) but you can't just ignore the amount of open shots and free throws the Lakers missed last night you just can't.

    On the other side of the coin the Lakers numbers on D look great from last night too, does that mean they are a pretty good defensive team? no, the Pacers also missed a lot of open shots and free throws, you even said it yourself "if the Pacers learn how to play better offense they can be pretty good", it's not that the Lakers stop them as much as they were not able to execute and hit the open shots.
    You're not taking the law of averages into account.

    The Pacers have been bad game after game offensively, so far this year. Look at the data.

    Lakers have had a statistically much more stout offense than the Pacers this year thus far.

    Teams who play the Pacers have been poor offensively, so far this year. Look at the data.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    You're not taking the law of averages into account.

    The Pacers have been bad game after game offensively, so far this year. Look at the data.
    I don't need data I have seen the games yes they suck on offense.

    Lakers have had a statistically much more stout offense than the Pacers this year thus far.
    Yes but their offense still sucks, they just have the talent to overcome that unlike the Pacers, that doesn't mean they were not missing open shots like crazy specially Artest and the scrub of Morris.

    Teams who play the Pacers have been poor offensively, so far this year. Look at the data.
    Again I don't need to look at any data I've seen the games, I agree.

    You guys are acting like I'm trying to trash the Pacers that is not my point, my point is to always look at the big picture, yes it's nice to show some data and numbers to prove a point and be all happy about it but at the same time you have to look at the other team bad play, on the Lakers case they just flat out sucked last night and yes the Pacers had something to do with it but not everything was because of the Pacers so is not like the Pacers shut them down as many are trying to portrait here.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So 15 games worth of fg% isn't enough to prove that the Pacers are pretty damn good defensively?
    Nope. Clearly all just luck that we play teams on a bad night. Except when we don't.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    You guys are acting like I'm trying to trash the Pacers that is not my point, my point is to always look at the big picture, yes it's nice to show some data and numbers to prove a point and be all happy about it but at the same time you have to look at the other team bad play, on the Lakers case they just flat out sucked last night and yes the Pacers had something to do with it but not everything was because of the Pacers so is not like the Pacers shut them down as many are trying to portrait here.
    I certainly wasn't focused on you. However, I agree with your basic points. Lakers had open shots that they simply missed. The Lakers looked like they "flat out sucked".

    My perspective, however, is that the majority of the teams we've played this year have looked similarly "sucky" and have also had open looks that they simply missed. There must be a reason for that. 15 games is getting beyond an aberrance. I want to try to gather some data in support of what might be happening.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    The only team that's looked pretty good offensively against us are the Spurs. And even the Spurs seemed to miss a lot of shots against the Pacers. (outside of Tony Parker)

    Teams do seem to miss open J's against us. My prediction is the fact that the Pacers are making teams work so hard to get open shots, that by the time the opposing player is open, they're are out of rhythm.

    The Pacers do a good job of making teams shoot long, contested 2's. It's almost like Vogel adopted a few principles from Thibideau/Doc Rivers-- clog the lane, and chase guys off the 3 pt line (especially the corner 3). The slightly open 19ft jumpshot is one of the lowest % shots in all of basketball.

    Also, the refs are letting the Pacers play a LOT more physically, especially on the inside. It seems to be a league-wide theme, but it definitely benefits a big, strong and physical team like the pacers. This is a big reason why MEM is playing so well right now, they're just beating the hell out of teams physically on the inside both offensively and defensively.

    The best way to attack the pacers is to have a big that can stretch the floor, and run pick and pops at Roy all game. Very few teams have the players that can run this to perfection, time after time (I.E the Spurs). If Mahinmi can continue to get himself comfortable, then he will easily be able to cover up this weakness as well. Out of all the things we can gripe about this team, defense definitely shouldn't be one of them. IMO
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 11-28-2012 at 04:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Nope. Clearly all just luck that we play teams on a bad night. Except when we don't.
    ... And nobody is saying that.


    Note: if I was as sarcastic as you are right now I'll be getting private messages from you to tone it down, I thought we are not supposed to do what you are doing?

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    ... And nobody is saying that.
    Everyone talks about the defense being "good" but the reason the opponent is scoring low is credited to something else. That implies that the Pacers are not playing good defense so much as our opponents have bad offenses. Except the ones who DO actually score, like San Antonio.

    And this is not so much a reaction to the board as it is to the national sports media, who continue to focus on the other team losing and often kind of fail to mention who they lost to. Yeah, it's because of who we're playing when it happens, but I'm still kind of tired of it being ignored. If teams were scoring a bazillion points per game on us you KNOW the topic would be how horrible the defense was, even if our offense still couldn't manage to score 75 in a game.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Note: if I was as sarcastic as you are right now I'll be getting private messages from you to tone it down, I thought we are not supposed to do what you are doing?
    I would hope I didn't do that after a couple of posts but after a bunch - or after it was starting to get heated. If I am making these comments out of context after another month (meaning without there still being people who discount the effect of the Pacers defense on games), then someone can (and should) tell me to tone it down.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    He's really dialed back shooting the three when the defense goes under the PnR. He still shot 4 of them last night, but they were much more in the offensive flow.
    The one thing I really really really hate is when he drives in, goes through the paint, then drives all the way back out. At that point, it's a guarantee he's gonna chuck up a low-percentage shot. I accept that he's a scoring guard, but I want to see him pass the ball in that situation.
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  30. #144
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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Just tell him to take some PED's so his shooting percentage goes up . ..... or maybe just tell him to stop taking stupid shots.
    Wide open at 15 feet coming up off your dribble into your shot is NOT a bad shot. If it was being closed out or defended in any way then maybe. But the 3 he hit was maybe the most defended of his shots. He's wicked quick laterally and really gets space off those types of moves.



    I should give more credit to Paul because he set up one dunk by Roy that was all PG driving through traffic. He's getting there, it's just taking time.

    And at this point I think it's safe to say that he's not getting the cheap rebounds. A lot of what he pulls down are contested and he's using his hops/length to make the plays. Having him at the 2/3 is a huge benefit with boards. It's to the point that I feel like I, and others, have been overlooking the quality of his rebounding impact.



    The team hasn't found that flow yet, but boy in some areas they are REALLY STRONG. Defense in general was epic. How many times did you see Young or Paul or Lance drive a guy right into a trap by West or a block by Roy. I really thought West showed great defensive activity which helped the team take advantage of what the wings were doing.

    And you can count on contested boards in any situations where the Pacers are in the lane (ie, not caught at the arc on a missed shot, etc). The length of the team overall is having a huge impact.

    So freaking close to being awesome. It's probably why the offense seems so frustrating because it doesn't even have to be good to win a lot of games.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    By the way I was looking at places were the Lakers can trade Gasol to and Minnesota makes so much sense is not even funny, Gasol + pick for Dwill, Varea and Roy, that could give D'Antoni the athletic power forward that can also shoot the jumper in Dwill plus and nice backup point guard that can also run his system.

    For Minny Gasol makes sense because they would finally have a legit center, a front court duo of Love and Gasol could be nice not only that but if Rubio comes back he'll be playing with his country man, Rubio, Luke, AK47, Love and Gasol? no bad.
    The Lakers will not trade an impact Player like Gasol to another Western Conference Team that will likely be a Playoff Bubble Team.

    As you suggested before.....something surrounding Gasol for Calderon+Bargnani with Toronto makes more sense.
    Last edited by CableKC; 11-28-2012 at 05:50 PM.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Isn't it possible that the Pacers defense took them out of their game?

    Sure looked like it to me. Granted, I haven't watched a lot of D12 this year, but he looked tired/frustrated last night.
    The Pacers defense was stifling at times. When Kobe got the ball....he was swarmed....whenever anyone tried to drive to the hoop.....they ended up getting mobbed by a forest of BlueNGold. I recall several plays where there was a frickin block party when anyone tried to get under the basket.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    TMJ31 - there is at least one other die hard Pacers fan in LA. Me! I never post over here. But, I was directly in front of maragin's suite last night (which looked awesome). He (or one of his friends) asked me if I was on digest and I said no, but that got me thinking that I should be. So I guess I should start posting.

    For the record, it's my birthday AND I had on the brand new George Hill 71-72 HWC Jersey that I bought in Indy last Friday at the Spurs game. I've got to imagine that's the reason we won....

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    The length of the team overall is having a huge impact.
    This is something that doesn't get noticed that much. There were many plays where the length of GH, Lance, PG, Young and Green were stifling against the Lakers backcourt. I recall seeing Kobe being swarmed against the sideline and couldn't get out of the mess....which often left to turnovers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    So freaking close to being awesome. It's probably why the offense seems so frustrating because it doesn't even have to be good to win a lot of games.
    Actually, it's great that the defense is above average.....but given that we've lost to many former Lottery Teams....the offense has to be WAY better than it is now to win games. Right now....the offense isn't even good....heck, it's not even average...it's way below average.

    You're right.....it doesn't mean that the Pacers have to be a super stellar scoring machine like Miami or OKC....but being one of the most offensively challenged teams in the league ( being bottom in the league in shooting FG% and points scored ) means that there is little room for mistakes.

    Yep....the offense will eventually improve and we will be way more formidable than we are now....but we still have to improve the scoring on this Team....even if it's a marginal improvement....until Granger returns.

    The first area of improvement obviously with the 2nd unit when it comes to scoring...which will mean less wear and tear on the Starters.
    Last edited by CableKC; 11-28-2012 at 06:57 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Wide open at 15 feet coming up off your dribble into your shot is NOT a bad shot. If it was being closed out or defended in any way then maybe. But the 3 he hit was maybe the most defended of his shots. He's wicked quick laterally and really gets space off those types of moves.
    He takes fadeway shots with one leg out thinking he is Kobe or something that is not a good shot, he is also a pretty dumb basketball player, I love how you like to ignore that.

    I should give more credit to Paul because he set up one dunk by Roy that was all PG driving through traffic. He's getting there, it's just taking time.

    And at this point I think it's safe to say that he's not getting the cheap rebounds. A lot of what he pulls down are contested and he's using his hops/length to make the plays. Having him at the 2/3 is a huge benefit with boards. It's to the point that I feel like I, and others, have been overlooking the quality of his rebounding impact.
    I've been saying this about Paul for a long time.


    The team hasn't found that flow yet, but boy in some areas they are REALLY STRONG. Defense in general was epic. How many times did you see Young or Paul or Lance drive a guy right into a trap by West or a block by Roy. I really thought West showed great defensive activity which helped the team take advantage of what the wings were doing.
    West and defense on the same sentence? lol

    And you can count on contested boards in any situations where the Pacers are in the lane (ie, not caught at the arc on a missed shot, etc). The length of the team overall is having a huge impact.

    So freaking close to being awesome. It's probably why the offense seems so frustrating because it doesn't even have to be good to win a lot of games.
    "So freaking close to be awesome"? yeah I really want to know what you are drinking or smoking unless "awesome" for you is just to make it to the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Lakers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by rel View Post
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    just noticed KDot behind Pringles at the end lol. No worries dude, you still got AOTY :P
    good kid.. M.A.D. City.

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