Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 81

Thread: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

  1. #51
    Undefeated
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Carmel
    Age
    37
    Posts
    970

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Are you kidding me. Lance is not in Evans league right now and won't be until the Pacers put the ball in his hands and let him do what he does best. Swap his and Hills roles and you might get some results. Hill is not a point, does not create or push the ball or pass the ball effectively and is way to lackadasial. He came out way too soft against Parker and got torched. Thats against a player he should know very well that he couldn't do that.
    Did Tyreke Evans all of a sudden get good?? The guy is a mediocre PG on a bad team (worse than the Pacers for sure.) He get's very few assists, and has essentially declined in every aspect of his game every year. The only thing going for him is that he's the fastest player in the NBA, when he's driving his Mercedes-Benz S550.
    Danger Zone

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rogco For This Useful Post:


  3. #52
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The Suns bid ended up costing them almost $14M when everything was said and done. That $4.5M is PER YEAR, not total. It would be nice if you could tell the difference, before you got on your soapbox.

    Soapbox or whatever you want to call it is the true, I know that you like to exaggerate things, saying that Phoenix won the Scola bid for 10+ mil sounds better to your point than saying that they won the bid for 4.5 mil a year, in other words you are trying to change the numbers so the people that are making the point say "OK yeah 10+ mil is a lot" without knowing that is divided in 3 years.

    But because the Pacers didn't get him, the conventional wisdom is that they didn't even try.....
    And I'm going to post that last part of your post to tell you again that THE PACERS DID NOT TRY, so the conventional wisdom that they tried is bs and you know it.

  4. #53
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yet if he came here he would be coming off the bench if Danny was healthy. If a player feels that they should be starting, but not willing to put in the effort to prove it I don't want them on my team. If he has to be guaranteed a spot and no competition for it we are better off without him. Look at what happened the last time we had players with that kind of attitude. I would rather have Lance who is working his *** off to become a better player.
    Show me an article or a report were Mayo is saying that he only cares to start. I'll be here waiting.

  5. #54
    Undefeated
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Carmel
    Age
    37
    Posts
    970

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    vnzla81, it pains me to say I agree with you about anything, but I do about Scola.
    Danger Zone

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rogco For This Useful Post:


  7. #55
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    20,986

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Soapbox or whatever you want to call it is the true, I know that you like to exaggerate things, saying that Phoenix won the Scola bid for 10+ mil sounds better to your point than saying that they won the bid for 4.5 mil a year, in other words you are trying to change the numbers so the people that are making the point say "OK yeah 10+ mil is a lot" without knowing that is divided in 3 years.
    And here you were just days ago complaining about arguing semantics.....

    I thought you'd realize that the total bid was for the length of the total contract, without me needing to point it out. Next time I'll know not to confuse you.

  8. #56
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And here you were just days ago complaining about arguing semantics.....

    I thought you'd be smart enough to realize that the total bid was for the length of the total contract, without me needing to point it out. Next time I'll know not to confuse you.
    It's not me who you are confusing, because I know what happened and I got to hear interview after interview from Pritchard telling us why they couldn't do anything, you are confusing the people that don't know how everything went down and the people that are asking questions.

    You are misleading people by telling them that the bid was 10+ mil without explaining that is divided in 3 years and you are misleading people by telling them that the Pacers tried when everybody know they didn't.

  9. #57
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Troll Hunting
    Age
    26
    Posts
    30,859

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Again, Vnzla, I understand you are a fan, but I don't understand why you WANT to be a fan of the Pacers. You think they intentionally mislead you and that they aren't actually interested in winning. So why root for them?

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
    momentarygodsblog.com https://twitter.com/momentarygods

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Trader Joe For This Useful Post:


  11. #58
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    20,986

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You are misleading people by telling them that the bid was 10+ mil without explaining that is divided in 3 years and you are misleading people by telling them that the Pacers tried when everybody know they didn't.
    You obviously need to reread what I said, because that aint it.

  12. #59
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Everywhere. I live in a big motorhome and I travel the entire country
    Age
    67
    Posts
    3,288
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Again, Vnzla, I understand you are a fan, but I don't understand why you WANT to be a fan of the Pacers. You think they intentionally mislead you and that they aren't actually interested in winning. So why root for them?
    I feel that way about the Colts but not the Pacers. I think they do a good job of keeping the team competitive in a bad small market situation. Hell, they have to be pretty good just to keep the Pacers in Indy. I do think that Bird left because Simon was not willing to build a potential championship team (read, he won't spend the money)...... If I felt that management was lying to the fans, I would have a big problem but I don't think that is the case......

  13. #60
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Again, Vnzla, I understand you are a fan, but I don't understand why you WANT to be a fan of the Pacers. You think they intentionally mislead you and that they aren't actually interested in winning. So why root for them?
    I don't think I'm the only one that feels that the Pacers mislead them, I believe Larry left because all this time he was told they were going to do whatever was possible for the Pacers to be a championship team and at the end of the day they decided not to get the type of players Larry thought he was going to get so he left.

    Go back and listen to Larry's interviews from 5 years ago, the Pacers promised a lot of things, I even have a friend that asked me, "so where is the difference maker Larry Bird promise he was going to get few years ago"? and this friend doesn't even follow the NBA as much as I do.

  14. #61
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    55
    Posts
    11,549

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Go back and listen to Larry's interviews from 5 years ago, the Pacers promised a lot of things, I even have a friend that asked me, "so where is the difference maker Larry Bird promise he was going to get few years ago"? and this friend doesn't even follow the NBA as much as I do.
    When push comes to shove, I don't think Larry Bird's strength was as a talent evaluator. He had problems with that while with the Celtics' front office and he made some rather interesting claims about players who didn't work out well here. That isn't to say I don't think he was successful here, it is to say that I think it is in spite of his rather large blind spots (in particular applying his own work ethic and hunger to win to players with potential and assuming they would do whatever it would take to get them to the next level).

    I don't think ownership has said anything other than avoid the LT. I think it is a bit silly to say they won't spend money on the one hand and then see the salary figures on the other - it is more likely that LJB wanted some big chunk for a risky player and Simon simply wasn't convinced that the risk was worth it. Donnie/Pritchard may not have made any better moves than Bird would have, but I think they are in better position to convince Herb the money was safe with them. After this year, that may not be quite so true itself.

    We'll see what really happened if the "keeping the seat warm for a year" statements come true.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  15. #62
    Member Sparhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Age
    34
    Posts
    5,290

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    When push comes to shove, I don't think Larry Bird's strength was as a talent evaluator. He had problems with that while with the Celtics' front office and he made some rather interesting claims about players who didn't work out well here. That isn't to say I don't think he was successful here, it is to say that I think it is in spite of his rather large blind spots (in particular applying his own work ethic and hunger to win to players with potential and assuming they would do whatever it would take to get them to the next level).

    I don't think ownership has said anything other than avoid the LT. I think it is a bit silly to say they won't spend money on the one hand and then see the salary figures on the other - it is more likely that LJB wanted some big chunk for a risky player and Simon simply wasn't convinced that the risk was worth it. Donnie/Pritchard may not have made any better moves than Bird would have, but I think they are in better position to convince Herb the money was safe with them. After this year, that may not be quite so true itself.

    We'll see what really happened if the "keeping the seat warm for a year" statements come true.
    Larry certainly wasn't wrong about Lance. I think he is at least a decent eye for evaluating talent.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

  16. #63
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,005

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Bird got better over the course of his time here, but he wasn't an exceptionally skilled at it though. Even with Lance I think the main reason he was there to be drafted had more to do with his immaturity issues. If he had a better head on him at the time he most likely would have been a late first rounder. I think it was more similar to how we drafted Granger. At the time most people considered him a top 10 talent, but people had knee concerns. By the time we got up to draft it was more about saying he is worth the risk at this position more than it was about finding the hidden gem no one else saw.

  17. #64
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    5,189

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Show me an article or a report were Mayo is saying that he only cares to start. I'll be here waiting.
    He was still averaging double figures a playing solid defense as a 4th or 5th option on the floor

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Ace E.Anderson For This Useful Post:


  19. #65
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He was still averaging double figures a playing solid defense as a 4th or 5th option on the floor
    I'm still waiting for the article were Mayo said that he only cares to start, I believe that there is not such an article or comment and that is just bs made up by some people around here.


    Here is an article I found on ESPN:

    O.J. Mayo, who is expected to start at shooting guard, hopes to get a lot of the point guard minutes when Collison rests.

    “It's going to take work,” Mayo said after signing his two-year contract that includes a player option for the second season. “Can I play the position John Stockton perfect? No. But I can get better at it. That's part of the reason why I wanted to get this contract out the way and get back in the gym and get to work.”
    That last part doesn't sound to me like a guy that is not willing to put the work, or maybe he wants to get back to the gym so he can see how the PED's he is putting in his body are making him shoot better?
    Last edited by vnzla81; 11-26-2012 at 09:25 PM.

  20. #66
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Here is an interview by Elton Brand were they asked him about Mayo:

    Give me your early season thoughts on O.J. Mayo.


    Elton Brand: He's a relentless worker. He's tireless. He's always in the gym, getting better. Shooting his shots, working on defense, actually. He watches a lot of film. He wants to be a great player. I think it's gonna continue once Dirk gets back. His job is going to be easier. O.J. will get even more wide-open shots. I don't see a letdown from him, at all. He takes pride in his game. With Dirk, and the guys coming back, he won't have to create those kind of tough shots that he's making right now.
    http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dal...eat-player.ece

  21. #67

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    I couldn't disagree w/ the OP more. Tyreke Evans? As in declining stats across the board every season, no real position to play Tyreke Evans? Umm, no thanks. I'd rather stick with Lance. Mayo has been shooting great so far, but let's see what happens when Dirk comes back (or at least by the All Star Break when we've got a significant sample size).

  22. #68
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,005

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Show me an article or a report were Mayo is saying that he only cares to start. I'll be here waiting.
    Show me an article where any player has said that? That is like asking someone to show you an article of a politician telling people not to vote for him.

    Is it possible he has changed sure, but history shows something different, unless you just think he went in a 2 year shooting slump when the Grizzles benched him. You also have to remember he is a starter in Dallas, not a bench player, so it doesn't really prove what I said to be wrong. It just proves that like many before him he knows the right things to say, and how to make a good first impression.

  23. #69
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Show me an article where any player has said that? That is like asking someone to show you an article of a politician telling people not to vote for him.

    Is it possible he has changed sure, but history shows something different, unless you just think he went in a 2 year shooting slump when the Grizzles benched him. You also have to remember he is a starter in Dallas, not a bench player, so it doesn't really prove what I said to be wrong. It just proves that like many before him he knows the right things to say, and how to make a good first impression.
    Thanks for making my point.

  24. #70
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,229

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I look forward to Mayo's next PED suspension. Just how many NBA players have been booted for PEDs, not pot (or Birdman's Meth)? Now I love Carlisle, but dang are these some staggering improvements...
    Nah, I don't think it's PEDs. Occam's Razor would simply suggest a hot streak, which isn't all that uncommon. And as you point out, it's just been 14 games.

    If Mayo ends up the season shooting 50% from 3, I'll happily eat crow on this.

  25. #71
    Member Trophy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    8,556

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Mayo wanted to be a starter and it wasn't going to happen here. It's nothing against us. A handful of teams went after him in the offseason, but Dallas is where he'd play the biggest role.

  26. #72
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Nah, I don't think it's PEDs. Occam's Razor would simply suggest a hot streak, which isn't all that uncommon. And as you point out, it's just been 14 games.

    If Mayo ends up the season shooting 50% from 3, I'll happily eat crow on this.
    I actually agree with this. The PED thing is just troubling from a general sense of character and smarts, given the low number of detections we see in the NBA.

    But his shooting is stupidly high, the kind of improvement statistics say is virtually impossible. You just don't see guys gain that much in one year, especially after 4 of the most remarkably consistent seasons prior to that. Rationalizing his improvement as reasonable is like rationalizing why you are likely to win the lottery. Yes you COULD win, but statistics show that it just doesn't happen.

    So why should the Pacers have bet on the most improbable player improvement in the history of the NBA? That's bad GM work, not "missing on him".


    Mayo can get clear for shots, but his history suggests that the quality of those shots is nothing special which nullifies his ability to get them. I suspect that some of his improved FG% is from the type of positions Rick's offense puts him in...but mostly from just being in the middle of an early season burner.



    And still fresh from his last PED cycle.

  27. #73
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    5,189

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Mayo wanted to be a starter and it wasn't going to happen here. It's nothing against us. A handful of teams went after him in the offseason, but Dallas is where he'd play the biggest role.
    And it's really THAT simple!!!

  28. #74
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    That last part doesn't sound to me like a guy that is not willing to put the work, or maybe he wants to get back to the gym so he can see how the PED's he is putting in his body are making him shoot better?
    Again, I don't think this is why he's shooting better, but I always ask the following when it comes to baseball PED usage:

    "If they aren't helping then why do players continue to use them?"

    Rashard Lewis was a 40% 3P guy who got busted for the same thing in fact.

    Remember PEDs don't mean someone is lazy, and often it's quite the opposite. They work hard and simply want to see more results than they are getting with normal methods. When Mayo used them (and he did use them) he did it to get some advantage. What did he want to be able to do that he couldn't without them? Maybe not shooting touch, but strength (which can help a shot), stamina (helps late game shooting), quickness/burst (helps to get open or to the rim), or hops (helps to get clear for jumpers or to score inside).

    See baseball players played this game with the old "PEDs don't help you see the ball better". Sure, but they DO help make your mistakes look better. The ground out is now a hot grounder that gets through. The line out now gets into the gap. And when you swing at a bad pitch you have the strength to adjust and still foul it off rather than striking out.

    So not only do you see a HR increase, you also see all these bumps to the AVR, lower K rate, etc even though PEDs "don't help".

  29. The Following User Says Thank You to Naptown_Seth For This Useful Post:


  30. #75
    Member WhoLovesYaBaby?'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    598
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

    The Pacers had three runs at Mayo and came up blank all three times. The biggest miss was the failed trade of Josh Brick McRoberts for Mayo. The Pacers tried another trade after that then the FA attempt this last summer.

    Time to move on. A West for Brooks proposal doesn't sound like a bad idea. The Pacers most likely will not be able to afford West for another two years, so why not get something for him? Of course trading West means that Ian, Hans, or Pendergraph has to start. That doesn't sound good.

  31. The Following User Says Thank You to WhoLovesYaBaby? For This Useful Post:


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 36
    Last Post: 07-11-2012, 08:37 PM
  2. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-11-2012, 02:44 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-19-2005, 09:31 PM
  4. Replies: 29
    Last Post: 06-23-2004, 02:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •