Soapbox or whatever you want to call it is the true, I know that you like to exaggerate things, saying that Phoenix won the Scola bid for 10+ mil sounds better to your point than saying that they won the bid for 4.5 mil a year, in other words you are trying to change the numbers so the people that are making the point say "OK yeah 10+ mil is a lot" without knowing that is divided in 3 years.
And I'm going to post that last part of your post to tell you again that THE PACERS DID NOT TRY, so the conventional wisdom that they tried is bs and you know it.But because the Pacers didn't get him, the conventional wisdom is that they didn't even try.....
vnzla81, it pains me to say I agree with you about anything, but I do about Scola.
I thought you'd realize that the total bid was for the length of the total contract, without me needing to point it out. Next time I'll know not to confuse you.
You are misleading people by telling them that the bid was 10+ mil without explaining that is divided in 3 years and you are misleading people by telling them that the Pacers tried when everybody know they didn't.
Again, Vnzla, I understand you are a fan, but I don't understand why you WANT to be a fan of the Pacers. You think they intentionally mislead you and that they aren't actually interested in winning. So why root for them?
I don't think I'm the only one that feels that the Pacers mislead them, I believe Larry left because all this time he was told they were going to do whatever was possible for the Pacers to be a championship team and at the end of the day they decided not to get the type of players Larry thought he was going to get so he left.
Go back and listen to Larry's interviews from 5 years ago, the Pacers promised a lot of things, I even have a friend that asked me, "so where is the difference maker Larry Bird promise he was going to get few years ago"? and this friend doesn't even follow the NBA as much as I do.
I don't think ownership has said anything other than avoid the LT. I think it is a bit silly to say they won't spend money on the one hand and then see the salary figures on the other - it is more likely that LJB wanted some big chunk for a risky player and Simon simply wasn't convinced that the risk was worth it. Donnie/Pritchard may not have made any better moves than Bird would have, but I think they are in better position to convince Herb the money was safe with them. After this year, that may not be quite so true itself.
We'll see what really happened if the "keeping the seat warm for a year" statements come true.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...
The entire draft. Love the picks of Turner, Young and trading for Christmas.
Signing Glen Robinson III
Trading for Budinger
Signing Monta Ellis
Signing Jordan Hill (not for the player, but for his deal)
Re-signing Stuckey and Allen
Bird got better over the course of his time here, but he wasn't an exceptionally skilled at it though. Even with Lance I think the main reason he was there to be drafted had more to do with his immaturity issues. If he had a better head on him at the time he most likely would have been a late first rounder. I think it was more similar to how we drafted Granger. At the time most people considered him a top 10 talent, but people had knee concerns. By the time we got up to draft it was more about saying he is worth the risk at this position more than it was about finding the hidden gem no one else saw.
I'm still waiting for the article were Mayo said that he only cares to start, I believe that there is not such an article or comment and that is just bs made up by some people around here.
Here is an article I found on ESPN:
That last part doesn't sound to me like a guy that is not willing to put the work, or maybe he wants to get back to the gym so he can see how the PED's he is putting in his body are making him shoot better?O.J. Mayo, who is expected to start at shooting guard, hopes to get a lot of the point guard minutes when Collison rests.
“It's going to take work,” Mayo said after signing his two-year contract that includes a player option for the second season. “Can I play the position John Stockton perfect? No. But I can get better at it. That's part of the reason why I wanted to get this contract out the way and get back in the gym and get to work.”
Last edited by vnzla81; 11-26-2012 at 10:25 PM.
Here is an interview by Elton Brand were they asked him about Mayo:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dal...eat-player.eceGive me your early season thoughts on O.J. Mayo.
Elton Brand: He's a relentless worker. He's tireless. He's always in the gym, getting better. Shooting his shots, working on defense, actually. He watches a lot of film. He wants to be a great player. I think it's gonna continue once Dirk gets back. His job is going to be easier. O.J. will get even more wide-open shots. I don't see a letdown from him, at all. He takes pride in his game. With Dirk, and the guys coming back, he won't have to create those kind of tough shots that he's making right now.
I couldn't disagree w/ the OP more. Tyreke Evans? As in declining stats across the board every season, no real position to play Tyreke Evans? Umm, no thanks. I'd rather stick with Lance. Mayo has been shooting great so far, but let's see what happens when Dirk comes back (or at least by the All Star Break when we've got a significant sample size).
Is it possible he has changed sure, but history shows something different, unless you just think he went in a 2 year shooting slump when the Grizzles benched him. You also have to remember he is a starter in Dallas, not a bench player, so it doesn't really prove what I said to be wrong. It just proves that like many before him he knows the right things to say, and how to make a good first impression.
Nah, I don't think it's PEDs. Occam's Razor would simply suggest a hot streak, which isn't all that uncommon. And as you point out, it's just been 14 games.
If Mayo ends up the season shooting 50% from 3, I'll happily eat crow on this.
Mayo wanted to be a starter and it wasn't going to happen here. It's nothing against us. A handful of teams went after him in the offseason, but Dallas is where he'd play the biggest role.
I actually agree with this. The PED thing is just troubling from a general sense of character and smarts, given the low number of detections we see in the NBA.
But his shooting is stupidly high, the kind of improvement statistics say is virtually impossible. You just don't see guys gain that much in one year, especially after 4 of the most remarkably consistent seasons prior to that. Rationalizing his improvement as reasonable is like rationalizing why you are likely to win the lottery. Yes you COULD win, but statistics show that it just doesn't happen.
So why should the Pacers have bet on the most improbable player improvement in the history of the NBA? That's bad GM work, not "missing on him".
Mayo can get clear for shots, but his history suggests that the quality of those shots is nothing special which nullifies his ability to get them. I suspect that some of his improved FG% is from the type of positions Rick's offense puts him in...but mostly from just being in the middle of an early season burner.
And still fresh from his last PED cycle.
Again, I don't think this is why he's shooting better, but I always ask the following when it comes to baseball PED usage:That last part doesn't sound to me like a guy that is not willing to put the work, or maybe he wants to get back to the gym so he can see how the PED's he is putting in his body are making him shoot better?
"If they aren't helping then why do players continue to use them?"
Rashard Lewis was a 40% 3P guy who got busted for the same thing in fact.
Remember PEDs don't mean someone is lazy, and often it's quite the opposite. They work hard and simply want to see more results than they are getting with normal methods. When Mayo used them (and he did use them) he did it to get some advantage. What did he want to be able to do that he couldn't without them? Maybe not shooting touch, but strength (which can help a shot), stamina (helps late game shooting), quickness/burst (helps to get open or to the rim), or hops (helps to get clear for jumpers or to score inside).
See baseball players played this game with the old "PEDs don't help you see the ball better". Sure, but they DO help make your mistakes look better. The ground out is now a hot grounder that gets through. The line out now gets into the gap. And when you swing at a bad pitch you have the strength to adjust and still foul it off rather than striking out.
So not only do you see a HR increase, you also see all these bumps to the AVR, lower K rate, etc even though PEDs "don't help".
The Pacers had three runs at Mayo and came up blank all three times. The biggest miss was the failed trade of Josh Brick McRoberts for Mayo. The Pacers tried another trade after that then the FA attempt this last summer.
Time to move on. A West for Brooks proposal doesn't sound like a bad idea. The Pacers most likely will not be able to afford West for another two years, so why not get something for him? Of course trading West means that Ian, Hans, or Pendergraph has to start. That doesn't sound good.