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Thread: Odd thoughts: Black (and Silver) Friday

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Black (and Silver) Friday

    Frank lost control of the game, I wish you could see that. I know a coach can't control a players wide open miss. But, His subs was terrible and he done nothing to change the pace of the game between all his early timeouts. Which, would have been awful if Pacers had a chance at the end and needed that last crucial timeout and wouldn't have had one. Why pull Lance and Hans out when they was balling is beyond me. Hans was showing the aggression and grabbing rebounds like a kid grabbing candy in a candy store. Lance was straight up balling and Spurs had no answer for him and it took the refs to slow him down and then Frank to put the chains on the beast. Ian was playing aggressively and doing quite well but to leave Hibbert on the bench so long is just ridiculous. He needs more time to get going and by the time he comes in the ball is always force to him, This is unacceptable, Hibbert should always be in at the 8:30 mark unless he is in foul trouble.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  2. #27
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Black (and Silver) Friday

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    If the evidence presented so far isn't enough to convince you "he makes bad basketball decisions", and there has been plenty discussed in this thread already, explain how a player with elite shooting and athletic ability has failed to find a home in this league until now? Don't get me wrong I like him and haven't given up on him (it's way too early for that), but all signs so far point to there being no misconception.
    I don't know why my original post on this subject got deleted, besides it being the wrong digest, but I basically agreed with this. He just seems lost in a structured offense. When I say "structured offense" I mean offensive sets. His shot selection is fine and when it is one on one against his defender he usually fares well. Defensively, again, one on one he is fairly passable, but he gets lost running through screens and seems to have low awareness of where the ball is if the guy he is defending does not have it.

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  4. #28

    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Black (and Silver) Friday

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Staverman View Post
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    How does a 7' 2" center who gets 7 offensive rebounds and tries to score on each of them not shoot one free throw?

    Someone please teach Roy to gather himself and go up strong with two hands instead of flipping up the one handed b.s. shots
    yeah, that is one of the most aggravating things about roy. those wimpy shots won't cut it. he needs to go strong.

  5. #29

    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Black (and Silver) Friday

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I don't know why my original post on this subject got deleted, besides it being the wrong digest, but I basically agreed with this. He just seems lost in a structured offense. When I say "structured offense" I mean offensive sets. His shot selection is fine and when it is one on one against his defender he usually fares well. Defensively, again, one on one he is fairly passable, but he gets lost running through screens and seems to have low awareness of where the ball is if the guy he is defending does not have it.
    Exactly. The guy basically lost a game for us because of his low awareness on defense. He does these hilarious slow motion fake cuts before he starts an offensive set that never work and only slow down the offense. A few games ago he was yelling at Mahinmi when it looked like he was the one messing up the plays. There's plenty of evidence so far that "he makes bad basketball decisions." Then again there's plenty of time to get it figured out. A lot of our guys have underachieved so far this season so I'm not too down on him.

  6. #30
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Black (and Silver) Friday

    Is there no way to remove the the this message has been deleted by X message?

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  7. #31
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Black (and Silver) Friday

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    For the record, this is not even accurate regarding Gerald Green. It's just the popular misconception, kind of like when everyone rode the "Lance sucks, will never amount to anything, has a horrible attitude and should be cut ASAP because I don't know why but just do it" bandwagon. There is no honest, objective evaluation going on in either case. I understand reputation precedes, but before bestowing such semi-permanent labels on players at least have analysis to base it on. "I feel like he doesn't do x" or "there's just something about him," doesn't cut it. I mean, it does. It's just a very ignorant thing to do, because it lacks substantial analysis. And if we're making definitive statements about professionals sans analysis, what's the point?

    Gerald Green's shot selection and spacing have been good, dare I say excellent so far this year. Certainly the best of our bench players. He's been moving around, bringing the ball up court when needed (but not when the point guard is open), hitting the open man, cutting and dishing, taking good threes. He needs to be more aggressive (this has nothing to do with "bball IQ" and everything to do with coaches orders, as he had no problem being aggressive with moderate PT on his previous teams). Is he a complete player? No. Do I wish he was a little faster or was better at taking his man off the dribble or played really good defense? Certainly. But he is hardly hovering "around the perimeter looking for the ball--hoping at some point for a chance to dunk something." It's absolutely non-factual. It's funny how he's portrayed in that manner yet Leandro Barbosa last year had some of the worst shot selection I can recall seeing from a regular and many on this board wish he was still a Pacer. Perception is everything, eh?

    Green is shooting 46% over the past 5 games, and that's with limited shots. He's still giving us 8 ppg and 4.3 reb off the bench. Not sure how many backup 3's in the league are even doing that, and this is with him working his way out of a slump and getting inconsistent minutes (as only Frank Vogel can provide). Let's drop the witch hunt and let the man play, make actual observations instead of hazy, hasty characterizations.

    That's all I have to say about that.
    I wasn't hoping for 8 pts and 4 bds in 24 mins from Green. Nor were my expectations that he would likely challenge for SMOTY. But his minutes are also down to 17 per over the last week. That tells me that he's not doing something the coaches are looking for.

    He may improve as the season progresses, but if 8 pts, 4 bds, and his general current level of play are acceptable, then I'd gladly take back Barbosa. Yes, he was horrid against Miami, but he did play a significant role in our late season stretch heading into the playoffs.

    Right now, Green isn't playing a significant contributing role in anything and it's become painfully obvious he's a one - dimensional player (scoring/stand still shooting). Can't pass well (that we have plenty of evidence of) not adept at putting the ball on the floor (you admit this yourself), marginal defender, especially off the ball, and now this from Vogel, which also contradicts to some degree your assertion as to Green's shot selection and lack of aggressiveness:

    Green attempts "two or three bad shots a game," according to Indiana head coach Frank Vogel, the Indianapolis Star reports. "He wants to carry his own weight and his aggressiveness is leading him into a couple of forces," said Vogel. "He just has to settle down with his shot selections."
    http://basketball.fantasysports.yaho...12&jsenabled=1

    So you want him to be more aggressive but the HC sees that as his issue right now. Let's also not forget he was touted early in the season to shoulder a lot of the weight of the loss of DG's offense, but he's got double figures in 3 of 14 games.

    Again, this to some extent is attributable to unrealistic expectations and talent evaluation by media, fans, and/or front office. I am hopeful he progresses and works through some of this to realize some of his POTENTIAL, but it's certainly not ignorant to suggest he's got issues with decision making/playing within the offense and some other aspects of his performance and real impact on our play. If you want to find "evidence" it's not hard to come by.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

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  9. #32
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts: Black (and Silver) Friday

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Remember when there was this belief around here that George Hill was a defensive stopper at PG...yeah....about that...
    His defense is cool, it's when he has to play pick and roll defense with slow footed bigs. Our bigs, ESP Roy, are too slow to show and then allow George to get back to his man. George can be slow getting through a million picks in one possession. Quick Guys like Jennings and Parker are gonna thrive off that.

    Parker did the same thing to Rondo, who's regarded as an elite defensive player. We are one of the best defenses in the league, it's tough to do that when you have a PG that's horrible on D.

    Even a Hill apologist can see he needs to be more aggressive both offensively and defensively.

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