I think if we were to trade anyone it should be Paul George. Unfortunately, I think most of us can agree, he doesn't have "it".
My point is still clear, if y'all want to blow up the roster so bad, be careful what you wish for. The way that some of you are wanting to do this is only going to land us **** sandwiches.....
"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel
"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca
Last edited by xtacy; 11-20-2012 at 03:24 AM.
Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel
Just like always there are no easy answers with the Pacers. The answer at this stage is obviously not to blow up the team but Pacergeek does make a point. I have wondered for years why the Pacers hardly ever go after the more athletic, quicker players who can easily get their own shot. We get killed when we play teams like this. Paul George should be in this category but for whatever reason he's just not. I like Vogel a lot but I think a new head coach(and maybe FO) may be a necessity in the near future if for any other reason that it is time for a philosophy change. The team out-performed their ceiling last year and I do give them credit but that's definitely as far as you will get without some shot creators and shooters.
- Legit starting - caliber pg
- Legit perimeter sharpshooter
- Legit breakdown D off dribble threat
These needs have been the same essentially throughout the Bird 3 year plan or 5 year plan or perhaps soon to be 7 year plan or whatever the hell it was then / is now. Bird did upgrade the interior starters, that's his main success area, IMO.
Yet neither he nor anyone else involved in recent history has been able to meet any of these ongoing need areas, despite whatever efforts were made. I get that this isn't easy and these guys don't grow on trees, but it is what it is. Of course, additionally there has been the inability, whatever the reason, to add the level of talent player at any position that take our overall level up a notch.
Seemingly, PG and Lance are the most likely candidates to grow into one of the roles of need. While they're both young, the mental toughness to undertake that responsibility is enormous, and it's highly uncertain either of them can develop it.
I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.
No, that's not where this group is headed. This group is headed to more wins when DG gets back just like last season.
Are they heading to a championship? If PG does not step it up then chances are that no.
But they are headed towards consecutive good records and several playoff wins. Even if they don't bring a championship.
They were terrible, scored some major players in the lottery in LeBron and Carmelo and looked like they were on their way to the top. After 6 years of failing to make it to the Finals in Denver, Melo was asking for a trade to New York and LeBron was working on his exit strategy from the Cavs.
Another good example of what happens when you blow a team up is the team that the Pacers beat last night. Remember when the Wizards were a Playoff team with Arenas, Jamison, and Caron Butler? They broke that team up, stunk their way to multiple lottery picks including the #1 prize John Wall and they are 0-9.
That's what you have to look forward to when you blow a team up and start over. Be careful what you ask for.
Last edited by naptownmenace; 11-20-2012 at 11:39 AM.
Blowing it up and tweaking the roster are two very different things. Right now I'd say the Pacers have a good mix of players that would prefer to play a grind it out/slow it down tempo, and a mix of players that would be better suited for an open court, faster paced tempo. When we had DG, we had a better ability to adjust and play a mixture of the two styles, but with him out, and us lacking a true perimeter threat, we lack the ability to do both efficiently.
We don't know the extent of Danny's injury, but if there's a good chance that he won't be the Danny we've grown accustomed to seeing, then we HAVE to adapt to the trends of the rest of the league. Teams are not only getting smaller, quicker, and more athletic, but they're surrounding the ball handler's with shooters on the outside, and athletic finishers on the inside. I feel like we are one of the few teams in the league that lack the ability to play "small ball" effectively for any extended period of time.
If we're no longer going to be able to utilize our "size" as an advantage over teams that utilize this small ball approach, then we need to make a move to be able to match the small ball approach.
Let's trade all the players on the roster who don't have the "it" factor. The earlier post of not needing rebounding at the 2 spot is correct cuz Hib's & West are just gobbling them up!
Sorry but I'll take 14 & 8 a game out of my SF with rock solid D! Sorry PG but at the ripe age of 22 there is no more room for improvement, when your 28 your game will be exactly how it is now, you might as well hang em up.
I could use the Sacramento Kings instead. They traded off Doug Christie, Peja, Bibby,and Webber. They haven't been any good despite year after year drafting near the top of the lottery.
Blow up the roster and then...?
Some of these posts are really sounding ridiculous. Sounds like a to me.
blowing a team up and sucking works if you get lucky. lucky to get the high lottery pick. lucky to get bad in a year when a star player is available and lucky for that player to actually get good. Then you need to be lucky again the same way. and then you need to be lucky again the same way. That way you get you big three. OKC did it, but that just proves it can be done. Not that it is a strategy for success.
Cleveland and Denver are not a good example because they blew it all up and are doing a pretty good job in rebuilding, those two teams should be in the playoffs this year, not only that but they have good enough young pieces to have a better future that a "non blowing it up" team like the Pacers.
They had to trade all those old guys they had no choice, yes they suck but it has to do more with their front office and owners than anything else, just because a team sucks at drafting high doesn't mean that you are also going to suck at drafting high.I could use the Sacramento Kings instead. They traded off Doug Christie, Peja, Bibby,and Webber. They haven't been any good despite year after year drafting near the top of the lottery.
You're the same poster who expects the Colts to be a Super Bowl contender this year right? Me thinks if the Pacers were to go on a little run and win 8 out of 10, 12 out of 15, you'll be starting another thread changing your tune. You're either way too high or way too low.
And what's the blue print for blowing this team up? Are they to bottom out and have no long term commitments and finish the season with scrubs and the worst record? And then what? Hope there's a Lebron James, or Kyrie Irving, or Anthony Davis to pick? Because what happens if the best they can end up with is Derrick Williams? Or Brandon Knight? Evan Turner? Wes Johnson? What player can the Pacers trade to get the kind of haul that the Nuggets got for Carmelo?
Yeah if it was so easy to blow the team up and be guaranteed of drafting the next superstar who wouldn't want to do that? I love people pointing to the Nuggets (Carmelo) and the Cavs (Kyrie) and they say, "See, look how easy it is, the Pacers are so stupid!!" But they don't ever seem to mention the Kings, Bobcats, Wizards, or Raptors, who seemingly have tried this strategy for years on end and don't have much to show for it.
There is little point to this kind of thread. The Pacers are not going to trade Hill, George, or Hibbert. They might trade an expiring contract eventually.
This team will not be blown up, so why discuss it?