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Thread: This team needs to be blown up (OLD thread!! 2012)

  1. #76
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    Remember the last time fans and sponsors forced the team to "blow up" the roster?


    Here's a hint:



    HELL. NO.
    Not a good example, bringing two huge contracts is not blowing it up.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    Remember the last time fans and sponsors forced the team to "blow up" the roster?


    Here's a hint:



    HELL. NO.
    I think you may need to re-evaluate that. There is a huge difference between an EXplosion and an IMplosion.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    I think if we were to trade anyone it should be Paul George. Unfortunately, I think most of us can agree, he doesn't have "it".

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    My point is still clear, if y'all want to blow up the roster so bad, be careful what you wish for. The way that some of you are wanting to do this is only going to land us **** sandwiches.....
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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  6. #80
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    My point is still clear, if y'all want to blow up the roster so bad, be careful what you wish for. The way that some of you are wanting to do this is only going to land us **** sandwiches.....
    I get what you're saying, and in general agree, "blow it up!" guarantees absolutely nothing but being bad for at least some amount of time, but what we have now is monumentally more attractive than what we had then. The guys we HAD to move then were legitimate negative value guys, and not because of money. It is a rather poor example, but I do agree with the overall point.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
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    Who's talking to you?
    ok i'm clearly not talking to you becasue you obviously don't have the ability to understand. people exactly react the way you do when they simply don't understand.
    Last edited by xtacy; 11-20-2012 at 02:24 AM.

  8. #82
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    At this point, TPTB has no other choice than to weather the storm.

    This team has several good pieces, even as disfunctional as they presently seem to be. But blowing things up or even trading a couple of the top players? That's idiotic and something that management would not and will not do at this point.

    Why? There a couple of reasons.

    As has been pointed out, we are barely 10% into the season and it's certainly no time for panic and a knee-jerk reaction. If I had reacted this way every time one of my funds or stock choices dipped a little, I'd ended up working until I was 70 and not retiring at 57. We have invested in a few players, so let's take a deep breath, take a step back and ponder the situation.

    In doing this it directly leads to reason #2. We have no idea how this team would perform with the insertion of Granger into the lineup. It could be that some of you are right, and TPTB has created a flawed team from the start. But, I think that it is even more likely that Granger is the missing link that enables the other pieces to perform much better. Now, I will be the first to admit that such a dependence on a single player in itself constitutes a flaw. But if this is the case, having waited for Granger's return will have provided the clarity to determine that. We would also have a very good starting point for further improving the team. In my opinion, that is far wiser than getting rid of players and possibly setting us back a year or two in our roster development.

    The best players on teams usually have qualities that are not duplicated by others on the roster. Without that redundancy, teams are gong to suffer when their best player is unavailable. The only thing that might differ from team to team is the degree to which they will miss that player. For the Pacers, we miss Granger a hell of a lot.

    (And yes, I think it is apparent to even his biggest detractors that Granger can now be identified as our best player.).
    I understand that we would be a better team with Granger, but not even close to a contending team. If you aren't in it to win championships, than what is the point? Have you forgotten the Miami series? We couldn't even beat them when they were missing Chris Bosh, one of the top players in the NBA. That series was ours for the taking. We lost because they have two guys that can create their own shots consistently, we have zero.
    David "And One" West

  9. #83
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I understand that we would be a better team with Granger, but not even close to a contending team. If you aren't in it to win championships, than what is the point? Have you forgotten the Miami series? We couldn't even beat them when they were missing Chris Bosh, one of the top players in the NBA. That series was ours for the taking. We lost because they have two guys that can create their own shots consistently, we have zero.
    Then don't watch the rest of the year. Or probably the next 2+. It'll end in nothing but frustration for you. This team's not getting blown up.

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  11. #84
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Just like always there are no easy answers with the Pacers. The answer at this stage is obviously not to blow up the team but Pacergeek does make a point. I have wondered for years why the Pacers hardly ever go after the more athletic, quicker players who can easily get their own shot. We get killed when we play teams like this. Paul George should be in this category but for whatever reason he's just not. I like Vogel a lot but I think a new head coach(and maybe FO) may be a necessity in the near future if for any other reason that it is time for a philosophy change. The team out-performed their ceiling last year and I do give them credit but that's definitely as far as you will get without some shot creators and shooters.

  12. #85
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Needs:

    - Legit starting - caliber pg
    - Legit perimeter sharpshooter
    - Legit breakdown D off dribble threat

    These needs have been the same essentially throughout the Bird 3 year plan or 5 year plan or perhaps soon to be 7 year plan or whatever the hell it was then / is now. Bird did upgrade the interior starters, that's his main success area, IMO.

    Yet neither he nor anyone else involved in recent history has been able to meet any of these ongoing need areas, despite whatever efforts were made. I get that this isn't easy and these guys don't grow on trees, but it is what it is. Of course, additionally there has been the inability, whatever the reason, to add the level of talent player at any position that take our overall level up a notch.

    Seemingly, PG and Lance are the most likely candidates to grow into one of the roles of need. While they're both young, the mental toughness to undertake that responsibility is enormous, and it's highly uncertain either of them can develop it.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    We cannot survive another 4 year run of losing, which is where this group is headed.
    No, that's not where this group is headed. This group is headed to more wins when DG gets back just like last season.

    Are they heading to a championship? If PG does not step it up then chances are that no.

    But they are headed towards consecutive good records and several playoff wins. Even if they don't bring a championship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    We suffered enough during the JOB years. This city needs a championship. We have waited long enough
    Blowing it up will lead to a championship? It will only lead to another 2-3 years of losing.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    We lost because they have two guys that can create their own shots consistently, we have zero.
    However, you have to remember that it took some godlike performances by LeBron and Wade to get past us.

    Are they going to replice those performances year after year?

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  17. #88
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Blowing it up will lead to a championship? It will only lead to another 2-3 years of losing.
    So true. Look at the Cavs and Denver as the prime examples.

    They were terrible, scored some major players in the lottery in LeBron and Carmelo and looked like they were on their way to the top. After 6 years of failing to make it to the Finals in Denver, Melo was asking for a trade to New York and LeBron was working on his exit strategy from the Cavs.

    Another good example of what happens when you blow a team up is the team that the Pacers beat last night. Remember when the Wizards were a Playoff team with Arenas, Jamison, and Caron Butler? They broke that team up, stunk their way to multiple lottery picks including the #1 prize John Wall and they are 0-9.

    That's what you have to look forward to when you blow a team up and start over. Be careful what you ask for.
    Last edited by naptownmenace; 11-20-2012 at 10:39 AM.

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  19. #89
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    So true. Look at the Cavs and Denver as the prime examples.

    They were terrible, scored some major players in the lottery in LeBron and Carmelo and looked like they were on their way to the top. After 6 years of failing to make it to the Finals in Denver, Melo was asking for a trade to New York and LeBron was working on his exit strategy from the Cavs.

    Another good example of what happens when you blow a team up is the team that the Pacers beat last night. Remember when the Wizards were a Playoff team with Arenas, Jamison, and Caron Butler? They broke that team up, picked us stunk their way to multiple lottery picks including the #1 prize John Wall and they are 0-9.

    That's what you have to look forward to when you blow a team up and start over. Be careful what you ask for.
    I wouldn't use Denver and Cleveland to make the point you are trying to make if I were you.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Blowing it up and tweaking the roster are two very different things. Right now I'd say the Pacers have a good mix of players that would prefer to play a grind it out/slow it down tempo, and a mix of players that would be better suited for an open court, faster paced tempo. When we had DG, we had a better ability to adjust and play a mixture of the two styles, but with him out, and us lacking a true perimeter threat, we lack the ability to do both efficiently.

    We don't know the extent of Danny's injury, but if there's a good chance that he won't be the Danny we've grown accustomed to seeing, then we HAVE to adapt to the trends of the rest of the league. Teams are not only getting smaller, quicker, and more athletic, but they're surrounding the ball handler's with shooters on the outside, and athletic finishers on the inside. I feel like we are one of the few teams in the league that lack the ability to play "small ball" effectively for any extended period of time.

    If we're no longer going to be able to utilize our "size" as an advantage over teams that utilize this small ball approach, then we need to make a move to be able to match the small ball approach.

  21. #91
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Let's trade all the players on the roster who don't have the "it" factor. The earlier post of not needing rebounding at the 2 spot is correct cuz Hib's & West are just gobbling them up!

    Sorry but I'll take 14 & 8 a game out of my SF with rock solid D! Sorry PG but at the ripe age of 22 there is no more room for improvement, when your 28 your game will be exactly how it is now, you might as well hang em up.

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  23. #92
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I wouldn't use Denver and Cleveland to make the point you are trying to make if I were you.
    I wish you would elaborate. I think they are good examples of what could happen - the good and the bad.

    I could use the Sacramento Kings instead. They traded off Doug Christie, Peja, Bibby,and Webber. They haven't been any good despite year after year drafting near the top of the lottery.

  24. #93
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Blow up the roster and then...?

    Some of these posts are really sounding ridiculous. Sounds like a to me.

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  26. #94
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by jtroub8 View Post
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    Let's trade all the players on the roster who don't have the "it" factor. The earlier post of not needing rebounding at the 2 spot is correct cuz Hib's & West are just gobbling them up!

    Sorry but I'll take 14 & 8 a game out of my SF with rock solid D! Sorry PG but at the ripe age of 22 there is no more room for improvement, when your 28 your game will be exactly how it is now, you might as well hang em up.
    In spite of you trying to be sarcastic, I don't think anybody is saying that.

  27. #95

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    I wish you would elaborate. I think they are good examples of what could happen - the good and the bad.

    I could use the Sacramento Kings instead. They traded off Doug Christie, Peja, Bibby,and Webber. They haven't been any good despite year after year drafting near the top of the lottery.

    blowing a team up and sucking works if you get lucky. lucky to get the high lottery pick. lucky to get bad in a year when a star player is available and lucky for that player to actually get good. Then you need to be lucky again the same way. and then you need to be lucky again the same way. That way you get you big three. OKC did it, but that just proves it can be done. Not that it is a strategy for success.

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  29. #96
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    I wish you would elaborate. I think they are good examples of what could happen - the good and the bad.
    Cleveland and Denver are not a good example because they blew it all up and are doing a pretty good job in rebuilding, those two teams should be in the playoffs this year, not only that but they have good enough young pieces to have a better future that a "non blowing it up" team like the Pacers.


    I could use the Sacramento Kings instead. They traded off Doug Christie, Peja, Bibby,and Webber. They haven't been any good despite year after year drafting near the top of the lottery.
    They had to trade all those old guys they had no choice, yes they suck but it has to do more with their front office and owners than anything else, just because a team sucks at drafting high doesn't mean that you are also going to suck at drafting high.

  30. #97

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I understand that we would be a better team with Granger, but not even close to a contending team. If you aren't in it to win championships, than what is the point? Have you forgotten the Miami series? We couldn't even beat them when they were missing Chris Bosh, one of the top players in the NBA. That series was ours for the taking. We lost because they have two guys that can create their own shots consistently, we have zero.
    You're the same poster who expects the Colts to be a Super Bowl contender this year right? Me thinks if the Pacers were to go on a little run and win 8 out of 10, 12 out of 15, you'll be starting another thread changing your tune. You're either way too high or way too low.

    And what's the blue print for blowing this team up? Are they to bottom out and have no long term commitments and finish the season with scrubs and the worst record? And then what? Hope there's a Lebron James, or Kyrie Irving, or Anthony Davis to pick? Because what happens if the best they can end up with is Derrick Williams? Or Brandon Knight? Evan Turner? Wes Johnson? What player can the Pacers trade to get the kind of haul that the Nuggets got for Carmelo?

    Yeah if it was so easy to blow the team up and be guaranteed of drafting the next superstar who wouldn't want to do that? I love people pointing to the Nuggets (Carmelo) and the Cavs (Kyrie) and they say, "See, look how easy it is, the Pacers are so stupid!!" But they don't ever seem to mention the Kings, Bobcats, Wizards, or Raptors, who seemingly have tried this strategy for years on end and don't have much to show for it.

  31. #98
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by xtacy View Post
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    ok i'm clearly not talking to you becasue you obviously don't have the ability to understand. people exactly react the way you do when they simply don't understand.
    Someone has been hitting the Jim Beam at 0221AM.

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  33. #99
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    There is little point to this kind of thread. The Pacers are not going to trade Hill, George, or Hibbert. They might trade an expiring contract eventually.

    This team will not be blown up, so why discuss it?

  34. #100

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
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    Someone has been hitting the Jim Beam at 0221AM.
    before you get rude, take a look at xtacy's location. pretty sure it's not 2:21 am in turkey. Plus, iirc, not much drinking goes on in Turkey. It is an Islamic country so it's a good bet that xtacy doesn't drink.

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