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This team needs to be blown up (OLD thread!! 2012)

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  • #16
    Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Well, there's only so much blowing up you can do if nobody wants the players you've got.
    I'd say
    1. To trade Roy or Granger at this point, you'd get no value at all. So you're better off hoping the former gets it together and the latter gets healthy.
    2. I don't that trading GH would help, since whatever hole you filled by trading him, another would be opened up by his absence.

    I'd be open to trading PG if it'd get us something we need, but at least at the moment we sort of need him as well, with Granger being hurt. He might not have turned into the franchise player some folks expected, but he's a generally solid player. And still has some time on his rookie deal, so he's got some value. One sort of move to consider would be trading him for another younger player whose existing team things is going to leave. It wouldn't be completely crazy to imagine trading him for a guy like Tyreke Evans. Evans is much more of an offensive player than PG, and he would bring something to the team. He's in the last year of his rookie deal, and thus, Sacramento has sucked, so they might be willing to take back a talented and cheaper player like George rather than pay or lose him for nothing.

    Tyler is sort of our version of Evans. He's shown something, but I don't look at him and thing "man, it's essential we keep him", and I think there's a strong possibility he could go somewhere else. Bigger guys that can score always get raises. For us... not sure he's worth it. Some team that could really use scoring (besides us) might be able to make use of him, but I doubt they'd give up that much to have a look. Maybe they'd give up a similarly flawed player on a similar contract.

    West... he seems like the most obvious trading "chip" we have, in that he's a good player on a reasonable expiring contract. Any team in the league, but especially good ones should be happy to have him for a playoff run. But... I'm pretty confident that we'd absolutely implode without him. So that's an issue. And while lots of teams would like to have him, most teams that are good aren't going to give up too much for him because... then that would defeat the purpose of making a trade in the first place. He's the sort of guy who you'd either get back a player on a longer deal for, or a pick. Which are reasonable returns, i guess, but still not exactly outstanding.

    Best case scenario I can think of:
    1. Paul George for Tyreke Evans
    2. Tyler, West for Caleron, Ed Davis, maybe a pick.

    Pacers
    PG Calderon/Hill
    SG Hill/Evans
    SF Evans/Green/Young {Granger}
    PF Davis/Plumlee/Pendergraph
    _C Hibbert/Mahinmi

    When and if Granger comes back healthy, you go with Hill/Evans/Granger and try hard to find yourself a good 4 down the road.
    SportsTwo.com

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: This team needs to be blown up

      Originally posted by Pacergeek View Post
      Last year was fools gold. Besides Stephenson, we have nobody that can beat their man off the dribble and create their own shot. Management doesn't like Lance and was dumb enough to sign Green just so they didn't have to give Lance minutes this year. Hibbert is too slow to consistently be effective, and his contract is laughable. Unless he is in black hole mode, David West also appears too slow to compete in today's NBA. Paul George has shown no improvement since his rookie season, and should be moved. Let somebody else get stiffed on a supposed "franchise" player of the future. If George Hill is your starting PG and the best player, your team is in serious trouble. Our entire bench would be 12th men on contending teams.

      I wondered when we would see one of these threads.

      Hey, I have a better idea for you --

      follow another team.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: This team needs to be blown up

        Originally posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
        I wondered when we would see one of these threads.

        Hey, I have a better idea for you --

        follow another team.
        and i have a better idea for you. don't read this thread. it's easier than following another team. just try.

        trust me everone on this board including the ones in this thread wants this team to be good. but we suck right now and we want this to change as much as you do. this is a thread where people write their opinions on how to change it. call it overreacting, kneejerk i don't care. the thread title perfectly explains what kind of things will be written in this thread. if you don't want to see those overreaction posts don't read. and if you disagree just say it without telling people ******** like to follow other teams. this "we want/know the best for this team, you jerks are just overreacting" attitude is just ****.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: This team needs to be blown up

          If the Pacers blow up this team they will become the Seattle Supersonics before we're good again.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: This team needs to be blown up

            Originally posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
            I wondered when we would see one of these threads.

            Hey, I have a better idea for you --

            follow another team.
            I will never follow another team. I would rather die!
            Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: This team needs to be blown up

              The main problem, again, is that we don't have a true PG. Hill is a good player, but he isn't a PG. This was a glaring flaw going into the off-season that TPTB failed to address. So the offense is still struggling.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: This team needs to be blown up

                Originally posted by Pacergeek View Post
                They don't like him. Traded for Barbosa last season and signed Green this year. Theses two took Lance's minutes
                Well he hadn't exactly shown a reason to be placed within the rotation until this season. When you're in "win-now" mode you normally go with guys that have demonstrated an ability to produce, not a 2nd round pick who hadn't shown anything except a few good games in summer league. Dont get me wrong, I love Lance, but he his play hadn't warranted many mins till this year.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: This team needs to be blown up

                  This is a poorly constructed team. All the signs were there after we had Miami on the ropes, and then lost 3 straight. We don't have a "go to" scorer, and its impossible to win without one. Last year was awesome, but its in the past and is looking like a fluke. Thinking this group will get things together and play like last years team is irrational and a fantasy
                  Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: This team needs to be blown up

                    Originally posted by Pacergeek View Post
                    This is a poorly constructed team. All the signs were there after we had Miami on the ropes, and then lost 3 straight. We don't have a "go to" scorer, and its impossible to win without one. Last year was awesome, but its in the past and is looking like a fluke. Thinking this group will get things together and play like last years team is irrational and a fantasy
                    You can win without a "go to" guy if you have a good offensive system and a PG that can run it. We have neither.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: This team needs to be blown up

                      I think we are a very slow team, both Hibbert and West or Hill aren't the most agile players on their position so ball movement is rather slow as well. Especially if you take into account that some of our core players aren't the best ball handlers either.

                      With that being said you need either someone who can create his own shot and draws occasionally a second defender or you need someone who can penetrate by attacking the rim in order to create space for the rest of the team. In my opinion we lack both. The slashing was the one strength of Collison, but he lacked other things to make me miss him.

                      So while there are many advantages our current lineup brings to the table -defense, length, rebounding- there are still significant flaws that have to be addressed. Yes, I still hope that Paul George gets more aggressive on offense and handles the ball better but honestly I don't see that happening (this season).

                      Ideally the person who's able to create his own shot is also a threat from beyond the arc.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: This team needs to be blown up

                        I think management and the owner should be blown up first. It doesn't do any good to bring new players into a situation where the owner doesn't care if the team wins or not. The president and gm don't have a clue and have come to the conclusion that no top flight player would want to play for their franchise. They apparently do not know what a difference maker player is. Teams like the Knicks go out and get veteran, proven players to come off their bench. Players that have proven they can get it done in this league. We get projects, throw away assets such as draft picks like they mean nothing and pray something will fall in our lap.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: This team needs to be blown up

                          Originally posted by Shade View Post
                          The main problem, again, is that we don't have a true PG. Hill is a good player, but he isn't a PG. This was a glaring flaw going into the off-season that TPTB failed to address. So the offense is still struggling.
                          Agreed, I really like Hill as a combo guard, first guard off the bench. Last true Point Guard they've had was Tinsley for 1.5 months his rookie season then Mark Jackson. Even Mark had flaws, but he still made guys around him better. Its a rare breed, but unless you get one, you can't be constructed as they are (minus a superstar) and have longevity. So ya, easy to say get a true point guard or a superstar, nearly impossible to do.

                          Side notes: I'm a fan of George Hill defensively as a point guard. I might be tainted by the long history of bad defensive point guards they've had, too.

                          How about one exceptional passer to run things through even, I don't mean crazy And One passing, just court vision, willingness, and ability.
                          As currently constructed they are just poor passers, poor at getting open. If you have a great passer, guys tend to get open more often, because they know they'll get the ball. It's not surprising if you think about it, they were one of the poorest teams I have ever seen at any level at running the break last year.

                          One more observation to throw in. Could the new guys look any less interested in Mahimni and Augustine? I liked the moves, but I can't believe how indifferent these two look and play.
                          Last edited by Speed; 11-19-2012, 04:18 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: This team needs to be blown up

                            Originally posted by doctor-h View Post
                            I think management and the owner should be blown up first. It doesn't do any good to bring new players into a situation where the owner doesn't care if the team wins or not. The president and gm don't have a clue and have come to the conclusion that no top flight player would want to play for their franchise. They apparently do not know what a difference maker player is. Teams like the Knicks go out and get veteran, proven players to come off their bench. Players that have proven they can get it done in this league. We get projects, throw away assets such as draft picks like they mean nothing and pray something will fall in our lap.
                            So who do you have in mind as the new owner, and where would they move the team?
                            BillS

                            A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                            Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: This team needs to be blown up

                              Originally posted by Shade View Post
                              The main problem, again, is that we don't have a true PG. Hill is a good player, but he isn't a PG. This was a glaring flaw going into the off-season that TPTB failed to address. So the offense is still struggling.
                              Augustin is a true PG. We just don't have the bigs to run the pick and roll, slow footed and unhandy as they are. Pick and pop might work with West, Mahinmi and Hibbert if he can practice on it first.

                              Shuffle the rotation and give them more freedom on offense first before blowing things up.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: This team needs to be blown up

                                the roster doesn't need to be blown up, just need to be tweaked. some of the players are redundant skill wise. granger, george, and green all have a similar skill set. ideally you'd want at least one who can break his man down off the dribble or catch and shoot off screens. even west and hansbrough are a little redundant.

                                a bench of hansbrough, green, and stephenson on paper should be pretty good in transition


                                one other thing i don't like is west and hibbert together defensively. both have cement in their shoes and struggle on pick and roll defense

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