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Thread: This team needs to be blown up (OLD thread!! 2012)

  1. #26

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    I think management and the owner should be blown up first. It doesn't do any good to bring new players into a situation where the owner doesn't care if the team wins or not. The president and gm don't have a clue and have come to the conclusion that no top flight player would want to play for their franchise. They apparently do not know what a difference maker player is. Teams like the Knicks go out and get veteran, proven players to come off their bench. Players that have proven they can get it done in this league. We get projects, throw away assets such as draft picks like they mean nothing and pray something will fall in our lap.

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  3. #27
    Member Speed's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    The main problem, again, is that we don't have a true PG. Hill is a good player, but he isn't a PG. This was a glaring flaw going into the off-season that TPTB failed to address. So the offense is still struggling.
    Agreed, I really like Hill as a combo guard, first guard off the bench. Last true Point Guard they've had was Tinsley for 1.5 months his rookie season then Mark Jackson. Even Mark had flaws, but he still made guys around him better. Its a rare breed, but unless you get one, you can't be constructed as they are (minus a superstar) and have longevity. So ya, easy to say get a true point guard or a superstar, nearly impossible to do.

    Side notes: I'm a fan of George Hill defensively as a point guard. I might be tainted by the long history of bad defensive point guards they've had, too.

    How about one exceptional passer to run things through even, I don't mean crazy And One passing, just court vision, willingness, and ability.
    As currently constructed they are just poor passers, poor at getting open. If you have a great passer, guys tend to get open more often, because they know they'll get the ball. It's not surprising if you think about it, they were one of the poorest teams I have ever seen at any level at running the break last year.

    One more observation to throw in. Could the new guys look any less interested in Mahimni and Augustine? I liked the moves, but I can't believe how indifferent these two look and play.
    Last edited by Speed; 11-19-2012 at 03:18 PM.

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  5. #28
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    I think management and the owner should be blown up first. It doesn't do any good to bring new players into a situation where the owner doesn't care if the team wins or not. The president and gm don't have a clue and have come to the conclusion that no top flight player would want to play for their franchise. They apparently do not know what a difference maker player is. Teams like the Knicks go out and get veteran, proven players to come off their bench. Players that have proven they can get it done in this league. We get projects, throw away assets such as draft picks like they mean nothing and pray something will fall in our lap.
    So who do you have in mind as the new owner, and where would they move the team?
    BillS

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  7. #29

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    The main problem, again, is that we don't have a true PG. Hill is a good player, but he isn't a PG. This was a glaring flaw going into the off-season that TPTB failed to address. So the offense is still struggling.
    Augustin is a true PG. We just don't have the bigs to run the pick and roll, slow footed and unhandy as they are. Pick and pop might work with West, Mahinmi and Hibbert if he can practice on it first.

    Shuffle the rotation and give them more freedom on offense first before blowing things up.

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  9. #30

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    the roster doesn't need to be blown up, just need to be tweaked. some of the players are redundant skill wise. granger, george, and green all have a similar skill set. ideally you'd want at least one who can break his man down off the dribble or catch and shoot off screens. even west and hansbrough are a little redundant.

    a bench of hansbrough, green, and stephenson on paper should be pretty good in transition


    one other thing i don't like is west and hibbert together defensively. both have cement in their shoes and struggle on pick and roll defense

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  11. #31
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by MvPlumlee View Post
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    Augustin is a true PG. We just don't have the bigs to run the pick and roll, slow footed and unhandy as they are. Pick and pop might work with West, Mahinmi and Hibbert if he can practice on it first.

    Shuffle the rotation and give them more freedom on offense first before blowing things up.
    He's horrible. I mean just awful. Really should not play a minute, if all things were equal and this was a team that was just playing guys based on what they provide, he might get cut. If he doesn't assert himself soon and no that doesn't mean start jacking up shots like is being said, then I hope he gets DNP/CD really soon. Same with Mahimni. I couldn't be more frustrated with Augustine and couldn't be happier its only a one year deal.

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  13. #32

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    He's horrible. I mean just awful. Really should not play a minute, if all things were equal and this was a team that was just playing guys based on what they provide, he might get cut. If he doesn't assert himself soon and no that doesn't mean start jacking up shots like is being said, then I hope he gets DNP/CD really soon. Same with Mahimni. I couldn't be more frustrated with Augustine and couldn't be happier its only a one year deal.
    And Vogel is awful in using him. Augustin just like Collison needs a higher tempo and more freedom to get it going. I don't understand why Frank doesn't let our bench run more. It would be better for all three of them: Augustin, Green, Mahinmi.

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  15. #33
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by MvPlumlee View Post
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    And Vogel is awful in using him. Augustin just like Collison needs a higher tempo and more freedom to get it going. I don't understand why Frank doesn't let our bench run more. It would be better for all three of them: Augustin, Green, Mahinmi.
    I couldn't agree more....People were clamoring to get rid of Collison last year, and look at what he is doing now....The same people that wanted him gone are begging for him to come back. The problem doesn't lie solely on the talent, our issue is how we use our talent. Collison and Augustin are both fast paced distributers that have done well for themselves everywhere other than Indy, so OBVIOUSLY the player is the issue, not the system they're in and how they're used....

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  17. #34

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    So who do you have in mind as the new owner, and where would they move the team?
    The point was, this team is not going to seriously get better until the owner becomes committed. They are not going to put fans in the seats until they become committed to winning and bring in a product that people want to see. They need a draw and they have none. They keep selling us on the idea that they can win without a player that can carry a team when it struggles. They can not. Just like tonights game. There is no player you can count on to come out and play great, you have to keep your fingers crossed and hope someone shows up. We don't have that reliable guy that plays well on most nights.

  18. #35
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    And you know how committed or how uncommitted Herb is based off what exactly?

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  20. #36

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Now I read on hoopshype that the Pacers showed interest in Rashard McCants before he signed with a team in China. This GM doesn't get it. We need proven players not more projects.

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  22. #37

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    And you know how committed or how uncommitted Herb is based off what exactly?
    Do you ever hear him say this is not acceptable. Do you ever hear him hold himself accountable for anything. He has obviously put restraints on the GM or we wouldn't be talking about guys like McCants. Does anyone think McCants would help turn this thing around. If you care you will do whatever it takes to put fans in the stands. Obviously the people in charge don't know how to do it. He seems oblivious to what is going on and to me that is not commitment.

  23. #38
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    He's horrible. I mean just awful. Really should not play a minute, if all things were equal and this was a team that was just playing guys based on what they provide, he might get cut. If he doesn't assert himself soon and no that doesn't mean start jacking up shots like is being said, then I hope he gets DNP/CD really soon. Same with Mahimni. I couldn't be more frustrated with Augustine and couldn't be happier its only a one year deal.
    I am with you on this. I have made my desires known on this situation. The Pacers need to try something else.
    Mahinimi is not far behind. If things continue to be this bad it is time to play Plumlee and Ben H. Certainly by the half way point if things are still the same. It is really sad to watch the way the team is playing. Fumbling balls, watching rebounds waiting for someone else to get it, horrible shooting, etc..
    {o,o}
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  24. #39
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    DJ has been horrendous so far. He looks either lost or out of control most of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by MvPlumlee View Post
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    Augustin is a true PG. We just don't have the bigs to run the pick and roll, slow footed and unhandy as they are. Pick and pop might work with West, Mahinmi and Hibbert if he can practice on it first.

    Shuffle the rotation and give them more freedom on offense first before blowing things up.

  25. #40
    billbradley
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    Do you ever hear him say this is not acceptable.
    Because most NBA owners find success that way.

    Do you ever hear him hold himself accountable for anything. He has obviously put restraints on the GM or we wouldn't be talking about guys like McCants.
    How is that obvious? Who do you suggest we talk to?

    Does anyone think McCants would help turn this thing around. If you care you will do whatever it takes to put fans in the stands. Obviously the people in charge don't know how to do it. He seems oblivious to what is going on and to me that is not commitment.
    You think we are just going to magically blow it and be the Thunder? Is it possible that the team is fine or there isn't a deal to be done right now that makes them better? We can't even move Hill or Hibbert January, and most other teams are in the same boat with new signings.

    Simon has nothing to do with our players not making shots. Simon has nothing to do with our max guy not stepping up. Simon has done his part. Signed players and made great improvements to BLF.

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  27. #41
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    My two cents is that our offense is initiated by the wings, not the point guard, so we have a problem because our number one wing can't initiate anything.

    Granger, if covered from the perimeter, was able to make something happen. Paul George can't. He makes a turnover, he drives hell bent into traffic and gets blocked, he charges, he is not quick to find the open man.

    Lance and Hill should play those two roles. Frankly, I don't care if Paul George sits. Great kid, nice defender at times (though makes a lot of mistakes), and nice rebounder, but we don't need rebounds at the two. We need offensive production.

    Somebody with stones needs to step up and make this happen.
    .

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    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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  29. #42
    Member WhoLovesYaBaby?'s Avatar
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by xtacy View Post
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    and i have a better idea for you. don't read this thread. it's easier than following another team. just try.

    trust me everone on this board including the ones in this thread wants this team to be good. but we suck right now and we want this to change as much as you do. this is a thread where people write their opinions on how to change it. call it overreacting, kneejerk i don't care. the thread title perfectly explains what kind of things will be written in this thread. if you don't want to see those overreaction posts don't read. and if you disagree just say it without telling people ******** like to follow other teams. this "we want/know the best for this team, you jerks are just overreacting" attitude is just ****.
    Who's talking to you?

  30. #43
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    I disagree. The team doesn't need to be blown up. They lost to a good team yesterday. They couldn't beat the Knicks in New York last season with Granger so we should've known they weren't going to win yesterday.

    The team needs some changes but there's no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

  31. #44
    I Believe In Gerald Green repole's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Maybe Larry Bird IS walking through that door at seasons end?
    I figured I wouldn't have to see the "walking through the door" line anywhere but on Celtics forums. Apparently Rick Pitino's legacy goes on

    A Gerald Green fan who now finds himself rooting for the Suns.

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  33. #45
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    My two cents is that our offense is initiated by the wings, not the point guard, so we have a problem because our number one wing can't initiate anything.

    Granger, if covered from the perimeter, was able to make something happen. Paul George can't. He makes a turnover, he drives hell bent into traffic and gets blocked, he charges, he is not quick to find the open man.

    Lance and Hill should play those two roles. Frankly, I don't care if Paul George sits. Great kid, nice defender at times (though makes a lot of mistakes), and nice rebounder, but we don't need rebounds at the two. We need offensive production.

    Somebody with stones needs to step up and make this happen.
    Agreed. I don't know what Paul has done to deserve so many minutes this year. I think his defense is overrated.
    David "And One" West

  34. #46
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    So who do you have in mind as the new owner, and where would they move the team?
    Stephen Simon, the son of Herb has already been said to be the next owner of the team.

    I don't get why moving is mentioned are here? Ownership changes occur all the time and it doesn't mean moving.

    It's ridiculous this is brought up.

  35. #47
    can't wait to see this v Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    I'm open to blowing it up.

    But it doesn't matter, it's not happening. The franchise couldn't survive it, they'd completely lose the city/state. So there's no point in really talking about it.

  36. #48
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I'm open to blowing it up.

    But it doesn't matter, it's not happening. The franchise couldn't survive it, they'd completely lose the city/state. So there's no point in really talking about it.
    We cannot survive another 4 year run of losing, which is where this group is headed. We suffered enough during the JOB years. This city needs a championship. We have waited long enough
    David "And One" West

  37. #49

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Chill. Out.

    Are there some flaws? Yes. But the core of this group is likely to be successful once healthy.

    Let's wait for our best player to get back. kthx.

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  39. #50
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    We cannot survive another 4 year run of losing, which is where this group is headed. We suffered enough during the JOB years. This city needs a championship. We have waited long enough
    The team sucks right now. There's a gigantic possibility they don't suck for the next 4 years, and it's pretty likely. Title? No. But playoffs and wins. It's not ideal, but much better than the alternative.

    Blowing it up means the team unquestionably sucks for multiple years. That's how you lose a state.

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