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This team needs to be blown up (OLD thread!! 2012)

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  • Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
    He should try to come back dress up as Batman and in his Batmobile, that would be cool.

    I was just thinking, if you're riding on a white horse, you don't even need knees!


    Comment


    • Re: This team needs to be blown up

      Originally posted by Pacergeek View Post
      Not sure why anybody would be happy with another second round playoff exit. We, as fans, should have higher expectations
      You can have high expectations but this team does not have the superstars needed to go deeper into the playoffs. I predicted a first round exit before the season started and a slip to the 5th or 6th seed in the East. The Pacers did not do anything to improve their starting lineup although I am quite sure that they never drank the koolaid that insisted they already had the best starting unit in the NBA. Look at the entire NBA history of this team. One finals appearance and, I think, two ECF appearances. What makes you think they are going to get there now? Look back at some of the predictions for this team this year and you will see how out of whack, the fans expectations are. That said, this team does not need to be blown up, that takes years of rebuilding to fix and the fan base is already terribly small. It would be much better to try and make a deal to add a really good player to this current team and keep working on getting those fans back...

      Comment


      • Re: This team needs to be blown up

        Originally posted by Pacergeek View Post
        I love your optimism, but the reality is that the NBA is a superstar-driven league.
        This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. When you win you are then viewed as a superstar, and when you don't win it's always counted against you even if you are a superstar.

        Paul Pierce saw his status rise dramatically just by being a top scorer on the Celtics title team, and even KG and Ray Allen saw improvements in how they were viewed. But KG had better years and looked sharper while in Minny failing to win it all.

        Barkley and Reggie were on the flipside always having to justify their status.


        If the Pacers last year had won it all then people would think of West, Danny and maybe Roy as great. Keep in mind that to win it all they would have had to have more games like the ones where they beat Miami, so now you have more times on TV scoring points, more times being shown as the winner, more times having your image redefined by the media.

        Same guys, different view. And suddenly everyone says "we gotta follow the Indiana model to draft well and home-grow the superstars" or "first Detroit and now Indiana have proven that it's a different era". I know this is true because it's how all sports are reported and viewed.

        Whatever works is what is defined as great, even if 5 other teams have the same thing and flopped. And this definitely applies to "must have a superstar" because every season tons of all-stars and Dream Team types go home empty handed and no one says "time to throw that model away because it failed".

        Comment


        • Re: This team needs to be blown up

          Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
          This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. When you win you are then viewed as a superstar, and when you don't win it's always counted against you even if you are a superstar.

          Paul Pierce saw his status rise dramatically just by being a top scorer on the Celtics title team, and even KG and Ray Allen saw improvements in how they were viewed. But KG had better years and looked sharper while in Minny failing to win it all.

          Barkley and Reggie were on the flipside always having to justify their status.


          If the Pacers last year had won it all then people would think of West, Danny and maybe Roy as great. Keep in mind that to win it all they would have had to have more games like the ones where they beat Miami, so now you have more times on TV scoring points, more times being shown as the winner, more times having your image redefined by the media.

          Same guys, different view. And suddenly everyone says "we gotta follow the Indiana model to draft well and home-grow the superstars" or "first Detroit and now Indiana have proven that it's a different era". I know this is true because it's how all sports are reported and viewed.

          Whatever works is what is defined as great, even if 5 other teams have the same thing and flopped. And this definitely applies to "must have a superstar" because every season tons of all-stars and Dream Team types go home empty handed and no one says "time to throw that model away because it failed".
          It's a chicken or an egg thing, I get what you're saying, winning can make you a super star.

          But maybe superstars just win?

          Dunno, it's tough for me to not agree with the superstar folks after last year, not saying you can't win a title with a TEAM, just saying it's a lot harder when you hit the playoffs.


          Comment


          • Re: This team needs to be blown up

            Originally posted by BillS View Post
            Well, no, if this happens and we go out in the second round there will be cries to blow it up because we're "only" the Atlanta Hawks and getting to the second round two years in a row is proof we're not good enough.

            Remember, Championship or abject suckage failure. No middle ground.
            This is why I must sit in the front row or I don't watch the game at all. I don't get why so many fans here settle for 2nd rate viewing situations. Perennial losers I guess.

            Comment


            • Re: This team needs to be blown up

              Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
              This is why I must sit in the front row or I don't watch the game at all. I don't get why so many fans here settle for 2nd rate viewing situations. Perennial losers I guess.
              Some of us don't consider front row as superior. In fact I hate sitting in the front row of the floor level.

              Comment


              • Re: This team needs to be blown up

                Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                It's a chicken or an egg thing, I get what you're saying, winning can make you a super star.

                But maybe superstars just win?

                Dunno, it's tough for me to not agree with the superstar folks after last year, not saying you can't win a title with a TEAM, just saying it's a lot harder when you hit the playoffs.
                You also have to take into consideration that the team is still young, and it is rare that a young team wins the championship. It is usually veteran teams who have played together for a full season or two before they win a championship.

                Comment


                • Re: This team needs to be blown up

                  Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                  It's a chicken or an egg thing, I get what you're saying, winning can make you a super star.

                  But maybe superstars just win?

                  Dunno, it's tough for me to not agree with the superstar folks after last year, not saying you can't win a title with a TEAM, just saying it's a lot harder when you hit the playoffs.
                  It is a little chicken-egg, I don't disagree. I just hate they "you must have" when every season there are more teams failing using that model than winning.

                  I mean guys like Melo or Nash qualify as superstars and they don't make the Finals even. And then guys like Ellis or Joe Johnson or Blake Griffin - if their TEAM wins it all and they are playing, they are going to obtain superstar status unless they just were miserable in the post-season.


                  There's a similar stat of "must have a top 5 pick". Well no s*** all the title teams have top picks. That's because you have 8-10 active draft classes which makes 40-50 top 5 picks, and with a salary cap it's kinda hard for teams to assemble more than 2. Miami is barely getting by and has a bench so bad they could lose games for them. They are paying those 3 players nearly their entire cap space and they didn't even draft 2 of them.

                  Plus top 5 picks have less uncertainty for failure. They might not be stars but they have enough talent to stay in the league and land on teams, whereas pick #20 is hit and miss. So then you find that many teams have a top 5 pick which qualifies them for this rule (ahem, Mike Dunleavy) so the odds are that a random choice of teams will have a top 5 guy on it.


                  Just like no one threw out the stupid "no FA will sign in Indy" theory even though David West took a dump all over it in the first off-season the Pacers ever had cap space to go after someone, at least since maybe 1986.
                  Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 11-21-2012, 02:41 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Re: This team needs to be blown up

                    Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                    This is why I must sit in the front row or I don't watch the game at all. I don't get why so many fans here settle for 2nd rate viewing situations. Perennial losers I guess.
                    You and Bill were season ticket holders when JOB was the coach I don't think you can judge other people for expecting more out of the team, as I see it doesn't matter if the worse coach in Pacers history is coaching because you two are still going to go to the games.

                    My point is that anytime you are telling me anything about the team and "how happy we should be just to make it to the playoffs and don't set your goals too high or you are going to be miserable" I take it with a truck load of salt because I know that either way you are going to be there.

                    No disrespect but fans like you are the ones that keep mediocre teams stay mediocre, when a front office knows that you are going to show up not matter what they don't try hard to put a product that could actually compete for a championship, again no disrespect
                    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                    Comment


                    • Re: This team needs to be blown up

                      Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                      You and Bill were season ticket holders when JOB was the coach I don't think you can judge other people for expecting more out of the team, as I see it doesn't matter if the worse coach in Pacers history is coaching because you two are still going to go to the games.

                      My point is that anytime you are telling me anything about the team and "how happy we should be just to make it to the playoffs and don't set your goals too high or you are going to be miserable" I take it with a truck load of salt because I know that either way you are going to be there.

                      No disrespect but fans like you are the ones that keep mediocre teams stay mediocre, when a front office knows that you are going to show up not matter what they don't try hard to put a product that could actually compete for a championship, again no disrespect
                      Pretty much all of this post is completely hilarious and BS too.


                      Comment


                      • Re: This team needs to be blown up

                        Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                        This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. When you win you are then viewed as a superstar, and when you don't win it's always counted against you even if you are a superstar.

                        Paul Pierce saw his status rise dramatically just by being a top scorer on the Celtics title team, and even KG and Ray Allen saw improvements in how they were viewed. But KG had better years and looked sharper while in Minny failing to win it all.

                        Barkley and Reggie were on the flipside always having to justify their status.


                        If the Pacers last year had won it all then people would think of West, Danny and maybe Roy as great. Keep in mind that to win it all they would have had to have more games like the ones where they beat Miami, so now you have more times on TV scoring points, more times being shown as the winner, more times having your image redefined by the media.

                        Same guys, different view. And suddenly everyone says "we gotta follow the Indiana model to draft well and home-grow the superstars" or "first Detroit and now Indiana have proven that it's a different era". I know this is true because it's how all sports are reported and viewed.

                        Whatever works is what is defined as great, even if 5 other teams have the same thing and flopped. And this definitely applies to "must have a superstar" because every season tons of all-stars and Dream Team types go home empty handed and no one says "time to throw that model away because it failed".
                        First time I hear that superstars are build on the playoffs, I guess Lebron was not a superstar before winning the finals, Wade was not a superstar before winning a championship, yep Howard, CP3 and Melo are not superstars either.

                        I would also like to know how many superstar less teams have won the Championship? one out of how many? and the team that did it had multiple all stars hitting their prime at the same time.
                        @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                        Comment


                        • Re: This team needs to be blown up

                          Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                          No disrespect but fans like you are the ones that keep mediocre teams stay mediocre, when a front office knows that you are going to show up not matter what they don't try hard to put a product that could actually compete for a championship, again no disrespect
                          You mean fans that actually like the franchise, and just don't jump on the bandwagon when they're good? FOR SHAME!
                          Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                          Comment


                          • Re: This team needs to be blown up

                            Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                            You mean fans that actually like the franchise, and just don't jump on the bandwagon when they're good? FOR SHAME!
                            Fans like Seth and BillS and other folks who stick it out and buy tickets are the fans that people who stop spending money on the franchise should be thanking when they come rushing back when the going gets good again. To say that fans supporting the team is one of the reasons the team will stay mediocre is literally one of the dumbest things I have ever read.

                            Anyone with half a brain could figure out that a team that is making more money with more supportive fans is going to be more willing and more able (!This is the key thing) to spend on big time players or on risky trades.

                            The Colts got rid of Manning this offseason not because they thought the fans are just blind dummies who would hang around whether or not the Colts were good or bad, they did it because they could take a chance on Luck because the fans are loyal.

                            You want Simon/Walsh/et. al. to feel comfortable taking risks? Then you better be willing to put your butt in a seat whether the team is 50-32 or 32-50.
                            Last edited by Trader Joe; 11-21-2012, 03:04 PM.


                            Comment


                            • Re: This team needs to be blown up

                              Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                              First time I hear that superstars are build on the playoffs, I guess Lebron was not a superstar before winning the finals, Wade was not a superstar before winning a championship, yep Howard, CP3 and Melo are not superstars either.

                              I would also like to know how many superstar less teams have won the Championship? one out of how many? and the team that did it had multiple all stars hitting their prime at the same time.
                              And really, what actually happens when these superstars fail to win championships? It's pretty much always because they lose to a team with another superstar. Only 1 team can win it all every year. And when guys like Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kobe and Duncan dominate the game for years at a time, it's not like there's much to go around for everyone else (and thus the countless posts complaining about competitive balance, parity).

                              Main reason Karl Malone never won was because Jordan beat him during his best oppurtunities. It's not all that scientific.

                              Heck, if Jordan hadn't taken a hiatus for a couple years playing baseball, it's very possible people would be talking and analyzing why Hakeem was another superstar never good enough to win a ring.
                              Last edited by d_c; 11-21-2012, 03:11 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Re: This team needs to be blown up

                                Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                                You mean fans that actually like the franchise, and just don't jump on the bandwagon when they're good? FOR SHAME!
                                I like those fans(I like Seth, Peck, Bills, etc) I just don't feel like those fans have the right to tell me how upset I should be if the Pacers are out of the playoffs in the first round or don't make it because they go to games and buy seasons tickets not matter what.

                                I other words their point of view is way different than those of us that are not season ticket holders and those of us that don't like to watch a s*** product on the floor.
                                @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                                Comment

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