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Thread: This team needs to be blown up (OLD thread!! 2012)

  1. #51
    Member Speed's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Chill. Out.

    Are there some flaws? Yes. But the core of this group is likely to be successful once healthy.

    Let's wait for our best player to get back. kthx.
    1.) I hope you are right.

    2.) I'd like to nominate Sookie for Sunshiner of the year.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    Stephen Simon, the son of Herb has already been said to be the next owner of the team.

    I don't get why moving is mentioned are here? Ownership changes occur all the time and it doesn't mean moving.

    It's ridiculous this is brought up.
    Ownership changes will mean moving if no one local can be found to buy the team. I can understand dismissing it as a low probability if current ownership remains in charge, but why is it ridiculous to point it out as a possible outcome of "demanding" new ownership?

    In your point about Steve Simon, who's to say he would have any different philosophy from Herb?
    BillS

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  4. #53
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    If the Pacers didn't move when Britton Johnson was in the starting lineup, it's not moving now. It's November people. Adjustments will be made and things are likely to change.

  5. #54
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    The problem is not that we need a true point guard,the problem is not that Hibbert sucks, It's not the players at all it is the front office especially Bird/ Pritchard. Pendergraph, Mahimmi, Augustine, Green, and if not for some luck we'd have Craig Smith, and Rashad McCants. How in the last four seasons How has this not been Birds M.O; we once again have a bunch of D-league like players. Think Diener, Solo, Luther Head, Earl Watson. Only difference is these new guys are now all signed to long-term deals.

    Also I do not understand why a larger contract is supposed to make a guy better Roy is what he is and what he is is pretty good. He is a defensive minded Center who is a solid shotblocker and rebounder, he is not a scorer, and I have no idea why we are trying to make him one. He was certainly never more than the fourth option last year.
    Protect the Promise!!!!

  6. #55
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    The team sucks right now. There's a gigantic possibility they don't suck for the next 4 years, and it's pretty likely. Title? No. But playoffs and wins. It's not ideal, but much better than the alternative.

    Blowing it up means the team unquestionably sucks for multiple years. That's how you lose a state.
    They suck right now anyway and yes probably making it to the playoffs is fun and all but if there is not hope to pass the first round what's the point?

    Call me crazy but in this crappy Eastern conference there is a chance that multiple rebuilding teams make it to the playoff, so they are accomplishing two things, the rebuilding plus they are making it to the playoffs to keep their fans happy, I think the Pacers can do that too.

  7. #56

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    They suck right now anyway and yes probably making it to the playoffs is fun and all but if there is not hope to pass the first round what's the point?

    Call me crazy but in this crappy Eastern conference there is a chance that multiple rebuilding teams make it to the playoff, so they are accomplishing two things, the rebuilding plus they are making it to the playoffs to keep their fans happy, I think the Pacers can do that too.
    Did you even read the first part of the post? You try harder to build narratives than ESPN.

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  9. #57
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    I disagree. The team doesn't need to be blown up. They lost to a good team yesterday. They couldn't beat the Knicks in New York last season with Granger so we should've known they weren't going to win yesterday.

    The team needs some changes but there's no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.
    This is the truth nobody wants to admit.

    Last year we were a good team. This year we took a small step back personnel-wise, but we could still be pretty good if Granger were available. His perimeter shooting is just that important to this team.

    But the point is, the Knicks are a really good team. They are up there with the Chicago's and Miami's in the East...because they simply have a lot more talent than the Pacers. Chicago didn't have Derrick Rose last year and they are better as well. We benefited from Dwight and DRose being out last year.

    So, here we are. Granger is out and we've taken a small step back with the trades. It should be no surprise we got beat bad by NY and San Antonio which is also one of the very best teams in the league.

  10. #58
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Did you even read the first part of the post? You try harder to build narratives than ESPN.
    Whoa, I was just trying to ad more to your comment, sorry for replying to your post.

  11. #59
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Last year was fools gold.
    So, a whole season (even if it was a lock out one) was fools gold but 11 games are a valid sample size?

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  13. #60
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    They suck right now anyway and yes probably making it to the playoffs is fun and all but if there is not hope to pass the first round what's the point?
    And who said that they have no hope to pass the first round?

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  15. #61
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    So, a whole season (even if it was a lock out one) was fools gold but 11 games are a valid sample size?
    It sure is. We lost to Charlotte, a bad Toronto team at home, got blown out by a Bucks team we owned a season ago, got trounced by San Antonio, lost to a Minnesota team without their top player. destroyed by a Knicks team after coming off our best win of the year. Our schedule has been very favorable over the first 11 games. If we were any good at all, we would be at worst 7-4
    David "And One" West

  16. #62
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    It sure is. We lost to Charlotte, a bad Toronto team at home, got blown out by a Bucks team we owned a season ago, got trounced by San Antonio, lost to a Minnesota team without their top player. destroyed by a Knicks team after coming off our best win of the year. Our schedule has been very favorable over the first 11 games. If we were any good at all, we would be at worst 7-4
    No, it isn't a valid sample size. Wanna know why?

    Cause Granger will not be out for the whole season. If he is to be out for the whole season then I agree with your point. But he isn't, so your argument is invalid.

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  18. #63

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    No, it isn't a valid sample size. Wanna know why?

    Cause Granger will not be out for the whole season. If he is to be out for the whole season then I agree with your point. But he isn't, so your argument is invalid.
    There's absolutely no guarantee he will be able to play this season, since he opted to not have surgery. So your counterargument is invalid until we see what happens.

    I'd like to see some creative trade ideas. I think we would need to take on somebody who is high upside but on a short leash. Otherwise, we'd be selling the farm. For example, something like Hibbert & a 1st for Royce White and Asik would help. Houston's got so much young depth that they don't need White at all, and they're clearly looking for some legitimacy inside. Hibbert has been horrible this season, but he's more offensive minded than Asik and would benefit from playing with Lin/Harden. Royce White is a headcase, but he is going to be a stat sheet stuffing wing if he ever gets on the court, and he brings the element that this team needs more than any other: playmaking ability.

  19. #64
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    There's absolutely no guarantee he will be able to play this season, since he opted to not have surgery. So your counterargument is invalid until we see what happens.
    Isn't he supposed to be back in February?

    If yes, then why wouldn't he be able to play this season?

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Last year was fools gold. Besides Stephenson, we have nobody that can beat their man off the dribble and create their own shot. Management doesn't like Lance and was dumb enough to sign Green just so they didn't have to give Lance minutes this year. Hibbert is too slow to consistently be effective, and his contract is laughable. Unless he is in black hole mode, David West also appears too slow to compete in today's NBA. Paul George has shown no improvement since his rookie season, and should be moved. Let somebody else get stiffed on a supposed "franchise" player of the future. If George Hill is your starting PG and the best player, your team is in serious trouble. Our entire bench would be 12th men on contending teams.
    LOL, that's got to be a joke.

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  22. #66
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    Royce White is a headcase, but he is going to be a stat sheet stuffing wing if he ever gets on the court, and he brings the element that this team needs more than any other: playmaking ability.
    1) Royce White is not a headcase. He has a legitimate and diagnosed mental disease.

    2) I don't think that we would be able to put his playmaking ability into good use.

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  24. #67

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    1) Royce White is not a headcase. He has a legitimate and diagnosed mental disease.

    2) I don't think that we would be able to put his playmaking ability into good use.
    plus if Royce White was the answer, he'd be playing already.

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  26. #68

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by the_reverend View Post
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    I disagree with 90% of OP's statements.
    I'm more like 0.9%.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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  28. #69
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    1.) I hope you are right.

    2.) I'd like to nominate Sookie for Sunshiner of the year.
    The sad thing is, I think Sookie's post is very level-headed/middle of the road. Yet it looks like sunshiny optimism right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Isn't he supposed to be back in February?

    If yes, then why wouldn't he be able to play this season?
    It wouldn't surprise me if Granger did miss the season. His injury seems to be a bit unusual - as such, I think the 3 month timetable for recovery is more of a guideline. He could also be back earlier, sure. But it seems that it usually doesn't work out that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    Royce White is a headcase, but he is going to be a stat sheet stuffing wing if he ever gets on the court, and he brings the element that this team needs more than any other: playmaking ability.
    He's not a wing at all - more of an undersized F/C type really. Aside from his other issues, it's not really clear whether he has an NBA position. So I wouldn't pin any hopes of a quick turnaround on a Royce White trade, even if you think his other issues can be ignored.

    Why not go for Burks instead as in the other thread. A much better fit who also provides some playmaking from the SG position.
    Last edited by wintermute; 11-19-2012 at 10:32 PM.

  29. #70

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    It's like we didn't just win a game with our max player finally playing great. Not even a hint of optimism.

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  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    They don't like him. Traded for Barbosa last season and signed Green this year. Theses two took Lance's minutes
    Yes, they hate Lance so much that they made him a starter! If they really get sick of him they'll extend his contract!

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  33. #72
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    It's like we didn't just win a game with our max player finally playing great. Not even a hint of optimism.
    Wallowing in our misery makes for so much better discussion. Leave us alone!

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  35. #73
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    At this point, TPTB has no other choice than to weather the storm.

    This team has several good pieces, even as disfunctional as they presently seem to be. But blowing things up or even trading a couple of the top players? That's idiotic and something that management would not and will not do at this point.

    Why? There a couple of reasons.

    As has been pointed out, we are barely 10% into the season and it's certainly no time for panic and a knee-jerk reaction. If I had reacted this way every time one of my funds or stock choices dipped a little, I'd ended up working until I was 70 and not retiring at 57. We have invested in a few players, so let's take a deep breath, take a step back and ponder the situation.

    In doing this it directly leads to reason #2. We have no idea how this team would perform with the insertion of Granger into the lineup. It could be that some of you are right, and TPTB has created a flawed team from the start. But, I think that it is even more likely that Granger is the missing link that enables the other pieces to perform much better. Now, I will be the first to admit that such a dependence on a single player in itself constitutes a flaw. But if this is the case, having waited for Granger's return will have provided the clarity to determine that. We would also have a very good starting point for further improving the team. In my opinion, that is far wiser than getting rid of players and possibly setting us back a year or two in our roster development.

    The best players on teams usually have qualities that are not duplicated by others on the roster. Without that redundancy, teams are gong to suffer when their best player is unavailable. The only thing that might differ from team to team is the degree to which they will miss that player. For the Pacers, we miss Granger a hell of a lot.

    (And yes, I think it is apparent to even his biggest detractors that Granger can now be identified as our best player.).
    Last edited by beast23; 11-19-2012 at 11:17 PM.

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  37. #74
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Thats why we Cellar for Zeller!

  38. #75
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Remember the last time fans and sponsors forced the team to "blow up" the roster?


    Here's a hint:



    HELL. NO.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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