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Thread: This team needs to be blown up (OLD thread!! 2012)

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    It was brought up before that we have a crappy owner, and I'm starting to agree. An aggressive owner like Irsay or Cuban would've at least tried to make a move to get us over the hump last summer. Management was way too conservative imo
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    If Seth, Bills, and Peck are satisfied with a perennial playoff qualifier, with zero chance for a title, that's totally cool.
    I just don't understand why people are so sure that this team has zero chances for a title.

    Personally, I think that last season proved that they have the potential to take that next step.

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  4. #253
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    We have the same owner we did in the 90s. The team still spends a lot of money. In fact one of the reasons we were where we were from 2005 til 2010 is because we spent too damn much money.

    There are two ways to profit as an owner.

    Keep your team salary way down (Marlins and Clippers, until very recently).


    Or you spend a lot and hope people will show up and support. The Simons have always fallen into this one, now maybe they didn't always make the best personnel moves but there is no doubt about their willingness to write checks. However, you stop supporting the team and you'll see them go the other way fast. They didn't become filthy rich by being idiots.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    It was brought up before that we have a crappy owner, and I'm starting to agree. An aggressive owner like Irsay or Cuban would've at least tried to make a move to get us over the hump last summer. Management was way too conservative imo
    Pretty easy to say when you're not the one losing millions of dollars every year on a team in an empty arena.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    It was brought up before that we have a crappy owner, and I'm starting to agree. An aggressive owner like Irsay or Cuban would've at least tried to make a move to get us over the hump last summer. Management was way too conservative imo
    Dude, Irsay is not they type of owner you think he is. He is very much a get out of the way and let the GM do his job type of owner. Don't let an extreme case of last season lead you to believe anything different.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    We have the same owner we did in the 90s. The team still spends a lot of money. In fact one of the reasons we were where we were from 2005 til 2010 is because we spent too damn much money.

    There are two ways to profit as an owner.

    Keep your team salary way down (Marlins and Clippers, until very recently).


    Or you spend a lot and hope people will show up and support. The Simons have always fallen into this one, now maybe they didn't always make the best personnel moves but there is no doubt about their willingness to write checks. However, you stop supporting the team and you'll see them go the other way fast. They didn't become filthy rich by being idiots.
    The philosophy has always been to re-sign our own players, which isnt a horrible strategy. We have been burned a few times though. Croshere, Tinsley, and now Hibbert.
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    We have the same owner we did in the 90s. The team still spends a lot of money. In fact one of the reasons we were where we were from 2005 til 2010 is because we spent too damn much money.

    There are two ways to profit as an owner.

    Keep your team salary way down (Marlins and Clippers, until very recently).


    Or you spend a lot and hope people will show up and support. The Simons have always fallen into this one, now maybe they didn't always make the best personnel moves but there is no doubt about their willingness to write checks. However, you stop supporting the team and you'll see them go the other way fast. They didn't become filthy rich by being idiots.
    In his mind there's must be a third option, spend money like crazy until you win and then hope you make enough money during that run to make up for all the lost revenue from the years past.

    Can't support the team while their on the path upwards, or you'll just give management a feeling that it's okay to medicore. Gotta wait until they actually win to start supporting them.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    The philosophy has always been to re-sign our own players, which isnt a horrible strategy. We have been burned a few times though. Croshere, Tinsley, and now Hibbert.
    Yes, no doubt, but it doesn't change the fact that Simon has been willing to spend. You got an issue with the strategy then take it up with the GM.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    In other words your level of pain is higher than a lot of those that would never be able to do what you did or do.
    Donnie Walsh: [admiring his roster contraption] Beautiful isn't it? It took me half a lifetime to invent it. I'm sure you've discovered my deep and abiding interest in pain. Presently I'm writing the definitive work on the subject, so I want you to be totally honest with me on how the roster makes you feel. This being our first try, I'll use the lowest setting.
    [Donnie Walsh activates the Pritchard powered roster machine and trades for Ian Mahinmi. vnzla81 writhes in great pain]
    Donnie Walsh: [calmly] As you know, the concept of the sucky roster is centuries old. Really that's all this is except that instead of just building sucky rosters, I'm sucking life. I've just sucked one year of your life away. I might one day go as high as five, but I really don't know what that would do to you. So, let's just start with what we have. What did this do to you? Tell me. And remember, this is for posterity so be honest. How do you feel?
    [vnzla81 cries and moans in pain]
    Donnie Walsh: Interesting.
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  13. #260

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    I think some of you need to take a step back from following sports and find some other way to spend your time. Pro sports is entertainment. If its not good, then don't spend your money on it. If you keep watching even though you hate it, then you probably have a mental health condition. Tyler Perry movies are no good, so I don't watch them. If you think the Pacers product is no good, then stop spending money on it. This is elementary. You really have nothing vested in it and you aren't owed anything.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    The Simons spent money, they went out and got Walsh and Pritchard. Pritchard's whole resume is his crazy aggressiveness on trades.

    They paid for West. They overpaid for Hibbert. They overpaid for Green and Mahinmi. Again, these are GM issues, not ownership issues. Don't criticize the Simons and especially don't criticize the fans who helped support the team like Vnzla did.

    Heck, I don't even want to think about what we might be spending on Brian Shaw to be an assistant if I'm the Simons. I'm sure it's not a small number when it comes to assistant coaches.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    The last three pages of this thread have been hilarious.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Banta View Post
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    I think some of you need to take a step back from following sports and find some other way to spend your time. Pro sports is entertainment. If its not good, then don't spend your money on it. If you keep watching even though you hate it, then you probably have a mental health condition. Tyler Perry movies are no good, so I don't watch them. If you think the Pacers product is no good, then stop spending money on it. This is elementary. You really have nothing vested in it and you aren't owed anything.

    Sports masochism or something. If the only way for you to be truly happy is to win championships, then Boston/LA are probably better fits for ya.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Sports masochism or something. If the only way for you to be truly happy is to win championships, then Boston/LA are probably better fits for ya.
    I mean the guy openly admits he believes the Pacers intentionally mislead (that they never really intended to build a contender, and that we all, including him fell into the trap) him for almost half a decade of his life and he is still content to hang around here so....

    What makes their plot to deceive even more interesting is that in the intent to make the plot as realistic as possible, they have spent ridiculous amounts of money on guys (Hill, Hibbert, West, Granger) with the direct intention of deceiving us all. So that they can I don't know laugh at us maniacally or something, because Lord knows they aren't making any money from this intentional misrepresentation that they have sold to us all.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Banta View Post
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    I think some of you need to take a step back from following sports and find some other way to spend your time. Pro sports is entertainment. If its not good, then don't spend your money on it. If you keep watching even though you hate it, then you probably have a mental health condition. Tyler Perry movies are no good, so I don't watch them. If you think the Pacers product is no good, then stop spending money on it. This is elementary. You really have nothing vested in it and you aren't owed anything.


    As someone who spends my money on the team, whether it be tickets, merchandise or clothing, I feel that there should be some return on investment. But to say I have a mental deficiency because I currently have a love-hate relationship with my hobby, that's no bueno, buckaroo.

    I have been a Colts, Pacers and Reds fan all my life. Please note that all three of these teams are small-market franchises in their leagues. The majority of these 26 years of my existence those teams have put up not very impressive records, with the Colts and Reds winning two championships since 1990. So out of 22 years my teams have seen the promised land twice. The Colts did have a very decent 2000-2010, but still, the 90s were atrocious. Bad seasons are all part of it. In the NBA, the large market teams have won a whopping 47% of the Championships since 1976. That's a ridiculously huge number. The chances of us winning are obviously smaller.

    Look...

    We all know that sports is an escape from the everyday. You're right, it is entertainment. But I am not going to spend money on something that sucks. Or am I? A sports team and a bad movie are like comparing apples to oranges. A movie (hypothetically) gets released once. If it's bad, the idea is scrapped. If it's good, look... a sequel.

    A sports franchise is looked at almost the same way, but on a different level. The cast, crew and sometimes audience changes from each iteration. But if that cast, crew etc. are stinking it up, well, the audience won't show up.

    With that said, the Cubs are a perfect example. Compare them to a movie (or movie franchise) that you think was/is horrible. Well, both of these mediums of entertainment have a HUGE cult following. Gigantic. Regardless if in the public eye that something isn't appealing to some or most, it still is loved fanatically by someone.

    Take that into consideration before you question people's mental capacities.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I mean the guy openly admits he believes the Pacers intentionally mislead (that they never really intended to build a contender, and that we all, including him fell into the trap) him for almost half a decade of his life and he is still content to hang around here so....

    What makes their plot to deceive even more interesting is that in the intent to make the plot as realistic as possible, they have spent ridiculous amounts of money on guys (Hill, Hibbert, West, Granger) with the direct intention of deceiving us all. So that they can I don't know laugh at us maniacally or something, because Lord knows they aren't making any money from this intentional misrepresentation that they have sold to us all.
    They have to spend money regardless so stop with that bs, teams have a minimum of salary to spend so is not like your great example of the Marlins either.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Those expectations were set up by the Pacers front office and their 3,4,5,6 maybe seven or eight years rebuilding plan, they didn't say "hey let's wait for the contracts to expire so we can sign a bunch of scrubs back", they said "we are going to do whatever is possible to build a team were we can compete for a championship" have they done that? nope.

    We were all fooled to think that they were really going to do something and we bought the bs they were selling.
    We spent money on guys. West, Roy, George, Green, Mahinmi...they just aren't the players YOU wanted. A lot of the players that ppl, including myself, wanted to bring in during the offseason, Brand, Mayo, Dragic, Lowry, Scola--are playing on teams they're either below or right at .500. They're generating bout the same type of results on middling teams. Simon seems to not want to put all his eggs and money into one basket or player. Who he decided to spend money on can be debated but the fact that he tried cannot. IMO

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    And I'm a Pacers fan because I've been a fan since I was a little kid back home and I was watching games a 2 o'clock in the morning, I even had a Reggie Miller poster in my door so stop with the "you are not a true fan bs because you don't want to spend money in a mediocre team".

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    As someone who spends my money on the team, whether it be tickets, merchandise or clothing, I feel that there should be some return on investment. But to say I have a mental deficiency because I currently have a love-hate relationship with my hobby, that's no bueno, buckaroo.

    I have been a Colts, Pacers and Reds fan all my life. Please note that all three of these teams are small-market franchises in their leagues. The majority of these 26 years of my existence those teams have put up not very impressive records, with the Colts and Reds winning two championships since 1990. So out of 22 years my teams have seen the promised land twice. The Colts did have a very decent 2000-2010, but still, the 90s were atrocious. Bad seasons are all part of it. In the NBA, the large market teams have won a whopping 47% of the Championships since 1976. That's a ridiculously huge number. The chances of us winning are obviously smaller.

    Look...

    We all know that sports is an escape from the everyday. You're right, it is entertainment. But I am not going to spend money on something that sucks. Or am I? A sports team and a bad movie are like comparing apples to oranges. A movie (hypothetically) gets released once. If it's bad, the idea is scrapped. If it's good, look... a sequel.

    A sports franchise is looked at almost the same way, but on a different level. The cast, crew and sometimes audience changes from each iteration. But if that cast, crew etc. are stinking it up, well, the audience won't show up.

    With that said, the Cubs are a perfect example. Compare them to a movie (or movie franchise) that you think was/is horrible. Well, both of these mediums of entertainment have a HUGE cult following. Gigantic. Regardless if in the public eye that something isn't appealing to some or most, it still is loved fanatically by someone.

    Take that into consideration before you question people's mental capacities.
    I think you are missing his point. You enjoy being a Pacer fan, even if they aren't actually playing well at the moment. He is talking more to people like vnzla who obviously does not enjoy the Pacers, unless he has some kind of masochistic fetish.

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  31. #270
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Dude, Irsay is not they type of owner you think he is. He is very much a get out of the way and let the GM do his job type of owner. Don't let an extreme case of last season lead you to believe anything different.
    I believe differently. Yes, he let the Polians run the team. He isn't letting his GM do that now or he would have made better decisions..... Irsay has been an extreme case for a long time. He got lucky and got Peyton Manning for a lot of years. He is not likely to get that "lucky" again.....

  32. #271

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Complain about how money gets spent all you want, there're clear grievances there, but if anyone wants to accuse Herb Simon of being cheap you're flat out stupid.

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  34. #272
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I think you are missing his point. You enjoy being a Pacer fan, even if they aren't actually playing well at the moment. He is talking more to people like vnzla who obviously does not enjoy the Pacers, unless he has some kind of masochistic fetish.
    And you missed mine. I pointed out that we have generally sucked well over the past two decades.

    Also, vznla doesn't hate the Pacers, he just strongly dislikes and questions TPTB and players.

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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    We spent money on guys. West, Roy, George, Green, Mahinmi...they just aren't the players YOU wanted. A lot of the players that ppl, including myself, wanted to bring in during the offseason, Brand, Mayo, Dragic, Lowry, Scola--are playing on teams they're either below or right at .500. They're generating bout the same type of results on middling teams. Simon seems to not want to put all his eggs and money into one basket or player. Who he decided to spend money on can be debated but the fact that he tried cannot. IMO
    They didn't spend money in upgrading the starters because "they wanted to keep the starters together", I also love the accusation that I'm somehow mad because "they didn't bring the players I wanted".

    I would like to ask this question because it seems that those that are making excuses for the team are the same people that thought the Pacers had a great off season and that me and others were just wrong because "we didn't get who we wanted", how many more games do you think the Pacers need to play for many of you to realize that the off season was horrible? or you are never going to admit it because that gives credibility to those that thought this off season was garbage.

  37. #274
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    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    They didn't spend money in upgrading the starters because "they wanted to keep the starters together", I also love the accusation that I'm somehow mad because "they didn't bring the players I wanted".

    I would like to ask this question because it seems that those that are making excuses for the team are the same people that thought the Pacers had a great off season and that me and others were just wrong because "we didn't get who we wanted", how many more games do you think the Pacers need to play for many of you to realize that the off season was horrible? or you are never going to admit it because that gives credibility to those that thought this off season was garbage.

    Hey I wanted to bring in OJ myself. I even advocated giving him the 8 mil per that he wanted. It's not just players you wanted, it was players on the market that different ppl wanted to improve the team. Pritchard and Simon had a different idea if what the team needed. Right now we don't know who was right and who was wrong bc a lot of those players we wanted, are having the same middling results our current group is producing--give or take a few games here or there.

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  39. #275

    Default Re: This team needs to be blown up

    I don't know how many times I have to repeat that OJ Mayo turned down more money from other teams and that, in my opinion, one of them was us.

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