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Thread: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

  1. #1

    Default What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    For one, I'm a diehard pacer fan. With that said, I think the two main problems is George Hill and Roy Hibbert. For one, I was NEVER impressed with George Hill as a point guard last year. Hes a wonderful combo guard but not a legit starting point guard. The main problem now is, we over paid for him, and now we are stuck with him.

    Next is Roy Hibbert, he is 7'2 and he can't dominated. I want to see him get the ball deep and just simply dunk over his man. He never does this, he is too weak. Is Hibbert a bad player? No hes just overpaid for what little he does. He looks good against bad players, but when he goes up against a duncan, chandler, or noah he cant do anything. He is too soft and is too easily pushed off.

    They should have let George Hill walk, he wanted too much money. They couldnt do that because they wasted a 1st round pick on him, so they overpay for a combo guard. Was Collison the answer? Probably not but hes a better point guard.

    I think their only chance right now is let DJA start, and move hill to 2, and PG to the 3, until granger is back. Turn up the tempo a bit and get some fast breaks going between dja, hill, and george. Then in the half court sets, feed the ball to west/hibbert and when they double team find the freaking open guy.

    Once granger is back, they are better off starting DJA instead of hill, HE IS NOT A LEGIT POINT GUARD. I have yet to witness him run the fast break and get an assist. Hell I'd rather witness lance starting than Hill

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    The problem is our offense...good, consistent shooting specifically. When you lose Granger and replace Collison, Barbosa and DJones...you lose a lot of shooting ability and need to make that up. The problem is, the Pacers have not replaced it and we are paying for it in spades.

    DJ Augustin is killing us. He's not only a poor defender he's not producing on offense. He averaged double figures and seemed like a good player. But his performance has been lacking and he is nothing close to the offensive threat Collison was. I am very, very unimpressed by Augustin.

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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Hill isn't a good point guard and I thought we overpaid him big time but he isn't too bad this season. It's Hibbert who really disappoints me, though then again we knew what we were getting when we gave him that contract
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    Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    George Hill is one of the few players I've been happy with this year.
    DG for 3

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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    The problem is our offense...good, consistent shooting specifically. When you lose Granger and replace Collison, Barbosa and DJones...you lose a lot of shooting ability and need to make that up. The problem is, the Pacers have not replaced it and we are paying for it in spades.

    DJ Augustin is killing us. He's not only a poor defender he's not producing on offense. He averaged double figures and seemed like a good player. But his performance has been lacking and he is nothing close to the offensive threat Collison was. I am very, very unimpressed by Augustin.
    I would like to see B Hansbrough given a shot.
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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    I would like to see B Hansbrough given a shot.
    Laughable.

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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by ColeTheMole View Post
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    George Hill is one of the few players I've been happy with this year.
    yeah, me too. More and more the $40M looks like a good investment.

    Now I'm not totally sure, but it appeared to me the Knicks were sagging into the paint big time. And the guys on the perimeter were just not hitting their shots. Now maybe I'm wrong, would not be surprised , but that's my take on things. The fastest way to fix things is for Paul George and Lance to hit shots. Plus Melo is just too big for Paul to guard.

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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller_time04 View Post
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    Laughable.
    DJ's play has been laughable. I'm all for experimenting with lineups, Ben playing over DJ is something I'd want to see way before we see DJ promoted to the starting lineup.

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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    Hill isn't a good point guard and I thought we overpaid him big time but he isn't too bad this season. It's Hibbert who really disappoints me, though then again we knew what we were getting when we gave him that contract
    Its funny, no one was saying this last year when he took the starting job over collison
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Don't forget our "genius" trade/FA signings. But, I agree Hill is not a point and DJ is a bad one. Don't give a damn if Hibbert is a 7 foot C, he's no way worth what he got right now. I am praying he rebounds from this over the remainder of the season. Otherwise say it with me, "A-L-B-A-T-R-O-S-S"! Coaching has to be under the microscope as well.
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  19. #11

    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Hill would be good in a triangle type offense. I haven't been impressed with his pick and roll ability tbh. We need a two guard who can handle the ball and make plays for teammates (i'm not sure lance is that guy yet)

    Hibbert is being paid like he's a number 1 guy, but he's really 4th or 5th guy on a contender. he's just not efficient enough

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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Personally, I'd love to have hill at 2. Yeah, he's a little short, but he does have nice playmaking skills for a sg. He might actually shoot better (although never a shaprshooter I suspect) without the drain of the pg responsibilities.
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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    The problem is our offense...good, consistent shooting specifically. When you lose Granger and replace Collison, Barbosa and DJones...you lose a lot of shooting ability and need to make that up. The problem is, the Pacers have not replaced it and we are paying for it in spades.

    DJ Augustin is killing us. He's not only a poor defender he's not producing on offense. He averaged double figures and seemed like a good player. But his performance has been lacking and he is nothing close to the offensive threat Collison was. I am very, very unimpressed by Augustin.
    Why do you think Charlotte allowed him to leave. I saw where fans said he was not what the stats said he was and we would be sorry we added him....

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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyle View Post
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    DJ's play has been laughable. I'm all for experimenting with lineups, Ben playing over DJ is something I'd want to see way before we see DJ promoted to the starting lineup.
    I thought the point was Ben over Hill, which is laughable. Ben vs DJ, at least the way DJ is playing and shooting, that's in the park of reasonable. However as much as I like Ben's game, I still think it's a bit of an overreach to think of him as a legit 15 mpg 2nd string PG. He's a gamer but he's not loaded with NBA level talent. Maybe if he had a dead-eye outside shot.



    The primary problem is 28m getting the team some solid inside defense and nothing else. Roy has just got to get out of his funk, esp with Danny out. Paul was obviously not ready, which isn't really a surprise.

    However for all the "we changed the offense one morning before a game" talk, that's the item that's laughable. I mean I'm all for Vogel trying to fix things, but it's is NOT REALISTIC to think the team will just instantly fix everything before a game.

    The solutions will take weeks. The talent is there but the connections have them aimed squarely at a lottery pick.

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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    I also laugh at the blame on the bench. Young was the big goat, then comes in and shows that he's part of the solution. His defensive awareness has been a highlight the last 2 games. He covers up a lot of mistakes by others simply on awareness.

    Mahinmi wasn't great today, but he's already looking better than Lou and appears to have more room to grow. His thing is confidence and awareness because he's big, fast and strong.

    Green hasn't been the big scorer the last few games but his athletic ability has done wonders on defense and rebounds. He stops things that would otherwise be easy scores with plays that go unnoticed.



    The issue isn't them because West, Roy, Hill and Hibbert are struggling just as much. Hill's getting by on guts and an ability to drive in transition. The problem is when/where they are getting each other the ball.



    Oh, and they happen to be a damn elite defensive squad and look to be getting better at that end. So while the offense is one of the most disgusting things this side of a JOB 3pt chuckfest, the defense is something they can hang their hat on.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Why do you think Charlotte allowed him to leave. I saw where fans said he was not what the stats said he was and we would be sorry we added him....
    I've seen him play and I thought he would be better. I didn't expect him to be as good as George Hill, but I didn't realize he wasn't better than AJ Price. Augustin makes TJ Ford look like a superstar.

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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I also laugh at the blame on the bench. Young was the big goat, then comes in and shows that he's part of the solution. His defensive awareness has been a highlight the last 2 games. He covers up a lot of mistakes by others simply on awareness.

    Mahinmi wasn't great today, but he's already looking better than Lou and appears to have more room to grow. His thing is confidence and awareness because he's big, fast and strong.

    Green hasn't been the big scorer the last few games but his athletic ability has done wonders on defense and rebounds. He stops things that would otherwise be easy scores with plays that go unnoticed.



    The issue isn't them because West, Roy, Hill and Hibbert are struggling just as much. Hill's getting by on guts and an ability to drive in transition. The problem is when/where they are getting each other the ball.



    Oh, and they happen to be a damn elite defensive squad and look to be getting better at that end. So while the offense is one of the most disgusting things this side of a JOB 3pt chuckfest, the defense is something they can hang their hat on.
    One of the bench benches in the NBA hands down.

  28. #18

    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    Its funny, no one was saying this last year when he took the starting job over collison
    I was.

    I've always maintained that he's not a PG.

    This is coming from a person who really likes Hill for what he is too.

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  30. #19

    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    We will be allright once we get that creating SG, Barbosa type of player only this time starter material.

    And a bit more freedom for some of our players wouldn't hurt either. Augustin in particular.

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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    what's wrong...... what's wrong is we suck...
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

  32. #21

    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I also laugh at the blame on the bench. Young was the big goat, then comes in and shows that he's part of the solution. His defensive awareness has been a highlight the last 2 games. He covers up a lot of mistakes by others simply on awareness.

    Mahinmi wasn't great today, but he's already looking better than Lou and appears to have more room to grow. His thing is confidence and awareness because he's big, fast and strong.

    Green hasn't been the big scorer the last few games but his athletic ability has done wonders on defense and rebounds. He stops things that would otherwise be easy scores with plays that go unnoticed.



    The issue isn't them because West, Roy, Hill and Hibbert are struggling just as much. Hill's getting by on guts and an ability to drive in transition. The problem is when/where they are getting each other the ball.



    Oh, and they happen to be a damn elite defensive squad and look to be getting better at that end. So while the offense is one of the most disgusting things this side of a JOB 3pt chuckfest, the defense is something they can hang their hat on.
    Sorry, not buying it. DJ is a downgrade from DC and AJ. Green is a downgrade from Barbosa (and Certainly from Hill when we played him at the backup 2). Although I like Young (a lot, actually), I'd rather have Dahntay. And Lou and Ian are pretty much a wash. If Hans and Lance hadn't improved it would be scary. Perhaps part of it is chemistry hasn't been developed. But that's only part.

    It's not all their fault. Granger isn't playing, Hibbert is essentially not playing. PG hasn't taken over as the star. West is still West. And Hill is Hill playing out of position. Our collective team IQ isn't too high. The Pacers Struggle to pass, shoot, and box out.

    Now, Indiana usually gets beat by New York anyway. And all teams go through spurts of crap. and I'll be honest and say that I think Danny would fix a lot of the problems. (Particularly the mental side of what's going on.) Because not only is his shooting and toughness desperately needed because this team can't shoot and isn't mentally tough, but that will take the focus of defense off of Roy and PG. Which can only help them.

    I don't know what to do with this team. Speeding up the game sounds like a good idea, considering the team's handicaps. But when you can't pass and you can't rebound, and your Bigs are slow and slower..that's not exactly a primary option. Anything else and execution is going to be an issue..with no real point guard..poor passing/movement/ball movement. Vogel's simple inside outside offense is probably the best approach honestly, we just have to be able to shoot in order to fix it.

    But yes..at least they can play defense.

  33. #22
    Member LoneGranger33's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I was.

    I've always maintained that he's not a PG.

    This is coming from a person who really likes Hill for what he is too.
    I'll second this. I was still beating the drum for Collison during the last ten games of last season - I think he got a raw deal, and I still think George Hill received more credit than he deserved for those wins (all against sub-.500 teams, if I recall correctly). I think we overpaid him for sure.

    All that said, I can't place much blame on him for this 4-7 start. Our offense is all-around ******. My concern is that when/if we fix it, it will require a better facilitator than Hill to succeed.

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  35. #23

    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Roy just can't maintain his position. His balance is poor and smaller guys can push him off balance so he doesn't make plays.

    I'm ok with Hill. We need lance.
    Last edited by speakout4; 11-18-2012 at 07:42 PM.

  36. #24
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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Hill, Young, Tyler, West, Lance.

    Start those guys until PG & Roy decide they want to play. That's our best lineup right now.

    The bench is not better. It's not even equal right now. Maybe with some longer-term development Mahinmi will turn into something, but right now he's an inconsistent, often out of control foul machine.

    And I don't deny everyone is sucking, they are. The problem is defense only gets you so far. Even with Granger back, still don't have the consistent shooting threat or the player capable of breaking down D off the dribble to score or create for others. Still don't have a legit starting-caliber point guard.

    Despite Bird's greatness, Walsh as the scapegoat, or Pritch's slap or lack there of, this team has failed to acquire the necessary skill sets and level of player(s) to complement what they've got . I think this will go down as the issue. Even with a healthy Granger, there's no guarantee of more than 45 wins and maybe advancing as far as last year best case.
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    Default Re: What is wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Revikan View Post
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    Next is Roy Hibbert, he is 7'2 and he can't dominated. I want to see him get the ball deep and just simply dunk over his man. He never does this, he is too weak. Is Hibbert a bad player? No hes just overpaid for what little he does. He looks good against bad players, but when he goes up against a duncan, chandler, or noah he cant do anything. He is too soft and is too easily pushed off.
    It isn't that he can't dominate, it's that he's been the worst player on the court more often than not. His slump has been unbelievably bad, both offensively and defensively.

    Once he gets it figured out he'll be fine, but he's absolutely been useless on the court this season. It's semi-acceptable for him to be shooting 45% if he's staying involved defensively, but this season he's more like 30% and really not making an impact, unless you count the negative impact.

    When you're not getting any production out of a member of your starting 5, and another is out hurt, you're gonna have a bad time.

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