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Thread: 11/18/2012 Game Thread #11: Pacers Vs. Knicks

  1. #326
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: 11/18/2012 Game Thread #11: Pacers Vs. Knicks

    People believe what they want to believe regarding sports, and it doesn't matter if you provide them with video or statistical evidence.

    LeBron isn't clutch (must clutch player in the NBA by far)
    Kobe is clutch (ha!)
    Peyton can't win
    Granger can't score
    etc.. etc.

    Believe what you want I guess.
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  2. #327
    Member LoneGranger33's Avatar
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    Default Re: 11/18/2012 Game Thread #11: Pacers Vs. Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    People believe what they want to believe regarding sports, and it doesn't matter if you provide them with video or statistical evidence.
    Couldn't people be saying the same about you right now?

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  4. #328

    Default Re: 11/18/2012 Game Thread #11: Pacers Vs. Knicks

    Okay expert. I guess I can't possibly have the level of understanding that you possess. And if 37 percent from three is REAL good, we really are in trouble. I'd say it's average for an NBA wing, but not REAL good. REAL good is like 42 percent or higher.

    So Pacers fans like myself don't understand PnR defense? No I haven't watched almost every game for 17 years or anything. I understand just fine how it is supposed to be defended. Hill just lacks the physical tools to be good at defending it. Not strong enough to fight through the screens, and not quick enough to recover coming around them. Most point guards are good at one or the other, but Hill seems to be bad at both.

    And what numbers has Hill consistently produced that make him our best defender? So far if you ask me, Hansbrough is our best defender. And Lance is a better defender than Hill, so is Sam Young. I just don't get this love affair of Hill's defense.

  5. #329
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: 11/18/2012 Game Thread #11: Pacers Vs. Knicks

    I think you're right Mattie. I don't think anyone understands that the guard normally is supposed to stay with the big until he can recover, and the big needs to show and get back quickly. Our bigs are normally caught in the middle between staying and showing so George has to stay on the big a tad longer so they can't roll to the basket for open layups.

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  7. #330
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: 11/18/2012 Game Thread #11: Pacers Vs. Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    Okay expert. I guess I can't possibly have the level of understanding that you possess. And if 37 percent from three is REAL good, we really are in trouble. I'd say it's average for an NBA wing, but not REAL good. REAL good is like 42 percent or higher.

    So Pacers fans like myself don't understand PnR defense? No I haven't watched almost every game for 17 years or anything. I understand just fine how it is supposed to be defended. Hill just lacks the physical tools to be good at defending it. Not strong enough to fight through the screens, and not quick enough to recover coming around them. Most point guards are good at one or the other, but Hill seems to be bad at both.

    And what numbers has Hill consistently produced that make him our best defender? So far if you ask me, Hansbrough is our best defender. And Lance is a better defender than Hill, so is Sam Young. I just don't get this love affair of Hill's defense.
    If a player comes down and shoots only threes (lets imagine no turnovers, passes or anything), and he shoots 37% from downtown, than he would be scoring exactly 1.1 points per possession. Here is a hint: That is really good.

    By the way Reggie Miller was obviously a poor three point shooter according to your reasoning. He only shot 39% from three.
    Last edited by mattie; 11-18-2012 at 03:00 PM.
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  8. #331
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: 11/18/2012 Game Thread #11: Pacers Vs. Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Couldn't people be saying the same about you right now?
    No. Because I have provided evidence. You guys haven't.

    However, I do need to do a video breakdown of George Hill over an entire game so we can all see how he is really doing since we call can't agree on how well he is doing on defense. Here in the next couple of days I'll try to upload every possession Hill played on defense vs the Knicks so we can all better understand what he's doing.
    Last edited by mattie; 11-18-2012 at 03:02 PM.
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  9. #332

    Default Re: 11/18/2012 Game Thread #11: Pacers Vs. Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    If a player comes down and shoots only threes (lets imagine no turnovers, passes or anything), and he shoots 37% from downtown, than he would be scoring exactly 1.1 points per possession. Here is a hint: That is really good.

    By the way Reggie Miller was obviously a poor three point shooter according to your reasoning. He only shot 39% from three.
    Well I was thinking more along the lines of the season percentages, not career. 42 percent or higher will put you top 10 all time. But 42 percent for a year is REAL good, and people do it all the time. Mark Price broke 50 percent for a year didn't he? I'm just saying that is REAL good. I'd say during the season, Reggie was pretty decent. But not near the best 3 shooter percentage wise. During the playoffs he took it to another level though. Up until like his last 4 years, he averaged around 42 percent and that was REAL good. And the years he shot over 42 percent were his best shooting years. That's REAL good. Not 37 percent. And again minus Reggie's last year and he averaged over 40 percent from three for his career. That is REAL good, not 37 percent for a career verse backups for the most of it. Let's not act like Geroge Hill was going against starters in San Antonio when they have a certain Tony Parker on their team.

    So stop putting words in my mouth. I said 37 percent is average. I said 42 percent was REAL good. Reggie's career average of 39.5% is good, not poor. Reggie Miller in the playoffs until he started to age was REAL good.

  10. #333

    Default Re: 11/18/2012 Game Thread #11: Pacers Vs. Knicks

    I suppose it's subjective, but the way I see it 33% is acceptable for a volume shooter who scores in other ways (think Kobe). 35% means you can justify threes being a large part of your game. 37+ means you probably have the green light most of the time.

  11. #334

    Default Re: 11/18/2012 Game Thread #11: Pacers Vs. Knicks

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Is Hansbrough our best on ball defender? Seriously.
    I was wondering the same thing. His defense seems to have really improved this year. Hi's moving his feet and has much better speed than I thought. Should we start him at the 3 and turn PG loose on SG's again?

  12. #335

    Default Re: 11/18/2012 Game Thread #11: Pacers Vs. Knicks

    JMHO, but I think George Hill gets a lot of undeserved complaints. George is a really good combo guard that the Pacers have decided has to be our point. It's not GH's fault that we over paid him without at least letting him test the market. It's also not his fault that his teammates miss open shots after he get them the ball. I think switching GH to the SG and Lance to the point on defense would probably help our PnR defense. George and Lance, IMO, are both good combos with Lance's strength making him a better defender on PnR. It would be pretty easy to test the theory, but I don't expect it to happen. My only complaint with Hill is that he just seems to not see Tyler get open in the paint or just refuses to pass him the ball. Maybe Hans needs a flag so somebody besides West and Lance can find him.

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