If I run the conference and ND wants in I tell em to kick rocks. But I know that wouldn't happen. I'd say ND + whomever, Virginia, UNC, to get to 16, but I don't see any way UNC leaves Duke. I hate to say it, they're a founding member, but if someone HAD to go it'd be Northwestern.
I know what adding ND would mean, but if it meant booting a founding member of the oldest conference I'd honestly be pretty upset. I know tradition doesn't matter anymore, but that's way too much tradition to just toss aside.
These are the AAU schools:
Boston University (2012)
Brandeis University (1985)
Brown University (1933)
California Institute of Technology (1934)
Carnegie Mellon University (1982)
Case Western Reserve University (1969)
Columbia University (1900)
Cornell University (1900)
Duke University (1938)
Emory University (1995)
Georgia Institute of Technology (2010)
Harvard University (1900)
Indiana University (1909)
Iowa State University (1958)
The Johns Hopkins University (1900)
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (1934)
McGill University (1926)
Michigan State University (1964)
New York University (1950)
Northwestern University (1917)
The Ohio State University (1916)
The Pennsylvania State University (1958)
Princeton University (1900)
Purdue University (1958)
Rice University (1985)
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey (1989)
Stanford University (1900)
Stony Brook University-State University of New York (2001)
Texas A&M University (2001)
Tulane University (1958)
The University of Arizona (1985)
University at Buffalo, The State University of New York (1989)
University of California, Berkeley (1900)
University of California, Davis (1996)
University of California, Irvine (1996)
University of California, Los Angeles (1974)
University of California, San Diego (1982)
University of California, Santa Barbara (1995)
The University of Chicago (1900)
University of Colorado Boulder (1966)
University of Florida (1985)
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (1908)
The University of Iowa (1909)
The University of Kansas (1909)
University of Maryland, College Park (1969)
University of Michigan (1900)
University of Minnesota, Twin Cities (1908)
University of Missouri-Columbia (1908)
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (1922)
University of Oregon (1969)
University of Pennsylvania (1900)
University of Pittsburgh (1974)
University of Rochester (1941)
University of Southern California (1969)
The University of Texas at Austin (1929)
University of Toronto (1926)
University of Virginia (1904)
University of Washington (1950)
The University of Wisconsin-Madison (1900)
Vanderbilt University (1950)
Washington University in St. Louis (1923)
Yale University (1900)
I would boot Penn State's *** before Northwestern. But I agree with you in general, I'm not a big fan of bending over just for ND.
Why doesn't UNC leave Duke? Here's the thing about Duke, if Coach K leaves and they implode then what? Duke could have some trouble finding a home.
Re: Texas going independent: The new system makes that much more difficult to do and be successful. Isn't that the reason Notre Dame is on the path towards joining a conference?
Also, no one would get booted for Notre Dame. That ship has sailed and it doesn't open up any additional media markets or recruiting grounds.
If Knight leaves IU and they implode (even if they did for a couple years) then what? Duke's not going anywhere, K or no K. I agree that as a stand alone school Duke doesn't add a lot, but you bring the UNC/Duke rivalry to the conference you've now got the biggest football game of the year (arguably) and biggest basketball game/s. That makes TV rights worth that much more.
Plus I mean hell, OK we have some work to do in football, but the Big Ten's still got every ability to be the best in the country. And we're already the best basketball conference as it stands right now (don't tell Maryland fans that).
IU is a much bigger school than Duke. We had a history before Knight and now we are forming a history after Knight. I think Duke is in a tough spot since they basically have to rely on UNC saying they are a package deal to ensure they get pulled into a big conference.
I'm not saying I dislike the idea of Duke, but I'd be lying if I said I'm not a bit skittish about what happens when people try to follow Coach K.
I agree K (I like that neither of us can spell it) made Duke what it is today, but they weren't exactly nothing before him. Certainly weren't IU pre-Knight but they had 3 Final Fours before K. They aren't UConn pre-Calhoun. Maybe they'll take a step down, but they're a Blue Blood now, they'll continue to be ranked and get top tier recruits. Unless they just COMPLETELY blow it. And obviously major sanctions don't keep a Blue Blood down forever anymore.
If we could get UNC w/o them then I'm all for it, but it's just too weird to think about. UNC + UVa would be a great 15th and 16th.
Imagining the summer of the Duke job opening (whenever it comes) is a little mind blowing right now honestly. Haha
It's coming sooner rather than later, gotta be within 5 years or so, if not even sooner. There's what, like...3 schools that would feel safe? Cal, Crean, and Williams are the only ones I could see not at least taking an interview. Oh, and probably Izzo. But if he didn't have all the local ties...
I don't know that I'd leave either of UCLA or KU for Duke, but I'd absolutely consider it. Maybe after they go through a couple years of a sacrificial lamb anyway, like Capel or Wojehowski or however you spell it, that annoying dude that always slapped the floor on D.
Big Ten lacrosse did just get a lot stronger. In no way am I saying that registered as anything other than "ok, yeah, that's neat" for Delaney, but it's REALLY growing, especially in the Chicago area. Say ESPNU starts putting some lacrosse games on, more TV money.
Re: The Rutgers adding the NYC/NJ TV markets. People keep saying Rutgers isn't relevant in that area and are laughing at the Big Ten's ploy to get into those markets. While that is part of the reason, people need to take into account the number of alumni from current B1G schools that live in the area. I know the New York area feeds a lot of students into Big Ten schools.
new divisions, Illinois flips to the Legends, UM and RU to the Leaders, based off what Maryland was told. not official, but rumored
Leaders: Ohio St, Wisconsin, Penn State, Purdue, Indiana, Maryland, Rutgers
Legends: Nebraska, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Northwestern, Iowa, Illinois
and if/when they go to 16 schools, no more freakin red and white. That should be a priority, and I kind of actually mean it.
Last edited by Heisenberg; 11-19-2012 at 04:02 PM.
This x 1000.
Two things to remember. #1, This is all about money and geography. And #2, basketball's irrelevant (unless you're Duke, and even then, you're probably still not relevant). It might as well be lacrosse when it comes to realignment. The Big Ten added Rutgers and Maryland for the NYC and DC TV markets.
I agree the end game for the Big Ten, and the SEC, are 16 schools. Those are the big dogs in college football (and sports) And whoever posted that the AAU list is important to the Big Ten is absolutely right. That's why my prediction for the next two Big Ten schools are:
Virginia and Georgia Tech
Two AAU schools. The Atlanta market. 3 million BTN subscribers in Virginia. 4 divisions of 4 schools for football.
I think the SEC adds Virginia Tech and North Carolina State (UNC won't leave Duke, and vice versa). The Big 12 grabs Florida State and Clemson, while offering the same sweetheart deal to Notre Dame to allow them to maintain their independence in football. The ACC grabs the remaining current Big East football playing schools. The non-FBS Big East schools team with Xavier, Dayton, and Butler to form one heck of a basketball conference. Boise State and San Diego State come to their senses and stay with the Mountain West. And I have no idea what happens to Memphis, SMU, Central Florida, and Houston.
And I don't like this. I'd rather see the Big Ten maintain 12 schools. Behold progress.
In all of this the only two schools who weren't already within a Big Ten state that I would have been ok (but not thrilled) with adding were Mizzou and Kansas. They are the only two schools I can really look at and say, "Yes, they would fit in the Big Ten." Nebraska, I don't know, they really seem to fit better with Texas and Oklahoma. Maryland, ACC all the way. Rutgers, might as well be located in Hawaii as far as I am concerned.
Anyways it is really a shame all this is happening, but I understand in this world greed is more important than tradition.
It's just going to be 4 super conferences of 16 eventually, and you better be in one of them or you're screwed for anything football. Basketball is just an after-thought to most every major university, and I agree, Duke (and UNC in an attached deal) need to find a spot and go before they're left behind. North Carolina is going to make the decision out of the two because they at least try to field football teams, where Duke doesn't really.
It'll be Pac 12, SEC, Big 10, and Big 12 for football where the ACC and Big East are going to fall apart or the mainly basketball only schools go there.
"It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."
----------------- Reggie Miller
I agree it's going to wind up being 4 16 team conferences, that's pretty obvious really. I understand why people don't want it, but you better get with it or be cool with the Big 10 becoming a second tier conference. Bigger conference = more money = better sports. Well better resources at least. Better option than taking revenue from the academic side.
And when that happens I'm going to start dreaming that they tell the NCAA to go screw itself and start their own governing body.
Last edited by Heisenberg; 11-21-2012 at 05:27 AM.
I think the ACC and Big 12 will end up doing some form of merging after their current members do the dance with the "major" players (Big Ten, SEC, Pac-12). I could still see the Pac-12 adding Texas, Oklahoma, and another two Big 12 teams, while the SEC poaches Florida State and another ACC team. The Big Ten, now that I think about it, will probably end up with Georgia Tech (perfect fit on paper with this madness: access to a big market we currently aren't in [ATL], member of AAU, gives us a recruiting pipeline to the South, which is key for football recruiting especially) and a team like Virginia.
UNC, if they so insist upon being a package deal with Duke, is going to get left out of this dance. If they are willing to throw away their rivalry with Duke, then they would be a no-brainer addition for the Big Ten along with GA Tech.
First of all, I completely agree with your last sentence. Let's hope that happens.
However, I don't think there will be 4 16 team conferences. The Big Ten and SEC are the rulers of this next stage of realignment. And remember, this is about money and geography. Which is why there is NO CHANCE Florida State, Miami (Florida), Georgia Tech, or Clemson will be joining the SEC. They have those markets. And don't forget, the on-field product doesn't matter as much as the geography and the markets you can bring to the conferences. The Big Ten got Maryland and Rutgers for their markets, not for their on-field products.
The reason I think there won't be 4 16 team conferences is because there is no logical teams for the Pac-12 to add. The Pac-12 and Big Ten will send their champs to the Rose Bowl. The Big 12 and SEC will send their champs to the Sugar Bowl (in 2 years). That matters. If the Big 12 is smart and proactive, they'll reach out to Florida State and Clemson soon, bringing those programs to a football conference from a basketball conference. It makes more sense, IMO, for both schools, if they can afford to leave. Then, if they get those schools, they can offer the same deal to Notre Dame that the ACC did.
I think Virginia Tech ends up in the SEC. And if North Carolina wants to leave Duke, the SEC will grab them as well. If not, they'll take North Carolina State.