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Thread: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

  1. #1
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    Default Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    This is all assuming we won't make trades or change coaches.

    Look, I wanted to believe in the idea that Frank had for this season to make Hill a point guard all day, every day, in hopes that he might evolve and become (in my eyes) a more Billups-esque PG (meaning someone who was seen as a SG become a big, scoring point guard who learned to run a team).

    But circumstances (Danny being out 3 months, these terrible early games) seem to dictate that this should be abandoned because we desperately need a shot in the arm, and one of the ways to maybe do that is to play to our immediate, short term strengths.

    This isn't a perfect solution for a few reasons, but I think I would like to see us give this lineup an extended try:

    Augustin, Hill, George, West, Hibbert.

    What I like about it:

    1. I think it could wake DJ up and make him more comfortable, which adds something we currently don't have while he's a zombie off the bench.
    2. It allows Hill to play where he's most comfortable and in turn he should start playing more instinctively and not have to think too much.

    What I'm am ambivalent about:

    1. Moving Paul to the 3 could help or hurt. It should give him a speed advantage over his opponent, theoretically making it easier for him to dribble drive, but at the same time they will be bigger and stronger and he may not be physically capable of dealing with that full time.
    2. This may or may not provide three shooters to help space the defense for West and Roy.
    3. DJ Augustin is someone who's already been a starting point guard for several years (including a stretch under the coaching of Larry Brown) might be healthy for our 5-man unit in terms of having a better feel for pacing, running/calling plays, etc. He might serve as a straw to stir the drink better than Hill has been doing.

    What I'm concerned about:

    1. DJ plays bad defense.
    2. This asks either Lance or Ben to play serious minutes at point guard with our already sucky bench.
    3. This might mean more Sam Young.

    Think it's worth trying? No? Yes?

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    Sure, but then we need to acquire a better point guard than Augustin

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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    Yes I like the idea.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Sure, but then we need to acquire a better point guard than Augustin
    Lance
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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    BillS

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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    I would rather stay with Lance and Hill, but give Lance more time in the point situation.

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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    I have been saying this. I would however start lance at point.
    He is a heck of a lot better on d than D.J. and I think G3 gets more open looks.
    Also Lance can attack the basket and kick it back out to an open PG or G3. I am for one not a big D.J. fan at the moment. He still has time though to earn some trust.

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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    Sure, why not. The team certainly can't play any worse. At this point, I'd be fine with him playing center if it meant that the Pacers would win games.
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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    I have been clamoring for more of a role for DJ since we acquired him....Hell I was asking to bring him in last season....The man can play, there is no doubt about that in my mind....His defense is week, but he can facilitate for others....Get him back in the game and bring him out of this slump by letting him run with the starters....Honestly, at this point, it can't get any worse....

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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    I was thinking Vogel would go with that here and there. Especially at this point with Danny out. GH is a good PG, but not a pure one. He racks up assists, but doesn't create much for others.

    It's definitely worth a shot if push comes to shove. Augustin has been invisible so far.

  16. #11

    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    We need to acquire A POINT GUARD. We don't have an NBA starting quality one on our roster.

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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    I appreciate your theory as a way to make a change up to make something happen.

    However, I agree with several others on here that the obvious first solution to try is give Lance more control of the offense. He is still viewed as a bit of a fifth wheel, even though he has our best percentages, makes the best passes, loosens up the defense best by far of any player, and has a knack for scoring.

    He clearly has not been given a green light to run the offense for any amount of time. He needs to be allowed to make about five mistakes or so in a game before quitting the experiment. He needs to KNOW he will have five mistakes to make while he attempts to rev up the offense.

    If that has been honestly tried and clearly failed, then I'm open to your DJ theory—even though his defense sucks and he has not shown himself worthy of the promotion.
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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    That is the exact lineup that I thought the Pacers should go with when Danny's injury was announced.

    Offense requires passing, and a point guard who facilitates for others and finds players either in scoring position or in a position to immediately find the scorer with an entry pass more quickly than the defense is able to rotate.

    This lineup is the closest the Pacers have to that, and I think it is worth the downgrade defensively to not rely on Hill as a point guard offensively. He is too used to looking to score as a two to be reliable in finding others, and that is understandable.

    Of course, that would also require a change in offensive philosophy on the part of the coaching staff as well, but I think they can adapt to this reality.

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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    The problem that I see with running Lance at the 1 with George at the 2 is that both of these players are our best option at scoring from outside. You will see the same issue putting Lance at the 1 that you see with Hill at the 1...Lack of scoring, plus you take your scoring umph away from the second team.... With DJ, you know he can distribute, not so much a scorer, so putting him at the 1 really doesn't effect your ability to put up points by taking away a scorer....

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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    Though I can see what you're saying, we would be very bad defensively. We would have 3 below average defenders within our starting lineup (I'm including Hibbert who can block shots, but is horrid in pick and roll defense) and the benefit in offense wouldn't make up for the negatives defensively, IMO.

    Everyone talks bout a PG that can distribute to others, but as Mike Brown has shown, it doesn't matter who your PG is if your offensive system isn't conducive to a PG. So unless we are implementing a new offensive strategy, the PG position isn't going to make much of a difference.

    Edit: now if we start Ian nd move Roy to the bench, I think we'd potentially be able to get through it. But that'd only help this season. Hill will be best served as a PG moving forward, you can't complain about him being a PG if you're not going to let him concentrate on playing it.
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 11-16-2012 at 02:45 PM.

  23. #16

    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    Maybe Dallas will trade us DC for Mahinmi, we'll even let them keep Dahntay!

  24. #17

    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    If our offense doesn't start to click tonight, that is definitely something I would consider doing.

    I don't know about Hibbert setting and defending screens with Augustin though. He is just so vulnerable and useless on the perimeter.

    Start Mahinmi until he gets two fouls or Hibbert has found his mojo back!

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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by threein73 View Post
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    Maybe Dallas will trade us DC for Mahinmi, we'll even let them keep Dahntay!
    LOL.

    That would be nice.
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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    I'm not opposed to moving Hill to SG. Maybe we could trade Paul George for a starting caliber point guard? I don't think Augustine will be the answer.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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  27. #20

    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Sure, but then we need to acquire a better point guard than Augustin
    At this point, might as well try Ben...

  28. #21

    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    I'm not opposed to moving Hill to SG. Maybe we could trade Paul George for a starting caliber point guard? I don't think Augustine will be the answer.
    I'm 100% sure Augustine isn't the answer.

    Augustin perhaps...

    It's mind boggling how many write his name wrong.

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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    That won't fix the issues the Pacers have, is not like they are going to change how they run the simple offense either.

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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    I'd hate to reward Augustin with a starting spot despite a severe lack of effort and interest as the backup, but anything to shake up this group is worth trying. My main concern is that the offensive sets won't work any smoother with Augustin than they do with Hill, but that remains to be seen. Wouldn't mind seeing Orlando Johnson get a couple minutes either. Now granted, the guy couldn't hit a thing in summer league or preseason, but why not, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by MvPlumlee View Post
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    I'm 100% sure Augustine isn't the answer.

    Augustin perhaps...

    It's mind boggling how many write his name wrong.
    To be fair, Augustine (as in St. Augustine) is a much more common spelling. I've seen Gerald Green getting an extra "e" too, and it certainly isn't for extra effort. I think we can blame Orien Greene for that one.

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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Sure, but then we need to acquire a better point guard than Augustin
    The backup PG for the Jazz dealt 14 assists in a start the other night. I wonder if he's available......
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    Default Re: Is it time to put Hill at the 2?

    I've always felt a little uncomfortable with GH being our point-guard, primarily because I just don't think he is one. I really see him as a Jason Terry type of guy - a sixth man, combo-guard who can play spot-minutes at point, but is more of a scorer.

    Since Mark Jackson left, we really haven't had a true point guard. Tinsley was/is, but we all know what happened there. TJ, DC and Hill aren't traditional PGs either. What we need is a true facilitator. I'd be willing to try the line-up you propose, moving Hill to the 2, PG to the 3 and sliding Augustin to the starting 1 spot. I'm not saying he's the answer there, but moving him to the 1 might light a fire under his *** and would move Hill to a more natural role for him.

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