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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Fixing the Pacers Offense and Attacking Zone Defenses

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  • Fixing the Pacers Offense and Attacking Zone Defenses

    Because of the Pacers slow pace and very predictable offense, most teams are successfully stopping the Pacers with zone defenses. Even when they play man-to-man, the lack of movement away from the ball makes it easy for defenders to contest any pass made or shot attempted.

    Even last year the Pacers struggled against Zone defenses. Remember that collapse against Sacramento in January? The Pacers led by 14 and went 6-25 in the fourth quarter on their way to a disappointing loss. A Sacramento beat writer broke down how the Kings successfully attacked the Pacers with their zone play-by-play.

    http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2012/1...indiana-pacers

    With the exception of recovering on loose balls and offensive rebounds, the Kings were almost perfect defensively in the fourth quarter. This wasn't a fluke with the opponents missing tons of open shots. This was an opponent completely thrown off by the zone, the quickness of the Kings lineup and its own inability to get anything easy.
    Why do they struggle against the Zone? Sure they miss Danny's ability to knock down 3s but there are several ways to attack a zone other than knocking down 3s. You can attack it by increasing the motion of the offense. Motion away from the ball keeps the defense guessing. Setting screens can force a zone defender into moving out of position or create favorable mismatches.

    I've noticed is that the Pacers movement and screening technique in the halfcourt has been very poor and at time non-existent. What happened to setting screens to free up shooters? I haven't seen them do much of that since the first half of the first game of the season against Toronto. A lot of that is on the ball handler because they don't run their man into the screens properly and the other half of the problem is that they just don't set screens often enough. That's on the coaching staff as much as it is the players

    From the Guide to Basketball Coaching:
    The coach should never use players at a position where they show no ability. He should assign duties that best utilize the abilities of each player. The offense should keep the best rebounders in position to rebound, and the good shooters should take the most shots. All the others should understand proper screening technique to be able to screen for the better shooters.
    I think the Hibbert has been miscast as Patrick Ewing in our offense. He doesn't even have Rik Smits game in the post or shooting ability from the perimeter so unless he can post up and seal his man deep inside the lane, don't throw the ball to him in situations where he has to try to dribble and back his man down. I think he's at his best when he can catch the ball in a position to score. Think of how the Dallas Mavs and the Knicks used Tyson Chandler. That should be the way he's used in the Pacers offense. He should be setting a lot of screens away from the ball to free up shooters and could be used in Pick-and-Roll situations at the top of the key. He could wind up with some nice easy dunks if he slashes to the basket hard off those picks.

    The 4-1 Zone Offense could help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...w&feature=fvwp


    Another way to hurt the Zone is to increase the tempo. So far the pace is way too slow and they are getting into their sets very slowly. That could be because of Hibbert and West. Neither player will win any foot races but they must push the tempo using a controlled fast-break. They were actually pretty successfully last year when they used this type of offense. Darren Collison was perfect for this type of offense but George Hill was also effective later in the season when he became the full-time starter.

    I'm no coach but I've watched enough games in my to see that the offense is stagnant. I'm sure Vogel and Shaw see it as well. It will be interesting to see if they incorporate any of these tactics. If not, it'll be a very long and painful season.

  • #2
    Re: Fixing the Pacers Offense and Attacking Zone Defenses

    Sorry for another long post but I didn't want the points in the OP to get lost with what I'm posting here.

    I think this is what the current Pacers offense is - Double-Post Motion. Someone with more knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong. Below is a good description of what it is. After reading this description, I don't think that this is the best offense for the Pacers because of they just don't have enough good perimeter shooters. However, the issue could also be that the post players just aren't executing the plays properly (neither West or Hibbert move enough on offense).

    Originally posted by GuidetoBasketballCoaching
    http://www.guidetocoachingbasketball.com/offenses.htm

    Double-Post Motion basketball offense

    [b]Positioning Rules[b]

    The Post Men:

    You have 2 post players in this offense. They may locate at/or near 7 different spots:

    low post(s).
    mid post(s).
    elbow(s).
    top-half of free throw circle.

    When the offense begins both posts go down low and post up.

    The Perimeter Players:
    You have 3 perimeter players. The 5 spots they can locate at are:

    the point.
    the wing(s).
    the corner(s).

    When the offense begins the ball is in the point's hands and the other two players are usually in the wing areas. Perimeter players should try to stay about 12 feet apart. If you are more than 12 feet apart - the ball is in the air longer and the chance for a deflection increases.

    If you are closer than 12 feet you allow a defender to defend the pass and still be in position to stop the drive. Keep proper spacing.

    General Rules

    When you make a pass you must move - it is easy to guard someone standing still.

    Only dribble for the following reasons:

    to make an immediate drive to the basket.
    to improve your angle of pass to your teammate.
    to get out of trouble.
    to prevent a 5 second count violation. It is very important that your players understand what the 5 second count is.

    Post Rules

    Both posts should immediately go to the low post area on each side of the lane and post up. You want the ball in the low post - thus it is very important you teach your players how to post up.

    When the ball is passed from point to wing, this is when the posts begin to work together with rules. The weak side post will key on how his offensive post partner is defended.

    If the post on ball side is fronted the weak side post will flash ball side elbow. If he receives a pass we look for the low post pin and a high low play. If no high low pass then high post slides down and players have just switched spots.

    If the ball side post has the defense playing behind him - the weak side post breaks straight up the lane to the weak side elbow. We want the ball passed into the low post every time in this situation.

    Note if the weak side post defender doubles down then the weak side post player needs to get a pass out from the low post for the elbow jumper.

    If the defense plays the ball side low post with a 3/4 defense then the ball side post will come and screen for the weak side post. If the defense switches on this play - the screener always steps back to the ball.

    A teaching point we always use to prevent turnovers - low post player has his hand up yelling for the ball. When player is going to vacate the post (screen away), we drop our hand a one second count before we turn and go. This prevents turnovers when you pass and the player has vacated the post and the ball hits him in the back of the head.

    [b]The post player always has the freedom to break up to the high post when he sees the point to wing pass having trouble being made. This movement opens up the backdoor cut for the wing player.[b]

    Perimeter Rules

    The perimeter players have 5 spots to locate in. They can do the following:

    pass and cut to the basket and relocate to an open perimeter spot.
    pass and screen a partner perimeter player away from the ball.
    pass and "v" cut and replace yourself.
    relocate with a shallow or deep cuts.
    pass and slide - this is cutting to an open spot away from the ball.

    Any time that a pass is made to a high post player, the perimeter player who made the pass sets a pick for the perimeter player closest to that post with the ball. Using this pick that player cuts off the post looking for a hand off and an open path to the basket. Otherwise, keep good spacing, using the 3-point arc to help.
    The points in bold are what the Pacers don't do a good enough job at for this offense to be successful.
    Last edited by naptownmenace; 11-16-2012, 11:37 AM.

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    • #3
      Re: Fixing the Pacers Offense and Attacking Zone Defenses

      I didn't read this thread (sorry), just the title. No point to cause I know what it will say. why is it that people from all over have to explain to the public on how bad the Pacers are.

      I honestly don't think Frank knows how to attack a zone defense let alone run an offense best suited for his team and our best penetrator (DC) to help break a zone down is no longer with us. KP and Walsh just didn't see it necessary to have someone who can pick the tempo up and penetrate at will like DC....hmmm So, what the heck was they thinking? How to keep Big Roy!

      What exactly did Frank do in the off season, obviously, he didn't study our team and weaknesses to prevent this monstrosity from happening.


      Come on Pacers, get it together, this is very depressing!!!
      Garbage players get 1st round picks, (WTF)! All of the NBA must hate the Pacers! LOL

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Fixing the Pacers Offense and Attacking Zone Defenses

        This is somewhat quite obvious but Shaq is right we have to get Hibbert easy Buckets.
        http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nb...ime-pacers.nba

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Fixing the Pacers Offense and Attacking Zone Defenses

          Originally posted by Daniel33 View Post
          This is somewhat quite obvious but Shaq is right we have to get Hibbert easy Buckets.
          http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nb...ime-pacers.nba
          You're right and Shaq pointed out something else the Pacers don't do. Post-and-Repost. Good point. They have to get into their offense quicker to do that. Even if they do it's going to be tough to score. Shaq forgot to mention that he had Brian Shaw, Rick Fox, Glen Rice, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, and Ron Harper to toss the ball out to.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Fixing the Pacers Offense and Attacking Zone Defenses

            Originally posted by Daniel33 View Post
            This is somewhat quite obvious but Shaq is right we have to get Hibbert easy Buckets.
            http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nb...ime-pacers.nba
            This is what I've been saying. He holds on the ball for far too long before making a move. He needs to decide to go left or right within 1-2 seconds. If he doesn't have anything then pass it out.

            All the while, when Roy does get into trouble, it always seems like our guys are on the opposite end of the court just standing around. There needs to be plans in place that as soon as Hibbert starts to make his move, the other guys need to move too. Run screens or something to get someone open in case Roy is in trouble.
            First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Fixing the Pacers Offense and Attacking Zone Defenses

              Originally posted by Sparhawk View Post
              This is what I've been saying. He holds on the ball for far too long before making a move. He needs to decide to go left or right within 1-2 seconds. If he doesn't have anything then pass it out.

              All the while, when Roy does get into trouble, it always seems like our guys are on the opposite end of the court just standing around. There needs to be plans in place that as soon as Hibbert starts to make his move, the other guys need to move too. Run screens or something to get someone open in case Roy is in trouble.
              Seriously, it shouldn't be so *****ing hard.
              First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Fixing the Pacers Offense and Attacking Zone Defenses

                Jeff Van Gundy says it best when he said the NBA is a "make or miss league". Right now our best players (Hibbert, Hill, West, George) are missing VERY makeable shots. To me, this more than anything, has been the issue.

                Comment

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