That says "expecting him to facilitate", not that they are arguing he is a great facilitator. If you want me to respond to your points, at least portray my view accurately. Our offense has never been great under Vogel, our defense has always carried us. So I am not sure how you can act like offense wasn't an issue even with Danny. I thought that was just common knowledge.
They are the same problems as last year. Did you not watch the Miami series or even the Chicago series the year before? When they finally started playing defense late in the series, we couldn't score. And we did nothing to correct it. We are coming with the same approach and talent level. The only difference is teams have a lot more tape and have played against Vogels scheme a few times. Not a recipe for growth, JMO.
Im not sure what you are arguing exactly.
Last edited by Taterhead; 11-15-2012 at 02:54 PM.
I remember that the offense looked this bad a lot of times last year and the Pacers had to play "hero ball" a lot to beat teams.
Even this year they went to "hero ball" by going to either West or Hill non stop, I think that if you pay attention to other teams OKC runs the same crapy offense than the Pacers but the difference is that they have two superstars to get them over the hill.
Which isn't what I said either.
Let me rephrase if it will help you.So again I ask, who's been arguing that Danny is a facilitator? That's not what people said, nor implying. Danny isn't a facilitator, he's a finisher.
Who expects Danny to facilitate?
Read that again Since86, I never said people were saying, I said people expect Danny to facilitate offense. That is what is called an opinion. Not sure what else to say.
Anyone who thinks he's going to come back and the offense will magically be fixed, is expecting him to "facilitate " the offense.
Facilitate means "to make easier", per Merriams.
Words have different meanings in different contexts. In the context of basketball, facilitate is more often used in terms of actually running the offense in general, or passing the ball, not just making the offense easier.
And all I was asking for is for some names that argued it. I've asked several times with no answer. I asked for names, because like I said, I think what other people have said and how you've taken it, are to different things.
If you're using the term facilitate to just mean Granger makes the offense easier to run, then yeah, he's a facilitator. Which is why the offense has bogged down. Without him on the court, defenses are left to lock in on clogging the middle making Roy and West ineffective as they normally are.
Last edited by Since86; 11-15-2012 at 03:43 PM.
Last edited by Taterhead; 11-15-2012 at 03:46 PM.
http://www.nba.com/sixers/playbook-h...gh-low-offensePlaybook: Hawes Facilitates High-low Offense
With center Andrew Bynum now serving as the Sixers' primary offensive target in the post, head coach Doug Collins envisions forward-center Spencer Hawes using his elite vision and passing ability to create opportunities for the former-Laker. In Los Angeles, Bynum played alongside Pau Gasol, whose style of play is very similar to that of Hawes.
It's more commonly used as a synonym with distribute/create.
We were just using two different usages of the word. Danny doesn't distribute or create for others.
But yeah, Danny is a facilitator in this offense because he spaces the floor. There's no room to operate on the inside, because the defense doesn't have to worry about the wings killing them. There's no threat on the floor to hurt teams. Danny won't fix every single problem of the offense, but he would fix a lot of it.
The entire system is built around having complimentary players who use different strengths to cover up their teammates weaknesses. Danny is a very important part of that machine.
How do you beat double teams? By knocking down shots by the open man. The Pacers cannot do it right now, so the double stays and causes havoc for the offensive post player.
Last edited by Since86; 11-15-2012 at 04:06 PM.
It's just hard for me to understand how a teams best scorer can go down, and people not think that it's going to have a pretty substantial negative effect on the teams offense.
Pacers are a low scoring team, so taking out an automatic 20pts every night puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the squad. They rely on the spacing that Danny creates through pure defensive focus. It's 20% of the offense just gone.
Last edited by Since86; 11-15-2012 at 04:13 PM.
We squeezed as much out of last year's team as possible. Great hustle. Motivated coach. No injuries. Every single component had to work to accomplish what we did. Pull out one key component and . . . Kerplunk!
Again, we DO miss Granger, a lot more than I thought we would when I heard he was out. I hoped Paul George would step up and fill his void as a shooter and provide us with more athleticism, making us a quicker team, opening up transition and providing us with more punch off the dribble. He might yet show that, but so far he's looked lost. I also hoped Lance would finally get his chance, and he has minutes wise, but he seems to be handcuffed out there by the coach.
I think we just were on two different pages here. I am not insulting Danny's importance to the team. For us to be the kind of team we were last year we need Danny's shooting, no doubt. But IMO for us to take that next step we gotta make a choice between DG and PG at the 3 spot.
It's not a bust if we don't reach the ECF. It's a bust if we don't try.
Certain longtime posters have said for several seasons that we have a systemic flaw in the offense, and they don't believe TPTB have made the big moves necessary to fix that, and that TPTB have not attempted to. Some even believe Bird left for that very reason.
I'm all for PG playing SF while DG is out but thats just my 2 cents & I sit on the couch....be nice to have a TRUE "shooting" guard. Lance had 3 shots last night in 30 minutes? Nobody is gonna respect that! More looks/shots from Lance?
Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.
"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."
Obviously hindsight is 20/20