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Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

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  • #46
    Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

    Originally posted by Since86 View Post
    Not only that but teams are just collapasing the inside daring the Pacers to beat them from outside, and they can't do it. If Danny was playing, and teams tried focusing squarely on clogging the middle, he'd drop 30 on them. That's what is missing, and that's why Danny is so important to the whole offensive flow.
    Yep, no one on the perimeter commands the respect Danny did. Everyone knows that PG got most of his points last year off fast breaks. No one fears him in the half court.


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    • #47
      Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

      Originally posted by Trophy View Post
      If this team were to at least give a damn, we would've won the majority of the games so far.
      I'm never sure where things like this come from. If they DIDN'T give a damn we wouldn't be talking about their body language showing they are down and defeated, we'd be complaining about them laughing and joking while they get their rear ends kicked.

      They clearly give a damn.
      BillS

      A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
      Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

        Originally posted by BillS View Post
        I'm never sure where things like this come from. If they DIDN'T give a damn we wouldn't be talking about their body language showing they are down and defeated, we'd be complaining about them laughing and joking while they get their rear ends kicked.

        They clearly give a damn.
        Eh, Roy's body language does suck.


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        • #49
          Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

          Originally posted by BillS View Post
          I'm never sure where things like this come from. If they DIDN'T give a damn we wouldn't be talking about their body language showing they are down and defeated, we'd be complaining about them laughing and joking while they get their rear ends kicked.

          They clearly give a damn.

          I don't think they did last night.
          Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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          • #50
            Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

            Originally posted by Since86 View Post
            Not only that but teams are just collapasing the inside daring the Pacers to beat them from outside, and they can't do it. If Danny was playing, and teams tried focusing squarely on clogging the middle, he'd drop 30 on them. That's what is missing, and that's why Danny is so important to the whole offensive flow.

            Who puts fear in the opposing team? George Hill certainly doesn't.
            George Hill isn't going to consistently drop 30. 12-18? Yes. Danny will drop 30 and talk trash while he does it lol. You're right, that's what's missing from this team. And that's why Danny's value is so high--to THIS team. His game is suited perfectly for the inside/out game that Vogel wants to play, and then his intensity/"swag" gets other guys going.

            The lack of confidence/intensity has been missing all season. I think that Danny brought a lot of that out of our team.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

              And as far as making adjustments. There isn't a whole lot you can do when your post players are missing the open shots they do get and your backcourt isn't getting any production from the outside to make helping defenders worry about getting burned.

              How can you make adjustments to get inside looks when the defense is having a pow-wow in the middle every time down the floor?

              The biggest adjustment the Pacers need to make is to start hitting some damn shots.
              Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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              • #52
                Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
                George Hill isn't going to consistently drop 30. 12-18? Yes. Danny will drop 30 and talk trash while he does it lol. You're right, that's what's missing from this team. And that's why Danny's value is so high--to THIS team. His game is suited perfectly for the inside/out game that Vogel wants to play, and then his intensity/"swag" gets other guys going.

                The lack of confidence/intensity has been missing all season. I think that Danny brought a lot of that out of our team.
                That's sort of what I'm saying too. I think a lot of people are taking "This team misses Danny" to mean "Danny is the best player EVA", no, not that at all. He just happened to be a very good fit for the Pacers. Which is why last year's team was so cool, they were the ultimate "games are not played on paper" or "on a stat sheet" team.


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                • #53
                  Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                  Originally posted by BillS View Post
                  I'm never sure where things like this come from. If they DIDN'T give a damn we wouldn't be talking about their body language showing they are down and defeated, we'd be complaining about them laughing and joking while they get their rear ends kicked.

                  They clearly give a damn.
                  I know they want to get this turned around mentally. Obviously no one's happy with this garbage, but at the same time, no one's looking like they want to improve. Things guys lived off of last season are what they aren't doing this season. No one is moving around offensively, no one's being aggressive. The team is simply giving away points that could've won us the majority of the games we've played.

                  I hope this mental frustration converts to improvement and desire on the court very soon because this team is better than this.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                    Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                    And as far as making adjustments. There isn't a whole lot you can do when your post players are missing the open shots they do get and your backcourt isn't getting any production from the outside to make helping defenders worry about getting burned.

                    How can you make adjustments to get inside looks when the defense is having a pow-wow in the middle every time down the floor?

                    The biggest adjustment the Pacers need to make is to start hitting some damn shots.
                    Actually, I think the biggest adjustment needed is to pick up the pace. They're playing at a much slower pace than last year's team and for some reason they seem to be getting slower and slower each game.

                    The team without Danny really needs to get into their offense quicker and give the defense less time to set up or go into a zone against them.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                      Originally posted by naptownmenace View Post
                      Actually, I think the biggest adjustment needed is to pick up the pace. They're playing at a much slower pace than last year's team and for some reason they seem to be getting slower and slower each game.

                      The team without Danny really needs to get into their offense quicker and give the defense less time to set up or go into a zone against them.
                      IF we did that, we'd almost have to change-up the lineups a bit. It may sound silly, but I'd almost put either Roy or West (ROY!!) on the bench, and have them run with the 2nd unit, while having Mahinmi play with the starters. Mahinmi can run the floor, and hit the open 17 ft J all day, so he'd work well with a high low offense. He doesn't need the ball offensively, and is pretty good defensively.

                      Lance, Paul and George would benefit from the faster tempo. (as would DJ, Green, and Tyler for that matter)

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                        The problem with the Pacers is pretty simple and has been the same over the last 6-7 years at least. Our guards are the worst group in the league of all the playoff teams. It's the main reason I have wanted to trade Granger for the last few years now. We have to get a guard who can create offense, and we need a good one. All of our guards outside of Lance have NO GAME off the dribble. George Hill, Paul George and DJ Augustin will all settle for the jumpshot if you give it up, and none of them are good enough shooters to be effective doing that on a consistent basis.

                        Danny Granger's weakness is creating offense. He needs a good group of guards as much as anyone else. Not saying he doesn't do things well and wouldn't be a plus if he could play, but he's not that big of a difference maker. If he's the reason our team can't beat the Toronto Raptors or Milwaukee Bucks, then how good are we anyways.

                        I think what this year is showing is that the team hsa hit it's peak as constructed. I don't doubt that they can get some things together and improve as the year goes on becoming a middle of the road tough playoff team, but the sky is not the limit with this group.

                        Roy Hibbert was not paid to score 20 PPG. He is not a #1 scoring option in the post, I have said it for years. But people criticize him like he his. He is our most important defensive player, and our defense isn't the problem, he is doing his job well. If you replaced him with Kaman you would see us become an average defensive team instantly. David West might as well be 6' on the defensive end, he can't protect the basket and paired with Kaman it would be ugly. He needs a group of guards that can command the attention of the defense so he can pick his spots.

                        Paul George is a very good all around SF. I have also been saying that for years. He is not and never will be a scorer because he clearly doesn't want to be. And he damn sure isn't a guard. The wing positions are NOT interchangeable despite the bs that people say on here all the time. A guard needs to be able to handle the ball, and he can't. He needs to be a finisher, not a facilitator.

                        David West is not, and has never been a BAMF. It's stupid to claim he is. He averaged 12-6 last year. You can be scared of his scowl and bald head all you want, but I promise you a really good PF in the NBA won't be. He is a good post scorer, but that's it. He isn't good at anything else. He can't rebound consistently, he can't defend the rim, he can't defend P&R. and when his shot ain't falling he as useless as Josh McRoberts on a bad day.

                        You can't out execute everyone all the time. It puts way too much stress on your defense to be incredible. You need that one guy who can beat great defense, and we just don't have it. We can either waste a few more years with all these ridiculous hopes, or we can be aggressive and go out and assemble a better, more versatile basketball team. As constructed we are limited and predictable. You saw it last year in the playoffs. Once we got Miamis attention, they completely outclassed us 3 games in a row without their best big man, point blank. And guess what, they are even better this year, the gap has widened furthur.

                        This team is still a long ways away and this year, they need to use David West's expiring contract to add more young pieces to the core of Hibbert, George, Hill and Stephenson. And next year they need to do the same with Danny Granger. Believe it if you want.
                        "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                          Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
                          The problem with the Pacers is pretty simple and has been the same over the last 6-7 years at least. Our guards are the worst group in the league of all the playoff teams. It's the main reason I have wanted to trade Granger for the last few years now. We have to get a guard who can create offense, and we need a good one. All of our guards outside of Lance have NO GAME off the dribble. George Hill, Paul George and DJ Augustin will all settle for the jumpshot if you give it up, and none of them are good enough shooters to be effective doing that on a consistent basis.

                          Danny Granger's weakness is creating offense. He needs a good group of guards as much as anyone else. Not saying he doesn't do things well and wouldn't be a plus if he could play, but he's not that big of a difference maker. If he's the reason our team can't beat the Toronto Raptors or Milwaukee Bucks, then how good are we anyways.

                          I think what this year is showing is that the team hsa hit it's peak as constructed. I don't doubt that they can get some things together and improve as the year goes on becoming a middle of the road tough playoff team, but the sky is not the limit with this group.

                          Roy Hibbert was not paid to score 20 PPG. He is not a #1 scoring option in the post, I have said it for years. But people criticize him like he his. He is our most important defensive player, and our defense isn't the problem, he is doing his job well. If you replaced him with Kaman you would see us become an average defensive team instantly. David West might as well be 6' on the defensive end, he can't protect the basket and paired with Kaman it would be ugly. He needs a group of guards that can command the attention of the defense so he can pick his spots.

                          Paul George is a very good all around SF. I have also been saying that for years. He is not and never will be a scorer because he clearly doesn't want to be. And he damn sure isn't a guard. The wing positions are NOT interchangeable despite the bs that people say on here all the time. A guard needs to be able to handle the ball, and he can't. He needs to be a finisher, not a facilitator.

                          David West is not, and has never been a BAMF. It's stupid to claim he is. He averaged 12-6 last year. You can be scared of his scowl and bald head all you want, but I promise you a really good PF in the NBA won't be. He is a good post scorer, but that's it. He isn't good at anything else. He can't rebound consistently, he can't defend the rim, he can't defend P&R. and when his shot ain't falling he as useless as Josh McRoberts on a bad day.

                          You can't out execute everyone all the time. It puts way too much stress on your defense to be incredible. You need that one guy who can beat great defense, and we just don't have it. We can either waste a few more years with all these ridiculous hopes, or we can be aggressive and go out and assemble a better, more versatile basketball team. As constructed we are limited and predictable. You saw it last year in the playoffs. Once we got Miamis attention, they completely outclassed us 3 games in a row without their best big man, point blank. And guess what, they are even better this year, the gap has widened furthur.

                          This team is still a long ways away and this year, they need to use David West's expiring contract to add more young pieces to the core of Hibbert, George, Hill and Stephenson. And next year they need to do the same with Danny Granger. Believe it if you want.
                          Hit the head on the nail with this one. I don't agree with trading Danny next year, but it may be a case SOMEWHAT similar to Peyton Manning and the Colts. You don't want to see your fave player leave, but it may be the best thing for the player and the franchise.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                            I don't disagree with anything you say Taterhead, though I do think Danny is very important to the how team is built. I absolutely agree that Hibbert, Hill, George and Stephenson are alright to stay and can work, but we need to find a good scoring guard somehow and we need a real athlete in the front court who has a mid range jumper.


                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                              I see what your saying vnzla, but i "kinda" disagree. Danny is good & would be a decent 2nd, great 3rd option on a contending team but he is VERY VALUABLE to the P's. It's very obvious right now. I'm not saying DG is on LB or KD's level or anything close to that but more of how much his value means to this "team".

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                                Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
                                This team is still a long ways away and this year, they need to use David West's expiring contract to add more young pieces to the core of Hibbert, George, Hill and Stephenson. And next year they need to do the same with Danny Granger. Believe it if you want.
                                If they continue to flounder and if Danny misses the entire season, they should just trade David West at the trade deadline and try to get a young player and/or a draft pick preferably from a team that owns a potential lottery team's pick. Maybe Oklahoma City would send up Perry Jones or Jeremy Lamb and one of Houston's draft picks for him.

                                I don't think they'll continue this slide so all of that is really a moot point.

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