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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

  1. #126
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I don't understand what your issue is here, are you really happy with how the team is performing? What's the magic number of games before you want to see changes? I didn't know there was a rule for that, please enlighten me. We're almost 1/8 of the way through the season, while not a huge amount, that's not exactly small either.

    I'll be more than happy if we suddenly rip of an 8 game winning streak, but I don't see it happening right now.
    I have zero issue with the team. I watch my Pacers almost every game, if I can't go, been doing so for 10 years, and I'll love 'em win or lose. My only issue is the Chicken Littles.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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  3. #127
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    I'm just going to have fun ripping on how crappy this team is until they get good again.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I have zero issue with the team. I watch my Pacers almost every game, if I can't go, been doing so for 10 years, and I'll love 'em win or lose. My only issue is the Chicken Littles.
    How is it chicken littles to say we are playing bad and we don't see the team getting better as it's currently set up? That is just as valid of an opinion as saying that the team is going to recover just fine. Saying stuff like "chicken little" or branding epople as "sunshiners" or "homers" does nothing to actually further discussion.

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  7. #129
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Because every one of you are making ridiculous claims (and I'm generalizing) but the overall tone of the forum the last week or so has been:

    - Fire Vogel
    - Trade PG and Hibbert
    - DC was a god, we f'd that up
    - There's no way we'll improve, we're gonna remain exactly as we are now.

    And it's all a buncha silliness. Everyone is freaking out, and it's waaaaaay to early to be freaking out. That is the definition of Chicken Little. The sky is still up there.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 11-14-2012 at 04:51 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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  9. #130
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Alright. I have hold off on making any knee jerk reactions and comment on them. Things will get better, but not seed 2 better. Or 3. Or 4. Maybe 6.

    They have to. There is no way this roster is worse than any of the ones that JOB had. NO WAY!!!!

    Offensively we have to hit shots eventually. We have to move the ball more. But if we do, we turn it over. We have to shot off screens more. We have to use the baseline to free up our shooters. We have to get the ball out of PG hands and have him a set shooter.

    We have to do something besides start Lance. The system is down. It needs something.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Because every one of you are making ridiculous claims (and I'm generalizing) but the overall tone of the forum the last week or so has been:

    - Fire Vogel
    - Trade PG and Hibbert
    - DC was a god, we f'd that up
    - There's no way we'll improve, we're gonna remain exactly as we are now.

    And it's all a buncha silliness.
    You're exaggerating all of the points that have been made.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  12. #132
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    You're exaggerating all of the points that have been made.
    Nooooo, really? I said I was generalizing, lol.

    But just for ***** and giggles, I present to you:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...ostgame-thread

    One thread, in which almost every one of those statements were actually said in one way or the other.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Kind of interesting that Austin Croshere made a comment that the Pacers seemed to play uninspired during halftime last night. And Brian Shaw confirmed they had to chew their collective @sses too.

    A 3 win team this early in the season needs a fire lit to motivate them? Heck yeah there is more going on here than just missing Danny.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Ok we are all chicken littles, and you are a brainless homer. Gee this is a fun game. What a great debate we are having. You are basically saying that our opinions are irrelevant because you believe we are overreacting, that is not a good place to have a real conversation.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 11-14-2012 at 04:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Because every one of you are making ridiculous claims (and I'm generalizing) but the overall tone of the forum the last week or so has been:

    - Fire Vogel
    - Trade PG and Hibbert
    - DC was a god, we f'd that up
    - There's no way we'll improve, we're gonna remain exactly as we are now.

    And it's all a buncha silliness. Everyone is freaking out, and it's waaaaaay to early to be freaking out. That is the definition of Chicken Little. The sky is still up there.
    I'm freaking out based on what I have seen. The sky is still up there, but it's cracking and showing definite signs of collapse. You would be naive to pretend not to see it, but acting like it's already fallen isn't the best course of action either.

    For the record, I don't want Vogel fired and don't blame this mess on him. That talk to me is silly.
    I wouldn't mind trading PG while his value is still high, because I just don't see him developing into the alpha dog people expect him to be. Too timid, no fire in his game, shows too many Rush-like symptoms for my liking.
    Roy will snap out of it, so I am not too worried there, although it is a blast to rip on him right now, because frankly, he deserves it.
    DC wasn't a god, but he is (and always has been) better than DJ Augustin. Trading him wasn't a huge problem--trading him and Dahntay for Stonehands Mahinmi--was a problem.
    We will improve, but likely not to the level of our preseason expectations, which is a major bummer.

  17. #136
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Ok we are all chicken littles, and you are a brainless homer. Gee this is a fun game. What a great debate we are having.
    If you want to pretend the sky is falling, I'll sit here all cozy in my "home" bein' a person who sits in a home.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    If you want to pretend the sky is falling, I'll sit here all cozy in my "home" bein' a person who sits in a home.
    I am not saying the sky is falling. I am saying that I'm not sure the sky is going to get any brighter that's for sure.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'm freaking out based on what I have seen. The sky is still up there, but it's cracking and showing definite signs of collapse. You would be naive to pretend not to see it, but acting like it's already fallen isn't the best course of action either.

    For the record, I don't want Vogel fired and don't blame this mess on him. That talk to me is silly.
    I wouldn't mind trading PG while his value is still high, because I just don't see him developing into the alpha dog people expect him to be. Too timid, no fire in his game, shows too many Rush-like symptoms for my liking.
    Roy will snap out of it, so I am not too worried there, although it is a blast to rip on him right now, because frankly, he deserves it.
    DC wasn't a god, but he is (and always has been) better than DJ Augustin. Trading him wasn't a huge problem--trading him and Dahntay for Stonehands Mahinmi--was a problem.
    We will improve, but likely not to the level of our preseason expectations, which is a major bummer.

    And THAT'S why many are reacting so negatively. For the first time in forever, this team had some realistic expectations going into the season and it seems like only Hill, West, Lance, and Tyler got the memo.

    Losing by a point here and a point there to some good to average teams is okay. Losing by a point here and a point there to the Bobcats and a depleted TOR team is a cause for concern, DG or not.

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  21. #139
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    cdash, you're gonna see, like everyone else, that all this over-reaction is exactly that. I've been through this on here about a bajillion times. Before the season opener, this forum largely thought we were set up real nice for this season. We had kept our good starters, and we overhauled our anemic bench. It took *eight* games to completely undo that. Who here finds it logical to completely make their mind up about a team that has 74 more to play?

    We haven't gotten off to the start everyone expected, and it's been Freak Out City. It's been --- 8 games. Eight. It's too early to say *anything* right now, except we havent been playing well. Even so --- we won 3. We didn't lose all 8. We were 2 points away from winning 4 more. We haven't played well and we were *still* in these games. That says something right there about this team. They need to do a few tweaks and the wins will start coming.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 11-14-2012 at 05:05 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    The sky doesn't have to be falling to realize there are problems that need to be fixed, and discussing possible solutions.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    cdash, you're gonna see, like everyone else, that all this over-reaction is exactly that. I've been through this on here about a bajillion times. Before the season opener, this forum largely thought we were set up real nice for this season. We had kept our good starters, and we overhauled our anemic bench. It took *eight* games to completely undo that. Who here finds it logical to completely make their mind up about a team that has 74 more to play?

    We haven't gotten off to the start everyone expected, and it's been Freak Out City. It's been --- 8 games. Eight. It's too early to say *anything* right now, except we havent been playing well.
    No, it's not too early say "anything" right now. In case you haven't been following the news in the NBA world, the Lakers said "something" about their coaching situation after 5 games. All we can do at this point is judge the team based on our preconceived notions and what we have seen from our team this season. That's it, and that's all we are doing. Are we pissed off about it? Damn right we are. We expected more from this team, we haven't seen it, and we haven't seen it getting any better--in fact, I'd argue that last night was the single worst performance of the season thus far, included the Charlotte debacle. We have reasons to be pessimistic--what reasons do you have for being optimisitc? What have you seen from this team this year to make you think they will turn it around?

    Edit: And don't act like you are the only one that has been around here and seen this board acting like this before--it's patronizing. We have all seen it. Sometimes justified, often times not.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quite frankly, I think we suck. Probably to the point where it's going to take some form of drastic measure to get it in their heads to do better. All I hear is this and that from David West after a game, but if the problem was so obvious, why isn't it fixed?

    I'm sorry kids, I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel, I don't see a big bottle of Elmer's Glue to fix the cracks in the sky. 8 games or 80, it doesn't matter. We don't do what we did last season and play like we have (without a lockout, with a full training camp) been and stink it up. These guys are soft. They talk, want to be on TV, change their twitter names and just go out and get paid.

    This team needs some discipline, and they aren't getting it.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Quite frankly, I think we suck. Probably to the point where it's going to take some form of drastic measure to get it in their heads to do better. All I hear is this and that from David West after a game, but if the problem was so obvious, why isn't it fixed?

    I'm sorry kids, I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel, I don't see a big bottle of Elmer's Glue to fix the cracks in the sky.

    This team needs some discipline, and they aren't getting it.
    Vogel's quotes are especially out of touch with reality. After every game..."We're gonna get rolling" in some way shape or form is all he has for us. That's pretty frustrating for me.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Vogel's quotes are especially out of touch with reality. After every game..."We're gonna get rolling" in some way shape or form is all he has for us. That's pretty frustrating for me.
    The only thing we're rolling is over.

    3-5 within the first 8 games against 7 teams that SHOULD have under-.500 records.

    Que Sweet Ms. Brown!


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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Vogel's quotes are especially out of touch with reality. After every game..."We're gonna get rolling" in some way shape or form is all he has for us. That's pretty frustrating for me.
    Still better than when he quotes movies like Galaxy Quest with the 'Never Give Up, Never Surrender' speech. I know Frank has spent a lot time watching film, but stealing from Galaxy Quest?
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    Still better than when he quotes movies like Galaxy Quest with the 'Never Give Up, Never Surrender' speech. I know Frank has spent a lot time watching film, but stealing from Galaxy Quest?
    Don't get me wrong, I love Frank's fire during close games. I think that is an awesome quality, galaxy quest or not, but I do not so much like the way he talks after games. I wish after games he was a little more realistic. JMO

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Something I thought I'd never say about Vogel and this team is that they're beginning to accept this garbage.

    I know Danny is out and all, but he's not LeBron. He didn't carry this team to the 5th best record last year and put on a strong fight in the playoffs all by himself.

    I've never seen a team with pretty much the same players who each played their hearts out a season ago and then some just completely fall apart. They are simply playing like they could care less. The offensive chemistry and desire to be a team is nonexistent.

    The fact that we could've been 7-1 if this team were to actually keep leads and simply give a damn all 48 minutes.

    Someone really needs to rip this team a new one. This team is lacking motivation and needs a fire lit under their asses.

    I'm doing my best to stay patient and remain optimistic with the season being just 8 games in, but it's infuriating.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    Something I thought I'd never say about Vogel and this team is that they're beginning to accept this garbage.

    I know Danny is out and all, but he's not LeBron. He didn't carry this team to the 5th best record last year and put on a strong fight in the playoffs all by himself.I've never seen a team with pretty much the same players who each played their hearts out a season ago and then some just completely fall apart. They are simply playing like they could care less. The offensive chemistry and desire to be a team is nonexistent.

    The fact that we could've been 7-1 if this team were to actually keep leads and simply give a damn all 48 minutes.

    Someone really needs to rip this team a new one. This team is lacking motivation and needs a fire lit under their asses.

    I'm doing my best to stay patient and remain optimistic with the season being just 8 games in, but it's infuriating.
    True but I now wonder how much of a big part of that was he?

    In reading Don Cassey's pre game statements he was asked what was different about preparing for Indiana without Danny Granger he said & I'm paraphrasing here that Indiana loses a lot of toughness when Danny is not there and they become easier to defend.

    I said that last year, I think the entire Smash Mouth persona of the team was really based on Danny Granger. He is tough as nails and fears no one. The problem is that he plays a position that there are two clearly more physical players (LeBron & Melo) but right after them I don't think there is a tougher small forward in the NBA. In fact I question if Melo really will take or make contact the way Danny does.

    If nothing else about this season I hope this finally makes fans who took him for granted all of these years appreciate what Danny has meant to this franchise.


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  38. #149
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    The sky doesn't have to be falling to realize there are problems that need to be fixed, and discussing possible solutions.
    My thoughts EXACTLY!

  39. #150
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    if the problem was so obvious, why isn't it fixed?

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