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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    You really think it is fair to compare the Pacers to the Lakers? I mean they are both in the NBA, they both have the color gold in their uniforms and their nicknames sounds alike - other than that, they have nothing in common

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    You really think it is fair to compare the Pacers to the Lakers? I mean they are both in the NBA, they both have the color gold in their uniforms and their nicknames sounds alike - other than that, they have nothing in common
    Sure they do. They both have 3-5 records, to start off with.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Jobs will be lost if Pacers play like crap and lose against the Bucks and Mavs.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Sure they do. They both have 3-5 records, to start off with.
    And neither team has played up to expectations.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I agree with this. Unless we are able to make a move that wouldn't affect the primary core and simply move some of the "end of the bench" Players....I don't want to make a move...just to make a move out of sheer panic.

    Losing sucks....but let's not pretend that throwing 4 new Players into the rotation isn't going to make a difference to the Team and that losing a key Player in the Starting Lineup ( which affects the rotation SIGNIFICANTLY in the 1st and 2nd unit ). Now, I hate that Hibbert is doing his best impression of Andres Biedrins and that IMHO PG is not adjusting well to his new role on the Team as the 2nd/3rd scorer on the offensive end.....but these are issues....just like the addition of DJ/Mahinmi/Green and ( to a certain extent ) Lance to the rotation....should HOPEFULLY be resolved over time.

    I don't think anybody is suggesting bringing in an entirely new team, as much as people are suggesting moving a piece or two for a piece or two that brings us what we need. Yes when you trade one piece for another, you're opening a new hole within your team BUT even when DG was healthy, we've been looking to add another perimeter offensive threat. Now with Granger out, our offensive woes are magnified.

    We've had these types of issues for about as long as I can remember and last year was the year where we seemed to finally break through. Now just a few months later, we're having the same discussions all over again, just about a new slew of players. No we don't need to blow it up, but I think a lot of ppl feel like something needs to be done before we completely un-do what we did last season in the playoffs. (Think GS warriors following that cinderella playoff run that bottomed out the next season)

    IDK if its a trade, coaching change, lineup change, or whatever else, the fact that we've been a pretty miserable offensive team since game 3 against the Heat shows me that this is a trend that is NOT likely to go away via "growth" from within, nor the return of DG.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You think this team is a "continuation?" Having three different starters in for your missing best player. 4 brand spanking new bench players, out of 5.

    The Pacers roster has 14 players on it, and out of that 14 only 4 played significant minutes last year....


    The whole "continuation" angle was WITH Danny. That's the whole point of pointing out that he's not there.
    The starting unit minus Danny is a continuation, teams that have been playing together for a while are not supposed to look like crap, yes we have some new players but again I don't see how the new players are affecting Roy and his ability to contribute, how many of us wanted Vogel to keep Tyler in instead of Roy last night? are the new players affecting Roy and the team in general? I don't think so.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The starting unit minus Danny is a continuation, teams that have been playing together for a while are not supposed to look like crap, yes we have some new players but again I don't see how the new players are affecting Roy and his ability to contribute, how many of us wanted Vogel to keep Tyler in instead of Roy last night? are the new players affecting Roy and the team in general? I don't think so.
    You COULD add PG to that statement as well. He hasn't played particularly well offensively either since BEFORE the playoffs last year.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Jobs will be lost if Pacers play like crap and lose against the Bucks and Mavs.
    TPTB don't operate that way. We aren't the Lakers.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  13. #84
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    If this team was the exact same team as last year and we started out 3-5, I would be able to swallow all the "just wait they will figure it out" arguments, but the fact is this is a very new team than last year's team. The bench is 100% different and our best all around player isn't playing, I don't believe this is a "lull" I just think this is a team that has flaws offensively that are very, very bad. If we can start getting to the line more our D can probably get us a .500 record, but that's about it.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    What?

    If this years team was the same exact team, you'd believe that it was just a lull, but because this team is a new team, you think it means they're just this bad? That's like the exact opposite of how I look at it.

    If this team was the same team from last year, and stumbled out of the gate, I'd be questioning what's going on. But the fact that it's a completely brand new bench, and missing their best player, gives me pause.



    So do people really think that the Roy and DWest that we've seen are the actual Roy and David? They've never shot this badly, even during their rookie seasons. It's pretty obvious, to me atleast, that the players are playing badly as opposed to playing average. The difference is night and day between the two. This Pacers team shouldn't be 3-5. They've played just downright awful and 4 of their losses is by a combined 8pts. Roy and West just shoot their career average and all those 4 losses are probably wins, and we're talking about how gutsy this team is for finding ways to win without their best player. 8pts the difference between thinking this season is already over and thinking they're making things happen. 8 points.
    Last edited by Since86; 11-14-2012 at 03:13 PM.

  15. #86
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    And you can't see that having our best player and an almost completely new bench doesn't require a lil adjustment and transition period?
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    And you can't see that having our best player and an almost completely new bench doesn't require a lil adjustment and transition period?
    Roy is supposed to be your best player. That's what you're paying him $60 million for.

    Granger is the best scorer on the team, yes, but he didn't suddenly become a max player when he got hurt.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    They both make $13mill this year, I don't see Hibbert as "clearly" our best player. I see him and Danny as 1a and 1b.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    And you can't see that having our best player and an almost completely new bench doesn't require a lil adjustment and transition period?
    I'll just ignore the terrible body language from the dude making 14 million this year and I'll just ignore the fact that really the only "adjustment" we've seen so far is swapping around who starts at the two guard.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    They both make $13mill this year, I don't see Hibbert as "clearly" our best player. I see him and Danny as 1a and 1b.
    Do you think Danny's body language would be this bad if he didn't have Roy?

    Roy is the highest paid player on the team and other than doing a gangnam style video he doesn't really act like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    They both make $13mill this year, I don't see Hibbert as "clearly" our best player. I see him and Danny as 1a and 1b.
    Then you're essentially throwing in the towel on Roy. He can't be just another good guy on the team after signing that deal.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    What terrible body language are you seeing? Looks like regular ol Roy to me.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Then you're essentially giving up on Roy. He can't be just another good guy on the team after signing that deal.
    I'm not giving up on him. Where do you get this logic? I said we lost our best player. You can't argue that Danny is at least 1a or 1b on this team.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    What terrible body language are you seeing? Looks like regular ol Roy to me.
    Dude wouldn't even get in the huddle last night at the end of the game. Just kind of stood there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I'm not giving up on him. Where do you get this logic? I said we lost our best player. You can't argue that Danny is at least 1a or 1b on this team.
    The logic is the only reasoning behind matching portlands offer was that he was Indiana's franchise guy they could not do without. Now all of a sudden they're 3-5 without granger and Roy is just a passenger on the train?

    Last year you could say that. Now it's his team. Roy signed up for this when he took the money.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    And?
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I'll just ignore the terrible body language from the dude making 14 million this year and I'll just ignore the fact that really the only "adjustment" we've seen so far is swapping around who starts at the two guard.
    What adjustments do you make when your post player is just missing shots?

    EDIT: Read that wrong. Nevermind.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    The logic is the only reasoning behind matching portlands offer was that he was Indiana's franchise guy they could not do without. Now all of a sudden they're 3-5 without granger and Roy is just a passenger on the train?
    Yea, Kstat, that's exactly what I said. By saying that Danny Granger is our best player, I basically said Roy is a passenger on a train.

    Wtf are you talking about.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    And?
    We were down by 2-4 points the last minute or so, and every timeout Roy just stood there. No passion. No fire. I'm sorry but that is not same 'ol Roy. That is senior year at Georgetown Roy maybe, but that is not the guy we watched last year.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    What terrible body language are you seeing? Looks like regular ol Roy to me.
    Look at him every time he misses one of those bunnies, clapping his hands in frustration, grabbing his head, committing stupid/frustration fouls like the one he had yesterday on Valanciunas. Then when he went to the bench he had his head/face in his hands, etc. His body language is NOT positive right now.

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