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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

  1. #151
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    No, it's not too early say "anything" right now. In case you haven't been following the news in the NBA world, the Lakers said "something" about their coaching situation after 5 games.
    Which was a knee-jerk reaction. And it's the Lakers. They're a sideshow more often than nought.

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    All we can do at this point is judge the team based on our preconceived notions and what we have seen from our team this season. That's it, and that's all we are doing. Are we pissed off about it? Damn right we are. We expected more from this team, we haven't seen it, and we haven't seen it getting any better--in fact, I'd argue that last night was the single worst performance of the season thus far, included the Charlotte debacle.
    Pissing and moaning about it is one thing; to make outlandish "fire vogel", "this team was never good, we've been lucky", "trade hibbert", "trade PG", "bring back DC" claims isn't suggesting anything rational or logical.

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    We have reasons to be pessimistic--what reasons do you have for being optimisitc? What have you seen from this team this year to make you think they will turn it around?
    Be pessimistic; don't act like the sky is falling. Most people have absolutely given up hope on the playoffs --- already.

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Edit: And don't act like you are the only one that has been around here and seen this board acting like this before--it's patronizing. We have all seen it. Sometimes justified, often times not.
    If we've all seen this before --- then why are we engaging in it again? Especially, as you just admitted, it's often not justified, and "sometimes" would be a generous adjective. THis is probly why I'm going at it like I am, because I know most of you should know better than this.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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  3. #152
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    True but I now wonder how much of a big part of that was he?

    In reading Don Cassey's pre game statements he was asked what was different about preparing for Indiana without Danny Granger he said & I'm paraphrasing here that Indiana loses a lot of toughness when Danny is not there and they become easier to defend.

    I said that last year, I think the entire Smash Mouth persona of the team was really based on Danny Granger. He is tough as nails and fears no one. The problem is that he plays a position that there are two clearly more physical players (LeBron & Melo) but right after them I don't think there is a tougher small forward in the NBA. In fact I question if Melo really will take or make contact the way Danny does.

    If nothing else about this season I hope this finally makes fans who took him for granted all of these years appreciate what Danny has meant to this franchise.
    I definitely agree with you on Danny and his importance. Of course without him, we're not contending.

    With that said, this is still a very good team that should be winning and maintaining a comfortable spot in the East, but thus far, they're showing they don't care.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    I definitely agree with you on Danny and his importance. Of course without him, we're not contending.

    With that said, this is still a very good team that should still be winning and maintaining a comfortable spot in the East, but thus far, they're showing they don't care.
    Apparently not.....

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    The Lakers are a sideshow? Man, I wish I could get some of those sideshow titles.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    True but I now wonder how much of a big part of that was he?
    A big part but not as big as you think.

    In reading Don Cassey's pre game statements he was asked what was different about preparing for Indiana without Danny Granger he said & I'm paraphrasing here that Indiana loses a lot of toughness when Danny is not there and they become easier to defend.
    Of course, I mean who would they rather defend Danny Granger or Young/Green? I bet anybody is going to choose Young/Green that does not mean Danny is some kind of superstar, I bet if Paul George,West or Hibbert are hurt instead they would say the same thing.


    I said that last year, I think the entire Smash Mouth persona of the team was really based on Danny Granger. He is tough as nails and fears no one. The problem is that he plays a position that there are two clearly more physical players (LeBron & Melo) but right after them I don't think there is a tougher small forward in the NBA. In fact I question if Melo really will take or make contact the way Danny does.
    No SF in the NBA is tougher than Lebron or Melo, yes Danny is tough but if you compare him to Lebron/Melo he is not that tough, Deng,Rudy and Wallace are pretty tough too.

    If nothing else about this season I hope this finally makes fans who took him for granted all of these years appreciate what Danny has meant to this franchise.
    Yes I appreciate what he brings to the team I just don't overrated him, hell I was even getting on people when they were telling us that Green was going to replace Danny just fine.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 11-14-2012 at 07:10 PM.

  9. #156
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I don't think anybody is suggesting bringing in an entirely new team, as much as people are suggesting moving a piece or two for a piece or two that brings us what we need. Yes when you trade one piece for another, you're opening a new hole within your team BUT even when DG was healthy, we've been looking to add another perimeter offensive threat. Now with Granger out, our offensive woes are magnified.

    We've had these types of issues for about as long as I can remember and last year was the year where we seemed to finally break through. Now just a few months later, we're having the same discussions all over again, just about a new slew of players. No we don't need to blow it up, but I think a lot of ppl feel like something needs to be done before we completely un-do what we did last season in the playoffs. (Think GS warriors following that cinderella playoff run that bottomed out the next season)

    IDK if its a trade, coaching change, lineup change, or whatever else, the fact that we've been a pretty miserable offensive team since game 3 against the Heat shows me that this is a trend that is NOT likely to go away via "growth" from within, nor the return of DG.
    We can agree to disagree.

    The board is pretty much split between "make some type of change before it's too late" and "let the change/growth come from within" camps.

    I hate that the trend that our bench scoring/defense sucks since Game 3....but keep in mind....there has been a SIGNIFICANT change to the lineup......we've lost Granger for 3-4 months and we have replaced the bench ( minus Hansbrough ) with new Players and are utilizing a Player that hasn't been used before this season ( Lance ). Add in that Hibbert is sucking it up.....I am not surprised that we are doing terribly. It's not like we are playing with the same 8 to 9 Players from last season and we are getting different results.

    Why continue to rearrange the deck-chairs on the Titanic when we have to ( at some point ) settle for what we have and simply let the lineup mature and get used to each other?

    Even if we were to go down the path of "trading anyone outside of the Starting 5" route....what can we get for the remaining bench Players? Not much....at worst..I could see it as a lateral move. IMHO....I don't want to make a panic move ( that will likely cost us something ) cuz the Team is doing terribly now considering the above concerns and changes to the Team.
    Last edited by CableKC; 11-14-2012 at 07:27 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  11. #157
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Not picking on Roy, just pointing out that we would be 7 and 1 if roy just had an average game, every game for the last 8. We still wouldn't look great, but we would be 7 and 1. So come on Roy have just an average game. Not a great game just average. While were at it maybe someone else could also play a decent game, then we would have a blow out.
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    -- Frank Vogel.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Not going to worry yet. Once we lose to a team badly twice I will start to worry. We should get tape on teams and be able to make adjustments. Right now they are trying to figure things out as a group. Lance and Hansbrough look like our best all around players in my book up to this point. The rest of the team should catch up and we will be okay. Hopefully it starts tonight. Lance should end games, not Green.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Which was a knee-jerk reaction. And it's the Lakers. They're a sideshow more often than nought.
    Don't really know how to attack this, so I'll just let it speak for itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Pissing and moaning about it is one thing; to make outlandish "fire vogel", "this team was never good, we've been lucky", "trade hibbert", "trade PG", "bring back DC" claims isn't suggesting anything rational or logical.
    For the record, I never said anything about firing Vogel, that the team was never good but lucky, or really anything else you said. I have mentioned about selling high on Paul George, but there is logic behind that. It's not realistic and I know there is a 0% chance of it actually happening, but I am worried he will never become what we need him to become.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Be pessimistic; don't act like the sky is falling. Most people have absolutely given up hope on the playoffs --- already.
    Really? Most people have given up hopes on the playoffs? I don't believe that and I suspect you don't either. People may be jumping ship on having home court advantage in the first round or winning the Central Division, but I haven't seen where "most" people have given up on hopes for the playoffs yet.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    If we've all seen this before --- then why are we engaging in it again? Especially, as you just admitted, it's often not justified, and "sometimes" would be a generous adjective. THis is probly why I'm going at it like I am, because I know most of you should know better than this.
    Why are you even engaging in it at all if you have seen it so many times and know how it is going to play out? You and I both know the backlash that people such as yourself often get in times like these (more often than not in the past I have taken the side you currently occupy). You know it isn't going to help, so what's the point? People have their views, you aren't going to change them.

    I'm still waiting for some actual basketball reasons from you that makes you so confident this team will turn things around.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    It is hard to believe that we have shot as badly as we have the last couple of games! It's equally hard to believe that we have come close to winning after shooting like that! I'm sure it will change. Go Pacers, Beat the BUCKS!!!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Don't really know how to attack this, so I'll just let it speak for itself.



    For the record, I never said anything about firing Vogel, that the team was never good but lucky, or really anything else you said. I have mentioned about selling high on Paul George, but there is logic behind that. It's not realistic and I know there is a 0% chance of it actually happening, but I am worried he will never become what we need him to become.





    Really? Most people have given up hopes on the playoffs? I don't believe that and I suspect you don't either. People may be jumping ship on having home court advantage in the first round or winning the Central Division, but I haven't seen where "most" people have given up on hopes for the playoffs yet.





    Why are you even engaging in it at all if you have seen it so many times and know how it is going to play out? You and I both know the backlash that people such as yourself often get in times like these (more often than not in the past I have taken the side you currently occupy). You know it isn't going to help, so what's the point? People have their views, you aren't going to change them.

    I'm still waiting for some actual basketball reasons from you that makes you so confident this team will turn things around.
    He never has reasons for his views. He is a fan and he just has them and that is good enough for him.....

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Anyone know much about Roy's offseason routine (Area 55ers)? From his Twitter feed, all I know is that he did a bunch of MMA. I didn't read anything about him working on his post game or shot... Not to say that he didn't, I just wonder if he's focused so much on his body that other areas were a bit neglected. Especially since he is or at least should be stronger in the upper body, I wonder if that may be affecting his shot a bit.

    Once that seed of doubt got into his head... Well then we get no confidence Roy again.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by colts19 View Post
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    Not picking on Roy, just pointing out that we would be 7 and 1 if roy just had an average game, every game for the last 8. We still wouldn't look great, but we would be 7 and 1. So come on Roy have just an average game. Not a great game just average. While were at it maybe someone else could also play a decent game, then we would have a blow out.
    Given that we have lost 4 games by less than 4 points.....it's pure speculation on our parts.......but if Hibbert was just averaging the same # of ppg as he was last year ( 12ppg instead of 8ppg )....the Pacers COULD be 6-2 instead of 3-5.

    If Hibbert was able to step up and we could run the offense through him like before......would we be doing as bad?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by IndySDExport View Post
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    Anyone know much about Roy's offseason routine (Area 55ers)? From his Twitter feed, all I know is that he did a bunch of MMA. I didn't read anything about him working on his post game or shot... Not to say that he didn't, I just wonder if he's focused so much on his body that other areas were a bit neglected. Especially since he is or at least should be stronger in the upper body, I wonder if that may be affecting his shot a bit.

    Once that seed of doubt got into his head... Well then we get no confidence Roy again.
    His confidence does shape how well he plays....but when it comes to Roy specifically, I really think that there is something else going on with him.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    At least it was easy to ignore the game and concentrate on studying. Have a test today. Not much to say about the game:-(

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyMac View Post
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    It is hard to believe that we have shot as badly as we have the last couple of games! It's equally hard to believe that we have come close to winning after shooting like that! I'm sure it will change. Go Pacers, Beat the BUCKS!!!
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