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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    I am at a complete and total loss.

    I have no idea how to fix this and I don’t know if we even have the people in place to fix this.

    I just know that this is an absolute disaster and any hopes of real post season success are going further and further away from us as we continue to lose to cupcake teams that the league so graciously gave us to start our season.

    I mean in all honesty we have an ideal beginning season schedule, sure there are a lot of road games but a lot of them are against teams who either did not make the playoffs last year or were very low seeds with a few contenders sprinkled in. Giving us another massive home stand to end the season and maybe secure home court advantage, right now that is the absolute farthest thing from my mind. I think I’ll just be happy to make the playoffs at this point in time and really can no longer concern myself with playoff positioning.

    I think that is my biggest problem this year, it’s not that we are playing any worse than in years past I mean for the love of God I had to sit through the O’Brien years. But in all honesty I came into the season actually thinking this year was going to be something different. Not the normal different that I hope for every year but the real honest difference that comes with actually being one of the best teams in the league.

    I mean if I’m honest I will admit that once Danny went down with injury I figured that everybody else would step up, that our depth would show brighter than it ever had and frankly I thought that Paul George would develop into option A as a scorer leaving me with the very unenviable task of having to defend Danny against all of Paul’s fans who would want him moved because Paul was doing so well.

    That has all collapsed.

    In fact as I type this I am listening to NBAtv in the background & tonight Ernie Johnson is in studio as host and he just called Danny Granger a superstar. Yes you read that right he called him a SUPERSTAR. I didn’t even believe it myself so I just went back & rewound it to make sure I heard him right.

    I find this so frustrating because in the pre-season preview NBAtv had nothing good to say about Danny.

    I digress.

    I’ll quote General Beringer from War Games: I’d **** on a spark plug if I thought it would do any good.

    That’s where I am right now, I have no idea.

    Is it Frank? He needs to accept a lot of the blame & maybe he needs the vast majority of the blame, I don’t know.

    His sets are predictable and frankly every team in the league knows them. Tonight Calderon was turning around on defense showing the Raptors what play the Pacers were running by hand signal. In other words whatever Frank held up Jose made sure that his team mates saw it.

    But as much as I think Frank deserves blame here, and believe me I’m not giving him a break, I just don’t know how much of this is all on him.

    I mean honest to God Roy Hibbert is now missing 3-5’ bunny hook shots that are just rolling out of the rim. These were plays called specifically to get Roy an open look, which he got, but then just missed the shot. Frank also has the disability of not having anyone on the roster who can just flat out square up and shoot the ball.

    Think about this Calderon changed the game in the first quarter and how did he do it? It wasn’t wizardry or deadeye long distance shooting. Simply put he just squared up and started hitting 13-15’ jump shots. Now the argument can be made that Frank doesn’t design plays to get those types of looks but then the counter argument to that would be even if he did who is going to hit that shot? I have no idea, sometimes David West can but the past couple of games he has not been a real threat from the field.

    I mean collectively the team shot 32% from the field. Some of that was on the coach for the type of shots but some of that is on the team for missing wide open shots and taking poor off balance shots as well (some of that is the fault of Frank I’ll grant you).

    I wanted the win at the end of the day, because like I said for whatever reason I haven’t been able to give up the ghost on playoff positioning, but frankly we didn’t deserve to win.

    I can’t tell you how disgusting it is to feel that the team was out hustled by a team that played a triple overtime the night before half the country away. By the end of the 4th quarter the Raptors were beyond running on vapors. It was a sad pathetic way to spend the night to be honest with you.

    Also does anyone have any idea why Kevin Pritchard is out watching College Basketball instead of watching the Pacers and trying to figure out what is wrong with our team? Don't we have college scouts anymore or did we let them go and Pritchard has to do that as well?

    I’m just doing grades tonight & as you can imagine they won’t be pretty. Also as a reminder to people game grades are based on the game played that does not mean the player can not get a lower or higher grade in another game.

    David West: D

    Just didn’t produce. Played nearly 40 min and came away with 11 points & 6 rebounds. No Bargnani didn’t light him up either but unlike the first game where he saved us tonight he just could not hit shots. Also side note, on that last possession where he was taken out he was limping and wincing coming to the bench.

    Paul George: D+

    Again I’m just going on tonight’s game if I went on expectations I’m sorry it would be an F but I’ll hold that go with the D+. The guy just has no idea how to drive to the basket and has almost no ability to dribble in traffic. His defense is outstanding and his rebounding is solid but right now we need a true elite level scorer from the wing position.

    Roy Hibbert: F

    I tweeted at half time that when Roy walked on the floor from the locker room he looked totally out of it and disengaged. In other words I wonder if Frank didn’t call up Jim on the phone to give Roy a half time talk. I told Diamond Dave that there was just no way that he was going to be of any functional use. Sorry guys this is a real problem because we are in a full fledged mental melt down by the big man. I’m not sure how to snap him out of it but sadly our fortunes are tied to him.

    Lance Stephenson: C+

    Dude plays with fire and purpose. He may play out of control a lot but even that is much less than it used to be. However give me some of that edge and fire over cool nonchalant demeanor any day of the week. No he didn’t give us enough but for what is expected of him this was a decent game.

    George Hill: C+

    Shot putrid from the field but at the end of the day this guy does not shy away from big moments and really is about the only player on our team (other than maybe Lance) who can get his own shot. Now understand he had some poor passing early in the game but if it wasn’t for him we would have probably not outscored the Raptors in the final quarter (not that it really mattered).

    Tyler Hansbrough: B

    You wouldn’t think it by looking at his stats but I’m telling you he was a difference maker on the floor. He tapped a lot of balls and he drew a couple of charges & poked balls loose. Not all of that shows up as a favorable stat for him but he really upped the energy level out there as well. So far this season he has been a pleasant surprise.

    Gerald Green: D



    Ian Mahinmi: C-

    Just as a reminder we are paying him 2 million more a year than what Greg Stiemsma is making with the Wolves. I bring that up because I wanted Greg and they are both producing the same results. Its obvious Frank doesn’t trust him very much either with is really bad considering Roy is having a nervous breakdown.

    D.J. Augustin: C-

    He hit a shot, he hit a free throw, and these are massive up grades over what he has done in the past. Other than that though once again Frank shows almost zero faith in him letting him play a whopping 11 min on the floor.


    You guys tell me what's wrong.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Well it speaks volumes about this season that I just got done visiting nbadraft.net. If you'd ask me in September who was coming out in this upcoming draft class I'd have said, "Who cares? Pacers are gonna be drafting 24-30 so you just take best available."

    Well that is no longer the case. Barring a medical miracle that Danny wakes up tomorrow and has young Theo Ratliff legs, this season is down the drain. I have zero point zero faith in Paul George. Roy will struggle all year due to our lack of perimeter threats and his mental ineptitude. Oh and DJ Augustine, to quote another brilliant poster, "sucks more *** than a Tijuana hooker."

    It is the O'brien era all over again where all we do all season is wait until some massive upheavel of the team and staff happens to hopefully usher in a new era.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Is it possible that there is some loss in Team Chemistry with the significant change in lineups that we are seeing here?

    There are 2 changes that we are talking about here.

    1 ) We have at most...a 9-10 man rotation where 4 to 5 of them are new to the roster. How much chemistry and familiarity does DJ, Green and Mahinmi have with each other? If anything, it's been said that Lance and Hansbrough have the most familiarity with each other which has resulted in some trust and good plays.
    2 ) The Starting lineup's chemistry is slightly altered with Granger out and adding into the mix some combination of Green, Lance and Young.

    I'm not saying that there isn't anything wrong.....clearly something is affecting Hibbert's game and PG is now being forced to be "The Man" ( which is something that I do not think he will ever be suited to be ) with Granger out....but I'm suggesting that what we are seeing may simply be a by-product of the changes to our lineup ( due to Granger being out ) and the lack of familiarity between the Players and rotations that we are being forced to use.

    This doesn't mean that I think that adding Granger back into the mix will fix EVERYTHING.....it will fix some of the issues...but I'm saying that I think that the 2nd unit and lack of production is one of the reasons why we aren't doing too well ( the main reason is because Hibbert is doing his best impression of Andres Biedrins instead of the Hibbert that showed us what he was made of in the Playoffs ).
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    If you're thinking about leadership and rallying points, how many players do we have left that rallied around the idea that JOB is gone and Vogel isn't JOB?

    Hibbert, Paul George, Hans.... Obviously Granger is out so he can't count for much.
    Do we count Lance?

    I don't know how much difference it makes but obviously it was a rallying point for the team as a whole to want to play better and do better once JOB was gone. With all the turnover maybe that collective rallying point is gone?

    DC would've had a chip on his shoulder for sure.

    And remember the rumors/leaks that the Pacers weren't going to match Portland and re-sign Roy? Ever wonder if maybe that was the fracture in the FO and Bird wasn't going to pay Roy that kind of money? Meanwhile, Loyal Simon and "Tell me the max so I can write the check" Donnie Walsh might've had other plans?

    I dunno... I'm probably reaching...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    I'm still trying to wrap my head around how the Raptors could hit only one shot in the forth quarter, and we still couldn't come away with the W.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    And remember the rumors/leaks that the Pacers weren't going to match Portland and re-sign Roy? Ever wonder if maybe that was the fracture in the FO and Bird wasn't going to pay Roy that kind of money? Meanwhile, Loyal Simon and "Tell me the max so I can write the check" Donnie Walsh might've had other plans?

    I dunno... I'm probably reaching...
    I wondered that when Bird stepped down.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Free Lance.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Paul George: ................. His defense is outstanding.
    I'm going to disagree with this and then pile on.

    More than once last nite, he would be completely lost on D, looking around for whomever he was supposed to be guarding and when that guy scored on an easy hoop, he slumped his shoulders and mentally took himself out of the next minute or 2 of the game. Again, not an isolated incident.

    And the guy simply has to have the lowest basketball IQ / instincts / whatever you want to call it. On defense, it's 4 guys and George. On offense, it's 4 guys and George. Maybe he should pursue a career in video game playing or go on a playground dunking tour. All the talk of the work he did in the off-season is apparently just that - talk. He looks more lost on the court than he did his rookie year.

    Roy ?? It's the Croshere syndrome. He's got the big contract now and it's gone to his head. He's either relaxed now that he's cashed in or is trying to live up to the $$.

    What a waste of an evening going to watch that disaster.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    I really miss Danny Granger--yes, we all do. But I don't miss Danny Granger based on the faulty premise that he is top level talent. I miss Danny Granger because his very presence would mean less playing time for the subpar players like Green and Young who should not be seeing more than 5 to 10 minutes of playing time a night on any respectable playoff team. That's a big part of our problem right there. Getting Granger back in time for the postseason push will by default solve a lot of our problems, even if he won't be back at peak performance.

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    More than once last nite, he would be completely lost on D, looking around for whomever he was supposed to be guarding and when that guy scored on an easy hoop, he slumped his shoulders and mentally took himself out of the next minute or 2 of the game. Again, not an isolated incident.
    I noticed that a couple of times as well.

    He can be a good on the ball defender, by I wouldn't call him McKeyesque with his savvy and awareness.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Great point about no legit, consistent jump shooting threats. I complained about this last year. You have to have a couple guys who are dead eye shooters wherever on the floor. And, no, I don't even consider Granger that. Yes, he can shoot the three, but it's more a volume, streak shooting. George, thus far, is in the same category, IMO.

    I suspect they thought Green & DJ would add a little here, but again, I don't see true shooting specialists. I see streak shooters. Red hot if they get it going, but equally possible they're ice cold. And West, I must admit, has underwhelmed me even going back some to last season given his rep as automatic from mid-range.

    You've got to have guys that can put it in the hoop. In the absence of shooters to help keep the interior more open for post ups and drives, this is what we get. Well, that and an offensive scheme that doesn't seem to help the issue either.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    Great point about no legit, consistent jump shooting threats. I complained about this last year. You have to have a couple guys who are dead eye shooters wherever on the floor. And, no, I don't even consider Granger that. Yes, he can shoot the three, but it's more a volume, streak shooting. George, thus far, is in the same category, IMO.

    I suspect they thought Green & DJ would add a little here, but again, I don't see true shooting specialists. I see streak shooters. Red hot if they get it going, but equally possible they're ice cold. And West, I must admit, has underwhelmed me even going back some to last season given his rep as automatic from mid-range.

    You've got to have guys that can put it in the hoop. In the absence of shooters to help keep the interior more open for post ups and drives, this is what we get. Well, that and an offensive scheme that doesn't seem to help the issue either.
    There are a few shooters that are free agents in the offseason Kyle Korver, Anthony Morrow etc it would be wise to go after one
    Counting down the days untill DJ Augustin's contract expires.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Well, first, management are looking like idiots for their signings this offseason.

    However, I put this 95% on the coach. He simply does not have these guys prepared. The offense is a pitiful thing. If it wasn't for the Raptors legs going out in the second half, it would have been a blow out. This game made our defense look better than it really is, and yes, I think the defense is an absolute mirage. It simply isn't nearly as good as stats would suggest. I was at the Atlanta game. Guys were constantly open cause guys are constantly watching the ball and not their man. Atlanta, much like the Pacers, just couldn't hit those wide open looks. That 3OT game caught up with the Raptors and they had one of the worst quarters in the history of the game. That was not due to our amazing defense, I can tell you that. Raptors were just worn out. And the Pacers still lost!

    How did Lance disappear after the 1st quarter. He scored 5 quick points. He's been shooting a high %. How does Vogel not try to get Lance more involved? I thought you were supposed to go with the hot hand. Instead, the guys taking the most shots more often than not lately are shooting horrible %s.

    Free Lance. Free Plumlee!

    I really do like Vogel and I truly believe everyone on this board does too. He's a very likeable guy & he's a player's coach. But he simply doesn't know how to coach yet. He doesn't know the Xs & Os that is needed to win. He doesn't know how to get these guys prepared. He can't figure out how to defend screens/picks. He can't get our own players to set good screens/picks.

    Something has to give. For me, it is crystal clear that Vogel simply isn't ready as a head coach yet.

    And I don't even think Shaw is the guy. What's his story? What is he contributing in all this? Is he just watching Frank sink the ship? At this point, I can only think he's contributing to this mess, so I'd have to say he isn't ideal to take over. I'd love Sloan or SVG. I love a defensive minded team, but I simply cannot continue to watch that train wreck of an offense.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    I could see Walsh looking to make some changes. Even if Granger comes back, there is still a high chance of his knee acting up again.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    This team has very low basketball IQ which is why they consistently make bad passes and miss assignments on D. There isn't much that can be done at this point - Vogel needs to figure out a rotation and stick to it. Roy needs to start making appts with his shrink again - he looks like the fragile Roy that played for JOB - not the confident Roy of last year.

    I think Granger brought more swagger and attitude than I thought and this team is lacking that right now.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    It's interesting that Peck dumped so much on Frank. I was also at the game and thought I saw several changes in the offense. more options that gave guys good shots. The problem was those guys missed those shots. I don't see the Frank hate for this game. He did pretty much all that a coach can do. I have some issues with the amount of time he's playing the guys that can play, but I do understand why he's doing it. At some point, Frank will have pick at least 8 guys and start playing them 35 mpg instead of playing the old starters 40 mpg. Guys are going to wear out and no one will be able to play. At some point he has to start dancing with who he has.

    The Danny sucks in spite of the evidence that he doesn't shtick is getting old to me. I didn't count them, but it seemed that Toronto posted our SF's every other time down the court. Linas Klenza, DeRozan, and the dude from Fresno State shoved our wing defenders under the basket and either forced double teams or just shot over them all night. Some day Paul will be a good post defender, but it wasn't last night. Neither was Lance or Gerald. When none of your wing types can guard Linas Klenza, you have real issues. Pretty sure Danny could guard any of those guys pretty easily. Danny's defense is often criticized here, but the Pacers really missed it last night.

    Pacers missed Danny Granger last night. Evidently he is the only guy on the team that can do that little mid-post post and get that 13-15 footer Peck talks about. I keep waiting for Paul to start doing that. But evidently he just isn't strong enough yet.

    Paul just isn't there yet. His game is better than last years, to be sure. But he seems like the early Jalen Rose in the sense he can do everything ok, but nothing good enough. He is young, and is still getting better, but he still has an almost good enough game. Plus I don't think he's tired enough of getting beat. One of the things that seems to make most good NBA players good players is they really really really don't like losing games. Paul doesn't seem to like losing, but it also doesn't seem to bother him after the games over. A dash of Jeff Foster would help.

    Speaking of young. I think that's a contributing factor. The Pacers two most talented players are the youngest. That has to be an issue. When things are going good, young guys play well. When things start to fall apart, young guys get worse. There is a mental toughness that comes from experience.

    FWIW, the money spent on George Hill last summer was money well spent. Dude is fearless, unselfish, smart, totally coachable, defends and scores. All he wants to do is win. and is willing to do whatever it takes to win. The more guys you have like that on a team, the better that team is.

    The money spent on Roy last summer, meh. I know the team had to pay him. I get that. But right now, Roy is suffering from big contract syndrome. He made lots of money last summer, he's getting lots of props for his community outreach and had professional success last season. As with most guys, he's lost sight of just exactly how hard it is to be a really good NBA player. He's a little out of shape. He's not playing well. He's feeling sorry for himself. Danny is not playing, so he needs to do more to make up for that. The checks keep coming in no matter how he plays. So he's got his head up his as a result. At some point, he will start to play better. He is a good guy that wants to do well. He's just having trouble handling success. More evidence of the youth of this team. His issues fall into the 'what doesn't kill you just makes you stronger' category. At some point he will emerge from this funk mentally stronger and more professional. But right now, he sucks.

    To make a long story short, it's the players, playing bad. When they get tired of losing, they will start playing hard enough to start winning. And it not having Danny Granger on the court. Getting Danny back will fix a host of issues.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors


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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    I thought in the first half the Pacers defense was awful. It was much better in the second half. (also helped that the Raptors were dead tired in the 4th quarter)

    Offense - sure there were problems, but I thought the biggest problem was just missing a ton of very makable shots. I'm not suggesting that the offense doesn't need fixing, but last night if shotmaking would have been normal the pacers win by 10 points.


    Peck's quote
    His sets are predictable and frankly every team in the league knows them. Tonight Calderon was turning around on defense showing the Raptors what play the Pacers were running by hand signal. In other words whatever Frank held up Jose made sure that his team mates saw it.
    Peck, every team knows the other team's plays. I don't consider this a negative factor at all. Defense knows what plays are coming, that is not a big deal. (of course everyone hated JOB's read and react offense system where the defense doesn't know the "play", because they don't run plays) I think every coaches sets are predictable. That isn't the problem at all.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 11-14-2012 at 08:41 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by fwpacerfan View Post
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    This team has very low basketball IQ which is why they consistently make bad passes and miss assignments on D. There isn't much that can be done at this point - Vogel needs to figure out a rotation and stick to it. Roy needs to start making appts with his shrink again - he looks like the fragile Roy that played for JOB - not the confident Roy of last year.

    I think Granger brought more swagger and attitude than I thought and this team is lacking that right now.
    Strange how losing a few games at the start of a season can be said to be very low basketball IQ. This is the same group that played so well last year. Did they get dumbed down in the off season? This is just silly....

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Quote Originally Posted by fwpacerfan View Post
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    This team has very low basketball IQ which is why they consistently make bad passes and miss assignments on D. There isn't much that can be done at this point - Vogel needs to figure out a rotation and stick to it. Roy needs to start making appts with his shrink again - he looks like the fragile Roy that played for JOB - not the confident Roy of last year.

    I think Granger brought more swagger and attitude than I thought and this team is lacking that right now.

    I would suggest sitting Augustin. Play Ben at back up guard. We need some fire and hustle off the bench.
    Additionally Tyler needs to play a lot. He is really starting to defend well. Heck, try him at sf for awhile.

    As far as the draft.......sigh.....are we already looking at that?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    I'm just trying to be patient, but I'm running out of what I have little of... PATIENCE. I'm absolutely frustrated with this team! Granger isn't the reason this team is playing this poorly. Sure, his absence contributes to it, but it isn't the major reason or the sole reason for this team playing so poorly.

    The FO should stand up and take a bow for this mess. Walsh overpaid players, pure and simple. He gave contracts for too long of length and some with every year guaranteed. Ridiculous! If this type of tripe continues, the Pacers will be right where they were when he left... hamstrung with terrible contracts until they expire. Mr. Simon, you wanted Walsh, so I hope you like what you getting. The Pacer fans don't. You know the ones who support this team. This is exactly why I was so adament about Walsh not returning to the Pacers.

    I'm more disinterested in the Pacers now than I have been in the last 5-6 years. After last season, not in my wildest dreams did I ever think I'd make a statement like that!

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  34. #22
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Our biggest issue imo and the first that needs to go is Walsh. He needs to be held accountable for squandering our hard earned cap space this summer and killing our chemistry by almost turning in his entire hand with our bench just for the sake of change.
    If we had DC, Jones, and Barbosa we win agains last night. If Hibbert were playing like last year we win again last night. I don't know what to do about Hibbert but if we'd just offered Kaman a 3 year 24 mil deal and called it quits we'd have a replacement on hand right now.
    Since were stuck with what we have I'd say Vogel needs to be put on notice. A coach has to find a way to get the most out of his players and Vogel just isn't right now. I don't know if a coaching change would help but I'd support it if it were a true upgrade to someone like Sloan.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    It's very depressing when you think about how close we were to getting OJ Mayo for freaking McRoberts. It's even more depressing when you realize that the Mayo/Collison backcourt is help keeping the Mavs' head above water right now. We almost had Mayo and should have never dumped Collison for such a pitiful package.

    The Pacers are minus Granger and Collison. We're without two of our best players from last year's team (including the best) and we have no adequate replacements. It's not surprising that we haven't looked near as good as last year. The talent right now is nowhere near what it was a year ago. The Granger situation obviously isn't our fault, but trading Collison sure is. Collison will torch us on Friday night when Dallas rolls into town.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    The one positive from the Raptors game is the Pacers should not be tired for the Bucks game tonight since they didn't use much energy last night.

    I would rather be the hammer than the nail

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Shameful loss to the Raptors

    Last night, it came down to this: the Pacers could literally not make a shot when they needed to. The Pacers played like crap but were still given many opportunities to take charge in the 4th quarter, but laid an egg. I'm not sure how much is the coach's fault (every team knows every team's sets, or they should). I think the team started believing the hype, that they were a shoe in for the 2 seed in the east, and guess what? They aren't. I don't think the sky is falling (yet), but the team has to start playing well soon, maybe even shoot better than 32%. The opportunity is there, it is up to the Pacers to seize it.

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