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Thread: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Unfortunately, Hibbert and Hill are the new Dunleavy and Murphy, albeit with much higher ceilings. Neither of those contracts is tradeable right now.
    Hill is doing great with his contract, now Roy, Ian and Green in the other hand?

    Also ad Danny to that list as the new JO, huge contract with bad knees.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Where you are sailing is right back into rebuild mode. But poorly managed teams do just that. This team has had one winning season in the recent past, just one. You may not want to admit it but they are still rebuilding. If you start making all of those trades you are proposing, the rebuild over the last four or five years goes right out the window. This is your team. This is what you have. Work with them and keep adding pieces as you can... For those of you who were so happy to see Prichart take over over and Larry Bird leave, well, you got what you wanted, now live with it......
    Pritchard didn't replace Larry, Walsh did, big difference.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Pritchard didn't replace Larry, Walsh did, big difference.
    And yet when we were in wheeling and dealing phase trading for Mahinmi, getting O. Johnson pick, signing Green & DJ - while we were still relatively giddy about just making moves - there was a lot of Pritchard worship going around.

    I remember no small number of posts pulling out the "Pritch-slap" zinger. So when the moves are shiny, new, and only have upside, it's all about KP. When reality starts to take an ugly turn, it's suddenly all about DW?

    Personally, I'll lay blame at both their feet. They both had input on all these personnel matters, right?
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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    And yet when we were in wheeling and dealing phase trading for Mahinmi, getting O. Johnson pick, signing Green & DJ - while we were still relatively giddy about just making moves - there was a lot of Pritchard worship going around.

    I remember no small number of posts pulling out the "Pritch-slap" zinger. So when the moves are shiny, new, and only have upside, it's all about KP. When reality starts to take an ugly turn, it's suddenly all about DW?

    Personally, I'll lay blame at both their feet. They both had input on all these personnel matters, right?
    Yes they both deserve blame for what's happening, the thing is that to me this past off season smells a lot like Walsh, he is known for giving long term contracts to mediocre players, he is also known for falling in love with players and keeping them until they can't walk anymore, I think that if Pritchard was in charge we would have a different team.

    This to me is like Murphleavy,Diener,Rasho,Kareem Rush all over again

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    The play of this team right now is horrible, it is entirely inexplicable, and it is embarrassing. IF they somehow get it together in a few days and start playing well it won't change what happened the first 8 games of the season.

    This team could win 70% of their games on out and we'll still look at each other at the end of the season and ask, "wtf happened those first 8 games? that was pathetic."

    In other words, what they do in the future doesn't change what they've already done, and what they've already done is play **** poor basketball.
    Doesn't makes all these "sky is falling" posts any less silly. We'd just look back and say "damn we had a rough stretch, and now I feel silly asking to trade Hibbert and PG and fire Vogel." Which is exactly what's going to happen.

    A little pressure and having your butt applied to the fire never hurt any team, and it just may bring these guys together even more as the season goes on.

    It's not like we have Kobe, Nash, and Howard, and then rashly fired Brown and brought in Mike D'Antoni after saying that PJ was 95% our guy. Y'all need to get a grip.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Where you are sailing is right back into rebuild mode. But poorly managed teams do just that. This team has had one winning season in the recent past, just one. You may not want to admit it but they are still rebuilding. If you start making all of those trades you are proposing, the rebuild over the last four or five years goes right out the window. This is your team. This is what you have. Work with them and keep adding pieces as you can... For those of you who were so happy to see Prichart take over over and Larry Bird leave, well, you got what you wanted, now live with it......
    Well here's the thing, we may not be rebuilding right now, but its clear that without Danny, this team as currently constructed is going to be around that 34-40 win level that we were stuck under JOB for so many years. That is the LAST thing we want to do because then you're stuck with mid to low level draft prospects.

    IMHO we have 3 realistic tradable assets in West, PG, and (maybe) Roy. Danny and Hill and their contracts are more meaningful to our team than they would be for any other team. Green and Mahinmi are cheap bench players that are inconsistent. DJ may be playing himself into a vets minimum next season if he keeps this up. So that saves 3 players, West for vet leadership and post scoring, PG for "potential", and Roy for (over priced) size. I'm not saying trade all 3, but we need to put together a team that isn't strong in only one area of play. Because when our post players struggle, we lose. And post play is the easiest style of offense to disrupt for opposing coaches.

    Maybe I'm panicking because we've looked god awful all year. Or maybe I'm overreacting to the fact that since our game 3 win over the Heat we are 3-8. But I honestly wonder if last season was the peak for this group, and it'd be better to trade one of our pieces now and try something else, before we're held down by the core of PG, Roy and Hill for the next 5 seasons--none of which are offensively gifted enough (though Hill is a helluva player) to lead that core to a higher playoff seed in the near future.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Re-watch the games guys, take the live bias out of it. Really digest it. This team is not good. I don't know what happened last year but we clearly got really lucky. Hell watch last year's playoffs and ask yourself if you're cool with that. I got caught up in the hype I fully admit because we were finally good. But even then it's not like they were about to knock off Miami anytime soon.

    I appreciate this team. They're great in the community, I don't think they'll have a problem making the playoffs in the god awful East. I don't want to just gloss over how good they are to the fanbase. But I don't care. I'm a Pacers fan because I want a championship. Get one someday and do anything short of move them. Get a title and never win 30 games again, fine with me.

    This team's nowhere close to winning a title. Blow the ****ing thing up. Top to bottom. And very, very, VERY, unfortunately that includes Herb now. I'm tired of trying to moneyball the league. We're never going to win a title by drafting well in the mid-first and overpaying our own talent.

    I'm out to see if I can make a couple billion on lemonade stands or bake sales or something. TANK TANK TANK TANK TANK.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    I don't believe for a second that we were "lucky". Come on guys, we all watched that team, it was a strong team. We took the defending champs to 6 games; you don't do that being "lucky".

    Blow the team up after 8 games, gotta be kiddin me.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I don't believe for a second that we were "lucky". Come on guys, we all watched that team, it was a strong team. We took the defending champs to 6 games; you don't do that being "lucky".

    Blow the team up after 8 games, gotta be kiddin me.
    We took Miami 6 after Bosh got hurt. The same Bosh that's (technically) the best center in the East this year. We beat a crap Orlando squad because Dwight got hurt. WE GOT LUCKY. Miami got serious and blew us off the damn floor.

    It's not even about last year. Anyone think we're beating Miami in the next...forever? Cuz I don't.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Danny Granger does not make us a contender, but he is very, very important to this team. His presence may make the difference between making the playoffs or not.

    Here's what we need to become a contender:

    1. Granger comes back healthy
    2. Roy plays to his potential
    3. Lance becomes a key scorer/go-to playmaker
    4. Trade Paul George for a low post piece that can play two ways. Currently we have an okay defender (Mahinmi) and a good scorer (West)
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 11-14-2012 at 11:29 AM.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I don't believe for a second that we were "lucky". Come on guys, we all watched that team, it was a strong team. We took the defending champs to 6 games; you don't do that being "lucky".

    Blow the team up after 8 games, gotta be kiddin me.
    Maybe that core just peaked last season nd it's time to make some changes. A lot of teams catch lightning in the bottle (championship Mavs team, that 8th seed GS team, WCF DEN team) and have miraculous playoff runs, only to come back to Earth a little the next season.

    We obviously have some good players, we just don't fit so well together right now. The loss of DG magnifies it some, but it shouldn't be this bad.
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 11-14-2012 at 11:32 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    It's completely fixable.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    We took Miami 6 after Bosh got hurt. The same Bosh that's (technically) the best center in the East this year. We beat a crap Orlando squad because Dwight got hurt. WE GOT LUCKY. Miami got serious and blew us off the damn floor.

    It's not even about last year. Anyone think we're beating Miami in the next...forever? Cuz I don't.
    Then I will just respectfully disagree. Whole-heartedly. This is a good team going through a rough patch, that's all it is.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    It is without a doubt. But the question is--what's the ceiling of this team if/when they get fixed? We're still a long ways away from DG returning. PG is till a 3rd option AT BEST right now. We still don't have any proven outside shooting threats. Vogel still can't come up with an effective and versatile offensive gameplan.

    So though a lot of our probs can be fixed, how good can we be once they are? At what point does our lack of creativity/offensive options become a problem. Keep in mind, we're losing/staying compeittive with teams that arent that good. What happens when we play the good teams? What about the great ones?

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I don't believe for a second that we were "lucky". Come on guys, we all watched that team, it was a strong team. We took the defending champs to 6 games; you don't do that being "lucky".

    Blow the team up after 8 games, gotta be kiddin me.
    The Pacers were "lucky" that they didn't suffer a serious injury all last year. The Pacers were "lucky" that it was a shortened season and some players for other teams reported out of shape. The Pacers were "lucky" that they drew an Orlando team without Howard or they might have lost that series 4-0. They were "lucky" that Bosh got hurt and they won a couple of games against Miami. Miami made changes and their superstars blew the Pacers away. So, yes, they had a very "lucky" year. Some of us called it a "magic" year and posters like you hooted that down.... It isn't so magic this year is it....

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    We took Miami 6 after Bosh got hurt. The same Bosh that's (technically) the best center in the East this year. We beat a crap Orlando squad because Dwight got hurt. WE GOT LUCKY. Miami got serious and blew us off the damn floor.

    It's not even about last year. Anyone think we're beating Miami in the next...forever? Cuz I don't.
    There were a few of us who were trying to point this out throughout the off season. Some of us expected the Pacers to move back in the pack because they didn't do anything to their starting unit. Where are all of those folks now who insist we had the best staring unit in the entire NBA?? Time to eat some crow, guys. Many of you were overrating this team by a whole lot....

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    I'm not eating crow. It's been 8 games. We don't have our best player. There's nothing that's been "proved". It's simply a good team in a bad patch.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Then I will just respectfully disagree. Whole-heartedly. This is a good team going through a rough patch, that's all it is.
    It is a rough patch but it is more than that too. You and others here thought this team was a lot better than it is. Some of you were picking 58 to 60+ wins for this team this year. Some of us with our feet on the ground knew how lucky they were last year to not suffer any major injuries and to have a superstar sidelined in their first playoff round and another star injured in their second round although the two superstars adjusted and blew the Pacers away. Several of us suggested the Pacers were going to come back to the field and finish 5th or 6th in the east at around 48-34 and if they had a major injury, they would have to scramble to get the eighth seed and make the playoffs at all. Larry Bird knew this team way overperformed last year and when Simon wouldn't come on board to pursue a superstar or two, Bird bailed..... The result that you say was inevitable. It was bound to happen as soon as they had an injury to a key player.... Do you still think this (even with Granger) is the best starting unit in the entire NBA?

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    It's completely fixable.
    No, it isn't. Fact: the Pacers have never been able to get a superstar to come to this team. They won't any time soon either. The closest they ever came was Reggie Miller and he was a star but not a superstar. They kept him and they even got to the finals one year..... This is not likely to happen again and the real problem is that the owner is not driven to win a title. He is content with a team that can make the playoffs and win a first round series once in a while.... That is why we no longer have Larry Bird. I think Bird will come back with a large market team and try to win it all. He certainly knew enought to jump off of this ship when it was timely....

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I'm not eating crow. It's been 8 games. We don't have our best player. There's nothing that's been "proved". It's simply a good team in a bad patch.
    You will be eating crow. I have had to do it with the Colts because they are just better than almost anyone thought they could be. I still don't like Luck but one has to admit when one is completely wrong. You are completely wrong. You may never again have the player who was your best player. You will get Granger back but he may not be the Granger of old and even if he is, it won't solve all of these problems...

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    I'm not ready to jump ship just yet. There was bad (a whole lot of bad), but I'm trying to focus on the positives from last night (and yes, there were a couple). First off, Lance is beginning to look like a player. Second, I think Hans is beginning to find his role on the team. Third, we created a lot of shots around the basket for Hibbert and West. and Four, the defense is looking pretty good. I don't think I've ever seen a team miss so many shots at the rim, and I can only hope that if were to play that game again, those shots would start to fall and we would have won easily.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    You will be eating crow. I have had to do it with the Colts because they are just better than almost anyone thought they could be. I still don't like Luck but one has to admit when one is completely wrong. You are completely wrong. You may never again have the player who was your best player. You will get Granger back but he may not be the Granger of old and even if he is, it won't solve all of these problems...
    I was right about Luck, and I'm right about this. You don't jump ship after 8 games. You've had this issue twice now, jumping ship when your team goes through a rough patch. You're the opposite of a fan. You think you're "on" to something with the teams you "support", but you're not. You're more interested in predicting failure so you can prove everyone that you're right instead of just supporting your team.

    I know what I'm looking at with this team --- it's not the JOB-era losers. This is a decent team and it's a rough start to their year. It's all it is.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 11-14-2012 at 12:53 PM.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    So, what do the Pacers need to do for OlBlu to "no longer have interest in them" too? Really don't want to see this forum get trashed as well...

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    It is fair to say that the pacers do not have their best scorer (calling him your best player considering hibbert's new contract is not really fair), but that doesn't change anything, considering that he's out what, another 40-50 games?

    The pacers are in trouble right now, and nothing short of a trade is going to change that.

    The best case scenario is that hibbert starts playing up to his contract, but that won't solve the perimeter scoring issues
    Last edited by Kstat; 11-14-2012 at 01:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    It is fair to say that the pacers do not have their best scorer (calling him your best player considering hibbert's new contract is not really fair), but that doesn't change anything, considering that he's out what, another 40-50 games?

    The pacers are in trouble right now, and mothering short of a trade is going to change that.
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