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Thread: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

  1. #201
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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Listen Hill is slowly developing into probably the Pacers second, maybe greatest point guard ever. Seriously. He's the only player playing well right now. The last thing we need to do is moving him to the "2" so our garbage backup point guard DJ can get more minutes.

    The reason DJ isn't playing well is he NEVER played well. He isn't very good. I think once someone comes in and fixes this cluster***** of a team you'll see DJ play better off the bench once he gets acclimated to the role.

    Hill isn't a "traditional" point, but then again neither is every point guard outside of Deron, CP3, Nash, Rondo and that's about it. There's a few borderline guys like Mike Conley, but for the most part every point in the league is a shoot-first type point guard.

    I'm no fan of Hill's contract, but it isn't crippling and he could be a point guard for a championship level team. The problem with this team right now is EVERYONE ELSE. There is the problem. So, let's start a fire sale.

    Edit - anyone upset about the fact that the Pacers could of had Harden? IMagine Harden/Hill back court? man that'd be badass.

    Had we used Paul George as the main asset the Pacers could of landed Harden possibly. But people like me thought George was going to be a star. (har)

    Edit 2 - Real quick compare Hill's numbers against Mike Conley. I like Conley because he's essentially the perfect point. He's not a superstar taking up all your cap space, but he's a great defender, and then a willing and able passer thought not near the talents of guys like Rondo. He's also blossomed into a real good shooter which means he's a threat from nearly every aspect on the court. Just a real solid player.

    Well, Hill is creeping on Conley's abilities. Hill is averaging more points at 15.5 (vs 14.8) but less assists at 5.5. (vs 6.8) I'll like Hill's numbers and I like how he's running the offense. The nice thing is, while Conley has come out playing his best basketball that probably won't be sustainable, Hill is still a little rusty and is not shooting at the level we know he can.

    We'll most likely see Hill's numbers continue to trend upwards. Hill at the end of the season might make the case to being a top 10 point guard, and in a league of superstar point guards, that is saying something.
    Harden signed for $80 million dollars. The Pacers would never pay anyone that and that is one of the reasons they do not have and will not get a superstar....

  2. #202
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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Maybe the Pacers should have kept bring HIll off the bench then. he was pretty happy in that role. I think it was a mistake to make Hill the starter when DC came back. Fine if you want to do it in the offseason, but I think it really forced our hand to do it how we did in season, it is a fairly unwritten rule in sports that a starter should not lose their spot over a short term injury. And the thing that was mised is that while we were good with Hill as the starter, it is not like we were bad with DC.
    You know Joe, maybe we made the mistake of keeping PG over DC. Maybe we should have pushed DC/Hill backcourt as opposed to having a DC or Hill backcourt with PG. We've been force feeding PG minutes but maybe we should have regulated him to the bench, while maintaining a DC/G HILL backcourt....just a thought.

  3. #203
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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    You know Joe, maybe we made the mistake of keeping PG over DC. Maybe we should have pushed DC/Hill backcourt as opposed to having a DC or Hill backcourt with PG. We've been force feeding PG minutes but maybe we should have regulated him to the bench, while maintaining a DC/G HILL backcourt....just a thought.
    That's a possibility too. I don't know that it would have fixed it. I'd be a big fan of having a DC, Hill, PG, 1-2-3 right now.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    That's a possibility too. I don't know that it would have fixed it. I'd be a big fan of having a DC, Hill, PG, 1-2-3 right now.
    If that had happened, we would probably be 5-4 or 4-5 and the board would be complaining about our small lineup.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    If that had happened, we would probably be 5-4 or 4-5 and the board would be complaining about our small lineup.
    I was expecting us to be 5-4 after this game when I went through the schedule before the season after we knew Danny was out. So I would have been OK with that.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I was expecting us to be 5-4 after this game when I went through the schedule before the season after we knew Danny was out. So I would have been OK with that.
    I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but before Collison was traded it was pretty widely accepted that it was obvious we had to choose either Hill or Collison for our team if 1 was to be our starting PG. People by and large tend to forget when evaluating roster changes that the changes are made based on evaluation of talent and the speculation of how it fits together.

  7. #207

    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    People by and large tend to forget when evaluating roster changes that the changes are made based on evaluation of talent and the speculation of how it fits together.
    This is my biggest gripe right now with the front office and the moves they made. The new guys do not fit this teams identity. Which was smart "smashmouth" basketball. Not flashy plays with bad court awareness, or lazy defense.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    This is my biggest gripe right now with the front office and the moves they made. The new guys do not fit this teams identity. Which was smart "smashmouth" basketball. Not flashy plays with bad court awareness, or lazy defense.
    People claimed our starting five was the best unit in all of the NBA. Well, it wasn't true when they said it and you see the proof now. Granger is not a superstar and his being out is not causing all of these problems.....

  9. #209
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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Edit 2 - Real quick compare Hill's numbers against Mike Conley. I like Conley because he's essentially the perfect point. He's not a superstar taking up all your cap space, but he's a great defender, and then a willing and able passer thought not near the talents of guys like Rondo. He's also blossomed into a real good shooter which means he's a threat from nearly every aspect on the court. Just a real solid player.

    Well, Hill is creeping on Conley's abilities. Hill is averaging more points at 15.5 (vs 14.8) but less assists at 5.5. (vs 6.8) I'll like Hill's numbers and I like how he's running the offense. The nice thing is, while Conley has come out playing his best basketball that probably won't be sustainable, Hill is still a little rusty and is not shooting at the level we know he can.

    We'll most likely see Hill's numbers continue to trend upwards. Hill at the end of the season might make the case to being a top 10 point guard, and in a league of superstar point guards, that is saying something.
    George Hill: 14.1 points on .407 shooting (.275 3pt %), 4.7 assists, 4.1 rebounds, 1.1 steals and 2.1 turnovers (Pacers are 3-6)
    Mike Conley: 13.9 points on .473 shooting (.360 3pt %), 6.9 assists, 3.6 rebounds, 1.7 steals and 3.0 turnovers (Grizzlies are 6-1)

    Statistically, you could probably argue that he's one of the ten worst in the league right now. Now you can blame most of that on our ****** system, but George Hill is still no superstar.

  10. #210
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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    George Hill: 14.1 points on .407 shooting (.275 3pt %), 4.7 assists, 4.1 rebounds, 1.1 steals and 2.1 turnovers (Pacers are 3-6)
    Mike Conley: 13.9 points on .473 shooting (.360 3pt %), 6.9 assists, 3.6 rebounds, 1.7 steals and 3.0 turnovers (Grizzlies are 6-1)

    Statistically, you could probably argue that he's one of the ten worst in the league right now. Now you can blame most of that on our ****** system, but George Hill is still no superstar.
    10 worst? He's almost singlehandely won 2 more games for us, while hitting a clutch shot in 2 of our 3 wins. Last night( and the SA game) hurt his shooting %. He's been great. Yes he's had a bad game or two but he's a 3rd/4th option guy, not a 2nd option which he's been forced into and still done an admirable job. Hill isn't a part of the problem here, he'll be a part of the solution if we ever come to one.

  11. #211
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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    10 worst? He's almost singlehandely won 2 more games for us, while hitting a clutch shot in 2 of our 3 wins. Last night( and the SA game) hurt his shooting %. He's been great. Yes he's had a bad game or two but he's a 3rd/4th option guy, not a 2nd option which he's been forced into and still done an admirable job. Hill isn't a part of the problem here, he'll be a part of the solution if we ever come to one.
    Are superstars or all-stars usually 3rd or 4th options? My argument was simply that George Hill is neither. He's easily the most overrated Pacer of the past decade. Now, when I say he's overrated, I don't mean to diminish his contributions this year or last. He's one of the few that is not playing like absolute crap this season. However, an all-star he is not (and I don't think he'll ever be). Also note that I said you could argue he's one of the ten worst statistically. I don't think he's one of the ten worst in the league, not for a minute, but he ranks 35th in assists per game (after such point guard luminaries as A.J. Price and J.J. Reddick - and tied with All-Star point guard Marc Gasol) and his shooting is hovering just above 40%. Shannon Brown is averaging the same 14 points on .407 shooting! He'll never be among the ten best point guards in the league because of the depth of talent at that position, but also because he's just not that great of a point guard.
    Last edited by LoneGranger33; 11-15-2012 at 09:25 AM.

  12. #212
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    Default Re: Pacers/Raptors postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Are superstars or all-stars usually 3rd or 4th options? .
    James Harden, Manu Ginobili, Lamar Odom, Jason Terry, Dennis Johnson back in the day, the list goes on. Just because he isn't a super-superstar doesn't mean he isn't a really good player. He's been the closer more times than not since he's gotten here.


    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    He's easily the most overrated Pacer of the past decade. .
    Darren Collison, Mike Dunleavy, hell ROY HIBBERT..... You may not think much of G.Hill but I'm damn glad we got him.

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