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Thread: Free Agency Awaits David West

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    . . . BTW....if there is any Player that would likely be traded before the February 2012-2013 Trade deadline....my $$$ is on the older Hansbrough.....not West. Also...IMHO...I think that Granger will likely be moved in the 2013-2014 offseason.
    I doubt that Tyler will be traded. Possibly not resigned, but not traded. If he is not resigned, a guy like Ian or Gerald will be signed to replace him. There are lots of guys that fit into the decent backup big slot. Or possibly Miles will be slotted into the backup big spot.

    I hope Danny is not traded. the current edition of the Pacers shows Danny's value is more than most of us realize. I cannot believe TPTB are that stupid. The only exception to that is if they can trade 2 for 1 where the guy coming back is a star player.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    If the Pacers continue at their current rate and remain a fringe playoff team, then they should definitely trade West for assets.

    I had hoped Augustin would do well since it's a contract year and that the Pacers could flip him to a playoff team for a younger pg.

    West for Kawhi Leonard? haha
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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Roy is not going anywhere, Danny doesn't have any value, Hill is not going anywhere, Paul George is not going anywhere, at this point the Pacers need to realize that without Danny they are not going anywhere, not only that but I don't think we can expect Danny to be 100% healthy ever again(like Dunleavy).

    The Pacers only asset is West, he is not part of the future and the Pacers are probably going lose him for nothing, trade him to a team that feels like they need one more piece to compete and try to get one or two young pieces plus picks for the future, at some point the Pacers front office has to do what is best for the franchise.

    Here are some teams that could probably trade for West: Houston, Atlanta, SA, OKC, Boston, Denver, GS, maybe more teams.
    Keep in mind that the Pacers aren't going to just take back a prospect and filler just for West given their desire continue their Playoff run. Whatever Team that the Pacers trade West to has to have a Starting Quality PF that can be sent back to fill the hole that West vacates. Add in that the Pacers would have to take back in order to match the $10+ mil that is owed to West....I am hard pressed to find a trade that would work.

    Another thing to consider....I see the logic in what you are suggesting....get something for West since there is the chance that West could bolt and we lose him for nothing....but the FO has shown me nothing to indicate that they don't intend to re-sign him or that they do not believe that West is the guy that they want to keep for the long term.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Roy is not going anywhere, Danny doesn't have any value, Hill is not going anywhere, Paul George is not going anywhere, at this point the Pacers need to realize that without Danny they are not going anywhere, not only that but I don't think we can expect Danny to be 100% healthy ever again(like Dunleavy).

    The Pacers only asset is West, he is not part of the future and the Pacers are probably going lose him for nothing, trade him to a team that feels like they need one more piece to compete and try to get one or two young pieces plus picks for the future, at some point the Pacers front office has to do what is best for the franchise.

    Here are some teams that could probably trade for West: Houston, Atlanta, SA, OKC, Boston, Denver, GS, maybe more teams.
    a trade with Houston would be sweet.

    Terrance Jones + Royce White or Terrance Jones + Greg Smith (give PG an old college buddy)

    OKC would be nice, could try to get PJIII...nah, wouldn't happen. I still like Reggie Jackson dammit.

    Denver, would love to get Faried...not gonna happen though.

    Golden State - Jarrett Jack (plus extension)
    With the #3 pick in the 2015 draft, your Indiana Pacers!

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    I doubt that Tyler will be traded. Possibly not resigned, but not traded. If he is not resigned, a guy like Ian or Gerald will be signed to replace him. There are lots of guys that fit into the decent backup big slot. Or possibly Miles will be slotted into the backup big spot.

    I hope Danny is not traded. the current edition of the Pacers shows Danny's value is more than most of us realize. I cannot believe TPTB are that stupid. The only exception to that is if they can trade 2 for 1 where the guy coming back is a star player.
    If the Pacers aren't inclined to resign Tyler, why wouldn't you trade him and try to get something?
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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Pacers need to trade him, get something of value before losing him for nothing, Im expecting that at some point the Pacers learn their leason, or they can get burn again if they feel like it.
    I agree that is the most sensible thing to do, but it'll kill our playoff run (if one exists)
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  7. #32

    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    If the Pacers aren't inclined to resign Tyler, why wouldn't you trade him and try to get something?
    They get cap space if they let him sign with someone else. Tyler makes about the same as a guy like Gerald or Ian. The cost of another backup big is about the same as it would cost to resign Tyler. It makes sense to 'try to get something' if that something is cost efficient and is worth more than the freed cap space. Making a trade just to make a trade, for another wing as an example, uses up cap space on a guy that won't play.

    My thinking is sometimes cap space is better than making a trade to keep from losing a guy.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    a trade with Houston would be sweet.

    Terrance Jones + Royce White or Terrance Jones + Greg Smith (give PG an old college buddy)

    OKC would be nice, could try to get PJIII...nah, wouldn't happen. I still like Reggie Jackson dammit.

    Denver, would love to get Faried...not gonna happen though.

    Golden State - Jarrett Jack (plus extension)
    I like the pieces Houston has, Patterson, Morris, etc, it looks to me like they want to win now and are looking to spend money, send them Ian+West for a package of Patterson+Morris and maybe a pick?

    OKC's Lamb+ Perkins for West+Ian?

    Denver's Wilson Chandler+pick for West?

    There are many scenarios were the Pacers can send West to.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    I doubt that Tyler will be traded. Possibly not resigned, but not traded. If he is not resigned, a guy like Ian or Gerald will be signed to replace him. There are lots of guys that fit into the decent backup big slot. Or possibly Miles will be slotted into the backup big spot.
    Keep in mind that even if he is not re-signed...his contract will have a Caphold that would affect the Pacers 2013-2014 Salary Cap. Especially if the Pacers have little intention to re-sign the him....it would be in their best interest to move his Salary before the 2012-2013 Trading Deadline so that his Caphold cannot impact the Pacers ability to sign Free Agents. My thought is that the Pacers are going to kick the tires to see if they can get a future 2nd round pick and an Expiring Contract for him while clearing his 2013-2014 Salary Caphold from the books.

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    I hope Danny is not traded. the current edition of the Pacers shows Danny's value is more than most of us realize. I cannot believe TPTB are that stupid. The only exception to that is if they can trade 2 for 1 where the guy coming back is a star player.
    Given that Danny will be a UFA in the 2014-2015 season and will likely ask for a very big contract when he becomes a Free Agent...I don't see the Pacers giving him as much as he think he's worth....that's why I can see them moving him anytime between now and the summer of 2013 for an Expiring Contract and a prospect. Add in that PG will likely get a $11-13 mil contract offer as a RFA in 2014-2015 and the Pacers will either re-sign West or find a Starting Quality PF to replace him ( Milsap? )....unless Granger can be had for a reasonable price...I don't see Granger and PG on the same Team beyond the summer of 2013.

    The reality is that the Pacers simply can't afford to have a Starting lineup that eats up the the vast majority of the SalaryCap space by the start of the 2014-2015 Season ( when PG becomes a RFA ). We are stuck with Hibbert and Hill eating up $24 mil in Salary by the 2014-2015 season.....add in that PG will likely get a $10 to 12 mil contract offer.....re-signing Granger AND West to $9 to 12+ mil contract each....would get us over that.
    Last edited by CableKC; 11-12-2012 at 03:36 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Keep in mind that even if he is not re-signed...his contract will have a Caphold that would affect the Pacers 2013-2014 Salary Cap. Especially if the Pacers have little intention to re-sign the him....it would be in their best interest to move his Salary before the 2012-2013 Trading Deadline so that his Caphold cannot impact the Pacers ability to sign Free Agents. My thought is that the Pacers are going to kick the tires to see if they can get a future 2nd round pick and an Expiring Contract for him while clearing his 2013-2014 Salary Caphold from the books.
    If they have no intent on signing him, they simply renounce their Bird Rights and poof the cap hold is gone.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Given that Danny will be a UFA in the 2014-2015 season and will likely ask for a very big contract when he becomes a Free Agent...I don't see the Pacers giving him as much as he think he's worth....that's why I can see them moving him anytime between now and the summer of 2013 for an Expiring Contract and a prospect. Add in that PG will likely get a $11-13 mil contract offer as a RFA in 2014-2015 and the Pacers will either re-sign West or find a Starting Quality PF to replace him ( Milsap? )....unless Granger can be had for a reasonable price...I don't see Granger and PG on the same Team beyond the summer of 2013. The Pacers simply can't afford to have a Starting lineup that eats up the the vast majority of the SalaryCap space.
    Danny's value is nothing now, next year he could probably get traded as an expirer, the time were Danny could have been traded to a team because they wanted him to play for them has passed(at least with the current contract), only a crazy team would trade for a guy with knee injuries, I know anything is possible but I don't see it.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by MnvrChvy View Post
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    If PG wants $12M a year, you let him walk and laugh at the taker. Love the kid, but he hasn't proven anything yet, and $12M is 'proven' money.
    Batum got 4 years/$46m. Expect PG to get similar or maybe even more.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    A go-to guy that's not part of the future, they need to trade him while he has some value instead of letting him sign with another team, not only that but if they sign him long term I think there is a huge chance that he becomes a burden like Foster,JO,Ford,etc.

    By the way we need to realize that this team(without Danny) is not a contender, hopefully the Pacers realize this and start some small rebuilding while keeping Roy,PG and Hill as part of their future core.
    So this team without Granger isn't a contender, but you want to give up the only go-to guy (he's only 32, I think he's probably got 2-3 good seasons left. Nobody is saying to give him a four or five year deal), but you still want to keep the "softer" portion of the starting lineup?

    You'd be set with your third (Roy), fourth (Hill) and fifth (PG) options, I suppose. That just strikes me as a quick way to get back to being a #8 seed, but with a somewhat tougher PG to play against Rose in the first round.


    Hard to imagine how you'd find your go-to guy and second option in that scenario. I'd rather keep the current front-court together, figure out if/when Granger can return to form, and figure out a way to improve our wings overall without costing us West, Hibbert, or Hill.
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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    I expect him to be re-signed.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Amazing how after one summer and 7 games it feels like they have a bunch of bad contracts again. Its too early to tell, but its a shame that West could be gone and he's such a big difference maker, imo.

    Be interesting to see how the new CBA starts to impact signings if at all.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    So this team without Granger isn't a contender, but you want to give up the only go-to guy (he's only 32, I think he's probably got 2-3 good seasons left. Nobody is saying to give him a four or five year deal), but you still want to keep the "softer" portion of the starting lineup?

    You'd be set with your third (Roy), fourth (Hill) and fifth (PG) options, I suppose. That just strikes me as a quick way to get back to being a #8 seed, but with a somewhat tougher PG to play against Rose in the first round.


    Hard to imagine how you'd find your go-to guy and second option in that scenario. I'd rather keep the current front-court together, figure out if/when Granger can return to form, and figure out a way to improve our wings overall without costing us West, Hibbert, or Hill.
    The Pacers look like an out of the playoffs or 7th 8th seat right now with West as their best player, I guess if you want to be the JOB mediocre Pacers for years to come you keep the same people, keeping West is not going to make the Pacers contenders and upgrading the wings without giving up a key player is a dream.

    Again West hot start should give the Pacers a nice trade ship, some "want to win now team" should be able to give something nice back in return, keeping West is going to be as beneficiary as keeping Foster and letting him retire as a Pacers, in other words not beneficiary at all.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Question... Do we hold Bird rights to DWest?? We only signed him to a two year deal, and I thought that we had to have him signed for a 3 year deal to get his Bird rights... Any of you CBA experts able verify or deny this?? If we do not hold Bird rights on him, then we have to trade him by the deadline this year, IMO.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    I hope Danny is not traded. the current edition of the Pacers shows Danny's value is more than most of us realize. I cannot believe TPTB are that stupid. The only exception to that is if they can trade 2 for 1 where the guy coming back is a star player.
    Danny's injury I think is giving us a preview of what a possible post-Granger future looks like. I know the team doesn't look good right now, but it's early yet, and if the team finds ways to be competitive without Danny, then he could end up on the trading block next year. All this is speculative at this point of course.

    Like CableKC, I'm not sure how Danny fits long term. Ideally, he'd be willing to re-sign for a reduced role (and correspondingly reduced contract) past his current deal, but I'm not sure he's willing to do that.

    I'm really not sure about West. On the one hand, he has really been effective for us. On the other hand, he'll be 33 next year - how long can he continue to play at a high level? I think we'd all be happy to re-sign him for less money, and it's quite possible that he won't be as sought after as younger guys like Millsap. But I could see the Pacers letting him walk if the price tag gets too high. I don't think we'll trade him mid-season though.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by bballpacen View Post
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    Question... Do we hold Bird rights to DWest?? We only signed him to a two year deal, and I thought that we had to have him signed for a 3 year deal to get his Bird rights... Any of you CBA experts able verify or deny this?? If we do not hold Bird rights on him, then we have to trade him by the deadline this year, IMO.
    xIndyFan explained it in the previous page. We have Early Bird rights but not full Bird rights. Early Bird rights is more than enough in West's case though - allows a contract starting at 175% of old contract.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Again West hot start should give the Pacers a nice trade ship, some "want to win now team" should be able to give something nice back in return, keeping West is going to be as beneficiary as keeping Foster and letting him retire as a Pacers, in other words not beneficiary at all.
    I'm not sure that West will fetch as much as you seem to think. The teams that can most use him (SA, Boston) have limited assets. OKC, Denver, GS are all at luxury tax level or higher, so trading for West is likely to be a rental for them. Houston and Atlanta both have big FA plans next year, so will probably regard West as a rental as well.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    xIndyFan explained it in the previous page. We have Early Bird rights but not full Bird rights. Early Bird rights is more than enough in West's case though - allows a contract starting at 175% of old contract.



    I'm not sure that West will fetch as much as you seem to think. The teams that can most use him (SA, Boston) have limited assets. OKC, Denver, GS are all at luxury tax level or higher, so trading for West is likely to be a rental for them. Houston and Atlanta both have big FA plans next year, so will probably regard West as a rental as well.
    Even as I rental I wouldn't be surprised that a team gives the Pacers some assets, OKC makes sense because they need somebody that can score inside and they also need to move Perkins, Perkins+asset for West could be done I think, now I don't know how that affects the Pacers cap though.

    Edit: Oh and they need to make sure to ad Ian or Green on the trade too.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 11-12-2012 at 03:49 PM.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    If they have no intent on signing him, they simply renounce their Bird Rights and poof the cap hold is gone.
    Yes...but I assume that they will kick the tires to see what they can get for him on teh Open market.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Keep in mind that even if he is not re-signed...his contract will have a Caphold that would affect the Pacers 2013-2014 Salary Cap. Especially if the Pacers have little intention to re-sign the him....it would be in their best interest to move his Salary before the 2012-2013 Trading Deadline so that his Caphold cannot impact the Pacers ability to sign Free Agents. My thought is that the Pacers are going to kick the tires to see if they can get a future 2nd round pick and an Expiring Contract for him while clearing his 2013-2014 Salary Caphold from the books.
    Since Tyler is an expiring contract, the value of trading him for one seems negligible. as does the value of a 2nd round pick. Now I agree that a 2nd round pick is better than no 2nd round pick, but only some of the time. Sometimes the cap space and roster space is more valuable than the pick. The cap hold is unimportant. It can be renounced whenever it needs to be. Worrying about it is pointless.


    Given that Danny will be a UFA in the 2014-2015 season and will likely ask for a very big contract when he becomes a Free Agent...I don't see the Pacers giving him as much as he think he's worth....that's why I can see them moving him anytime between now and the summer of 2013 for an Expiring Contract and a prospect. Add in that PG will likely get a $11-13 mil contract offer as a RFA in 2014-2015 and the Pacers will either re-sign West or find a Starting Quality PF to replace him ( Milsap? )....unless Granger can be had for a reasonable price...I don't see Granger and PG on the same Team beyond the summer of 2013.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    The reality is that the Pacers simply can't afford to have a Starting lineup that eats up the the vast majority of the SalaryCap space by the start of the 2014-2015 Season ( when PG becomes a RFA ). We are stuck with Hibbert and Hill eating up $24 mil in Salary by the 2014-2015 season.....add in that PG will likely get a $10 to 12 mil contract offer.....re-signing Granger AND West to $9 to 12+ mil contract each....would get us over that.
    That is true. Again, it maybe better to let a guy sign elsewhere and use the cap space for something else. I think you are overlooking the value of cap space in your analysis of trading possibilities. Just an example, trading Danny or David for multiple guys that are just guys is not a good trade in spite of getting something for your guy you don't want to resign. Like you said, there are only so many salary slots that can be used. Letting David go to keep Paul is a valid reason. Trading David for a couple of guys and a second doesn't make any more room to resign Paul. For today's NBA GM, sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something.

    Edit: IMO, trading a healthy Danny borders on insane. Unless you get a guy like Gasol or Josh Smith or Rondo or some other top guy. In other words, the only trade to make is one in which Danny is not the best player being traded. Danny is a really good player and a player that evidently is very important to this team success.
    Last edited by xIndyFan; 11-12-2012 at 04:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Even as I rental I wouldn't be surprised that a team gives the Pacers some assets, OKC makes sense because they need somebody that can score inside and they also need to move Perkins, Perkins+asset for West could be done I think, now I don't know how that affects the Pacers cap though.

    Edit: Oh and they need to make sure to ad Ian or Green on the trade too.
    Is there any chance we could do a Granger and Hans/IM or a West and Hans/Green to Atl for Josh Smith? Salaries would be pretty close and might even be able to get 1 year extensions for each team. Smith may or may not stay in Atl., but his ability to play both forward positions and clear space for Roy would make him a very good fit for the Pacers, IMO. I don't think we can keep both DW and DG after this year without spending a lot more money than Simon will be interested in spending when the PG contract comes due. Hans/Granger with a sign and trade for about the same money would fit for Smith if he would agree to sign and trade.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by MnvrChvy View Post
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    If PG wants $12M a year, you let him walk and laugh at the taker. Love the kid, but he hasn't proven anything yet, and $12M is 'proven' money.
    yep, i like what he brings with the D and he is a terrific rebounder at his position but i have not seen 12 million a year out of him yet.

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    Default Re: Free Agency Awaits David West

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The Pacers look like an out of the playoffs or 7th 8th seat right now with West as their best player, I guess if you want to be the JOB mediocre Pacers for years to come you keep the same people, keeping West is not going to make the Pacers contenders and upgrading the wings without giving up a key player is a dream.
    No, the difference between this team and the O'Brien era team, including the team Vogel got to the playoffs and then fell apart in the fourth quarter of every game against the Bulls is West. Maybe he doesn't make us a top-four contender (hard to blame him, this team was supposed to have Granger). But I think you're undervaluing what David actually does for this team and will continue to do for a couple more seasons. He's not going to play forever, obviously, but he should play here for longer than just the rest of this contract.

    Yes, we won't really be a title contender until David is our second option, and Danny (or Roy) is our third option. That's certainly true. But if you give up David, you've really got to get both a first and second option in return. That's a tall order for a team that will be near/ over the cap.

    I guess the difference is, right now I see them trying to maximize the team based on what they have or can reasonably get. You'd like to set fire to them so see if something else might be better in a few years. Given this franchise's financial struggles, its hard to blame them for having some patience with the roster they've been investing in. It isn't the fault of any of our active players that Danny is out.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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