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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Bucher Article about Fred from ESPN

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  • Bucher Article about Fred from ESPN

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...ric&id=1934981

    Jones Right Not To Fight

    By Ric Bucher
    ESPN the Magazine

    If anyone came out ahead as a result of the Pacers-Pistons riot, it would have to be swingman Fred Jones.


    He showed his loyalty as a teammate by charging into the stands, yet he avoided swinging on any fans or incurring any punishment from the NBA. That left him ready and available to move into the starting lineup -- Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson not being so lucky or wise -- to log 40-plus minutes a night ever since. Exquisite timing, since he's eligible to sign a contract extension this summer.


    Only Jones isn't sure even now if he behaved appropriately. Specifically, he wonders if he shouldn't have sought revenge on the beefy fan -- later identified as a friend of Pistons center Ben Wallace -- who sucker-punched Jones in the back of the head while he attempted to pull Artest back down to the floor.


    "I still think about, 'Did I make the right decision?' every day," Jones said. "Right now I have mixed emotions about what I should've done."


    How, you ask, is that possible? How could being potentially suspended and cast as a knucklehead along with Artest, Jackson and O'Neal be favorable to his current position?



    The suspensions of Artest, Jackson and O'Neal have allowed Jones to display his skills.
    The short answer is that unless you're part of the 2004-2005 Indiana Pacers, your opinion doesn't carry much weight. The longer answer is that Old Testament thinking -- as in that eye-for-an-eye stuff -- remains in vogue.


    Back to the short answer: Everybody and anybody -- including many who weren't even in the arena or watching it live -- has critiqued what transpired and categorically blasted the participants. It has been labelled a tragedy and travesty, if not a death knell for the NBA, then certainly a warning shot.


    The Pacers don't share that view, if Jones is any reflection. To them, they merely got caught up in a extraordinary combination of circumstances, or "an isolated incident," as Jones says, that won't happen again. Commissioner David Stern, in this view, cracked down hard to placate the ticket-buying public, not because something egregious occurred. Jones, in a sense, is suffering from survivor guilt.


    Maybe he'd feel different if the remaining Pacers believed their suspended teammates had derailed their season or championships hopes. But, says Jones, "We embraced them right away. They're not any less as teammates because of what happened. If anything, we're looking forward to them rejoining us. The league has given us the opportunity to develop a lot of guys who ordinarily wouldn't get much playing time. It's going to be tough for somebody to stop us once we get everybody back, because we're going to have so many guys who played a lot this season."


    But aren't Jones and his teammates aware of the harsh light in which this incident puts both them and the league?


    Sure they are. It's just that comments about what happened from anywhere outside the Pacers' locker room are given the same respect a surgeon would give to someone who has never held a scalpel, or the same heed a soldier would pay to someone who never has been in combat. Crazy as that may sound, ask yourself this: How much validity do you grant to someone who tells you how you screwed up on your job, if that person isn't in your line of work and doesn't know firsthand what your job entails?


    Players are routinely criticized from the outside, and often inaccurately. Sometimes it's by critics who don't know the game plan, or the game. Sometimes it's for situations off the court before all the details are fully known. In any case, rush-to-judgments are part and parcel in this broadband/videophone/299-channel/reality-TV age.


    The new rules seem to be: Don't wait to find out what really happened. Say it loud and proud and without equivocation.


    Should we really be surprised, then, that Artest or anybody else taking the brunt of all that criticism has tuned out the proselytizing? Or refuses to act as contrite as we'd expect them to?


    I'll be honest: my original idea was to write about how well Jones handled himself in a difficult situation, and how we should be praising that behavior as much as we're condemning Artest's. I don't know Jones personally, but anybody who calls me back on Thanksgiving to talk about a subject already combed threadbare is a cut above, as far as I'm concerned. I appreciate that he's honest enough to admit his uncertainty over how he reacted when the easy way would've been to play along with my premise.


    All of which makes me wonder if the real problem is what constitutes being a righteous fellow these days. Are you a wimp for not hitting back, no matter what, even if it means innocent people will be hurt and escalating the violence? My guess is that if Artest had actually nailed the guy who threw the cup at him and the skirmish had ended there, more than a few people would've lauded Ron-Ron for making the guy pay. As if that warrants admiration.


    Jones, then, is working in a storm of competing ideas, or, at best, in a vacuum. The replays, tick by tick, frame by frame, show him getting popped in the back of the head. If you're a 20-something testosterone-jacked male, that doesn't come off as noble. It comes off as having been punked. Especially in the NBA, survival means never backing down from a challenge or allowing yourself to be intimidated -- or, if you do give in, enduring whispers of being "soft" from those you respect most.


    That's why Jones wants it known he didn't just walk away.


    "He hit me one time from behind, he missed with the other two," he says. "When I turned around, I couldn't see him. Everything was kind of cluttered up. I'm still upset that I couldn't defend myself."


    Not that Jones believes players should be free to maraud the stands, pummeling anyone who confronts them. He simply believes codes of conduct should be set and enforced for all concerned. While questions are being raised about Artest's psychological makeup, few are really searching for answers about the fans who threw things, who punched players, who went onto the court. What, for instance, was Ben's boy thinking in slugging Jones, who obviously was trying to play peacemaker with his arms around Artest?


    "It's hard because, to me, we are the most blessed people in the world that we can do what we do," Jones says. "Not all fans, but a handful, had the same goals we had in life and there's jealousy. They see the way we come to games and practice a couple of hours a day and that's it. They don't see how our bodies hurt. They don't see what we do in the community. They don't hear about guys giving back to the places they came from to make them better."


    His points are valid. Being under a microscope comes with celebrity. Giving back should be a matter of course. But at least some fans believe a form of giving back for a player is taking whatever the fan chooses to dish out. Most consider boos to be severe enough. Others, perhaps wanting to make sure their opinion has registered, raise the ante to crude comments and thrown objects. Artest himself had been hit with items before while on the court.


    "The same way people say there's no way a player can go into the stands, there's no way a fan can throw something at a player," Jones said. "Or at least that's how it should be."


    We can all agree on that. And it is troubling that punishment hasn't appeared to be as swift and severe and publicized for the fans as the players.


    Furthermore, the system seems broken. The Pacers actually asked about how to deal with abusive fans during the annual training camp visit by league officials in October. They were told to tell the referees, who would then alert the arena security, who would then take action.


    I've been told by teams other than the Pacers, though, that they've followed that procedure and, to their knowledge, nothing has ever happened -- the fans weren't removed or confronted.


    "I think it would help players from taking things into their own hands if they knew someone was going to pay a consequence," Jones said. "Even now, though, it's tough to know which way to go."


    This is from Fred Jones, the guy who handled himself as well as can be expected and reaped the most benefits. If he isn't sure he'd do it again the same way, the solution is a little more complex than sending Artest to anger management or beefing up security.


    For guys like Jones, the question is whether the Old Testament rules are still in effect. For everyone's sake, let's hope they aren't.

  • #2
    Re: Bucher Article about Fred from ESPN

    That is a great article, overall the best one I have read since the riot. So many pertinent points.


    I don't question for one moment Fred Jones' toughness both physically and mentally.
    He reminds me of Jope Dumars on the court, somewhat stoic, but underneath there is no one any tougher. FJ is the opposite of soft. And I don't fault him at all for not laying a few fans out while he was in the stands.


    This article should be required reading for everyone.

    Have always thought Ric Buucher was one of the best

    ........ "Maybe he'd feel different if the remaining Pacers believed their suspended teammates had derailed their season or championships hopes. But, says Jones, "We embraced them right away. They're not any less as teammates because of what happened. If anything, we're looking forward to them rejoining us. The league has given us the opportunity to develop a lot of guys who ordinarily wouldn't get much playing time. It's going to be tough for somebody to stop us once we get everybody back, because we're going to have so many guys who played a lot this season."..............................

    I believe Fred echos the thoughts of all the Pacer player



    ....................."Sure they are. It's just that comments about what happened from anywhere outside the Pacers' locker room are given the same respect a surgeon would give to someone who has never held a scalpel, or the same heed a soldier would pay to someone who never has been in combat. Crazy as that may sound, ask yourself this: How much validity do you grant to someone who tells you how you screwed up on your job, if that person isn't in your line of work and doesn't know firsthand what your job entails?


    Players are routinely criticized from the outside, and often inaccurately. Sometimes it's by critics who don't know the game plan, or the game. Sometimes it's for situations off the court before all the details are fully known. In any case, rush-to-judgments are part and parcel in this broadband/videophone/299-channel/reality-TV age.


    The new rules seem to be: Don't wait to find out what really happened. Say it loud and proud and without equivocation.


    Should we really be surprised, then, that Artest or anybody else taking the brunt of all that criticism has tuned out the proselytizing? Or refuses to act as contrite as we'd expect them to?".................................................. .


    That is a great point. If someone outside of my field criticizes me I really don'ty listen to them, they don't know what it is like to be at my desk everyday. By the same token I don't know what it is like to be an NBA player. And to be in that locker room

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bucher Article about Fred from ESPN

      Amen to that.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bucher Article about Fred from ESPN

        Great article.

        So it's Ben's friend, not brother?
        This space for rent.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bucher Article about Fred from ESPN

          I hope Stern and Co. are listening closely. The lack of a crackdown on the Pusston fans is sending the wrong message to class players like Fred Jones: they are still not sure what to do if provoked by fans, and are still considering retaliation into the stands, the one action Stern so strenuously is trying to prevent by dishing out the suspensions.
          "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bucher Article about Fred from ESPN

            Freddie has impressed me alot this year.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bucher Article about Fred from ESPN

              FRED JONES WILL BE THE NEXT REGGIE MILLER. His vertical makes up for his short stature. He can play D even better that REGGIE and he is NOT afraid to take the SHOT!!!!! When 31 retires...... ITS INDIANA JONES all the way.... what a potent back court with him and Jamaal.... I think Harrison will start at C too next year........ WHAT A TEAM even without ronnie artest who i hope is backkk. COuld start jackson in his place. look at the athletes in our starting five THEN WOW!!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bucher Article about Fred from ESPN

                WOWW!!! That sound great!!!!?!*!
                You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bucher Article about Fred from ESPN

                  What's This?????? A Pacer actually getting POSITIVE attention in the national media!! Shocking!!!

                  All sarcasm aside, It's great to see Freddy getting recognition for being a good, decent guy, because he really is a good, decent guy.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bucher Article about Fred from ESPN

                    I am bumping this because I don't want anyone to miss reading this article

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