Yes he is the best coach for this team and can lead us to the ECF's and beyond
No - great guy but in over his coaching experience
Brian Shaw might be the best coach for this team
both Vogel and Shaw are not the right coach for this team and we need to find one this offseason
Find me on the internets @mattiecolin
Read it and weep:
When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%
I don't think Shaw would do much better for us. He's in Vogel's ear all the time already, it seems like it would be a lateral change. The only difference being that he would be expected to change the offense.
I agree with this to a point but the problem is that JOB should never have been back for that season anyway. I suppose there's always the chance Bird had his eyes on someone that wouldn't be available for one more season for some reason, but JOB was a firing waiting to happen by the start of his final season. His expiration date was WAY past time.
So Bird put himself into the position to lose some control of the coaching situation if JOB's season went downhill enough he HAD to be fired (which would've been a miracle had it went any other way by that point), and then if the interim coach did well enough to gain support of players and fans it would be hard to not retain him. And that is exactly what happened.
Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.
"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."
Bird decided he wasn't going to give Vogel the job until some vet coaches were brought in. I would say that was pretty telling on what Bird really thought of coach Vogel. Can't find it but I remember Bird talking about how he saw similarities between Frank and Lawence Frank on how they came up through the ranks. It wasn't a put down, but it didn't seem to be a ringing endorsement either on how to get a coaching position.
You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....
I had no intent of starting a firestorm with this thread. i feel bad for Frank.
the bottom line is this team is not very good.
The issue isn't the players, it's the types of plays they are running. For example one common situation is the roll off the high post across the FT line and down the right side of the lane. The dribbler gets cut off and tries to throw back across the lane to the high post area and it gets stolen. This is not a bad player choice because it happens too often to too many players.
The plays are putting players in bad passing situations or in situations in which the post can be aggressively defended.
People saying that the team is just missing open shots are crazy. There are "I'm comfortable and in rhythm shots" and there are hurried, unexpected, kinda-open shots. This team has about 3-4 quality looks per game. Everything else is a total cluster**** of confusion and poor spacing.
I like Frank and his personality has been good for the team. But the strategy on offense that they are trying to run absolutely sucks and is not putting the talent in their best positions to win.
The team is literally the worst team in the NBA at this point, and the talent is much better than that. Frank needs to figure something out because I don't see how he can have this go to the 25 game point and not start looking over his shoulder at Shaw. Personally I don't see how Frank is going to make it through this year.
It sucks because I hate to see a great person not have success, but there's no point in sugar coating the situation either. Maybe this is just step 1/team 1 of his coaching learning process.
3 scenarios for the draft, starting with my favorite first:
1. Pacers trade up for Justice Winslow
2. Take WCS or Stanley Johnson (this is the theory of a player falling); Make trades (Hibbert/West/others) for additional picks - George Lucas and Rakeem Christmas are players I'd love to have with a late first/early 2nd round
3. Trey Lyles
I'm sure my opinion will change many times before the draft though.
Weren't we always supposed to sign Mike Brown? He's available-
Maybe we should just bring in a new coach every year.
And it doesn't help when your bigs are getting the ball directly in front of the rim, and they can't score.
I've been saying they need to knock down shots, but I've never said that was THE fix. Hitting shots would go a long way to cure the ills of the offense though. There's going to be problems, the offensive system wasn't the best last year and this years system isn't much different, if any.
But what system you're running is irrelevant when you miss 2ft bunny after 2ft bunny. The best offensive system in the world won't fix that problem.
So what DO you think a coach is responsible for? Do you think the offense has shown itself adequate and fails only due to execution? Are our players being used the best they could be within the lineup, and are the offensive sets capable of helping them do their best?
Unless the answer to every one of those questions is a resounding "yes", you HAVE to at least LOOK at the coaching.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...
What's different this season's offense from last season? Other than Danny clearing space on one side of the lane because you can't double of him, nothing that I can see. It's the same poor offense we had last year, the team just seems uncertain and hesitant in finishing the bunnies this season?
And more importantly, I don't think people realize how big of a deal not having Granger is. Particularly when no one other than Lance and Tyler a bit has stepped up their game to try and help the loss.
Sookie for what I can remember I think it was the other way around, the Pacers offense was on the bottom 5 last year, I remember reading articles trying to explain how a team with such a bad offense was winning so much, do you remember the games were the Pacers won even though they had a horrible shooting percentage?
Edit: We were 7th in offensive rating and 9th in defensive rating
Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 11-15-2012 at 03:19 PM.
I have not read through this entire thread, so maybe this has been mentioned. But what we have to figure out is whether the players have tuned Frank out. I find it hard to believe that they have, but stranger things have happened. I don't see evidence that they have. also once you start losing it can snowball