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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Coach Frank Vogel

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  • #46
    Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    Originally posted by RWB View Post
    I don't know but sure seems like Hibbert hasn't been running through any walls for Frank lately.
    What do you want him to do? Obviously he loves playing for Vogel, but he's not going to keep talking about how great he is like when he first took over nearly 2 years ago. People know who Vogel is now.
    Last edited by Trophy; 11-08-2012, 11:34 PM.

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    • #47
      Re: Coach Frank Vogel

      Vogel is only going to get better as a head coach. The guy works tirelessly on getting his team better.

      Heck, he's a very good coach now. Finishing third to be COTY isn't some fluke.

      He's not perfect as no coach is or anyone is. He gets out coached here and there as does every coach on some nights.

      In the end, we win as a team and we lose as a team.

      Some people really need to get a hold of themselves. Slow starts happen to even the best teams in all sports.
      Last edited by Trophy; 11-08-2012, 11:37 PM.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Coach Frank Vogel

        Originally posted by Trophy View Post
        What do you want him to do? Obviously he loves playing for Vogel, but he's not going to keep talking about how great he is like when he first took over nearly 2 years ago. People know who Vogel is now.
        I think he was trying to imply that Hibbert is no longer playing with the fire he sometimes displayed earlier under Vogel's direction - that the relationship isn't motivating him the way it used to.

        I think it's too early to say that. Maybe Roy is just doing his "looks great offensively, goes into a slump," thing in reverse this year.
        "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

        "Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire

        "Everyone's values are defined by what they will tolerate when it is done to others." - William Greider

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        • #49
          Re: Coach Frank Vogel

          Originally posted by gummy View Post
          I think he was trying to imply that Hibbert is no longer playing with the fire he sometimes displayed earlier under Vogel's direction - that the relationship isn't motivating him the way it used to.

          I think it's too early to say that. Maybe Roy is just doing his "looks great offensively, goes into a slump," thing in reverse this year.
          It's definitely on Roy not Vogel. Roy's off to a slow start and is still getting adjusted to the new season. He should brush off the cobwebs soon.

          Roy's still plenty motivated under Vogel. Maybe not like the honeymoon period when he first took over, but simply a coach and player with good chemistry relationship.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Coach Frank Vogel

            Originally posted by Young View Post
            I'm not trying to indicate that Vogel should go or that Shaw should replace him. I am just genuinely curious to know why you hope Brian Shaw leaves and/or think he would be a bad choice to be this team's head coach? Who would you like to see coach this team after Vogel?
            I think Shaw is overhyped because of the Phil Jackson factor. Jackson's assistants were great assistants, but not really good HCs. I'm not inclined to see Shaw any differently until he proves otherwise, preferably someplace else.

            There's another somewhat young (by coaching standards) former NBA player that has been putting in his time and dues as an assistant (in other words, not a Mark Jackson prima donna type) and has been in the running for several HC positions over the past couple of seasons. He's a film junkie and has shown to be a solid x-and-o assistant. He also seems to relate well to players, even troubled ones. Those that have paid attention to me at PD over the past eight years know *exactly* who I'm talking about.

            But if its another year away, that's fine. I'm neither worried about Vogel nor convinced he's a long-term solution. He's been a breath of fresh air when we needed one, and those types of coaches do have value at a particular stage of a team's development.
            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
            And life itself, rushing over me
            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Coach Frank Vogel

              Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post

              There's another somewhat young (by coaching standards) former NBA player that has been putting in his time and dues as an assistant (in other words, not a Mark Jackson prima donna type) and has been in the running for several HC positions over the past couple of seasons. He's a film junkie and has shown to be a solid x-and-o assistant. He also seems to relate well to players, even troubled ones. Those that have paid attention to me at PD over the past eight years know *exactly* who I'm talking about.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Coach Frank Vogel

                Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
                I think Shaw is overhyped because of the Phil Jackson factor. Jackson's assistants were great assistants, but not really good HCs. I'm not inclined to see Shaw any differently until he proves otherwise, preferably someplace else.

                There's another somewhat young (by coaching standards) former NBA player that has been putting in his time and dues as an assistant (in other words, not a Mark Jackson prima donna type) and has been in the running for several HC positions over the past couple of seasons. He's a film junkie and has shown to be a solid x-and-o assistant. He also seems to relate well to players, even troubled ones. Those that have paid attention to me at PD over the past eight years know *exactly* who I'm talking about.

                But if its another year away, that's fine. I'm neither worried about Vogel nor convinced he's a long-term solution. He's been a breath of fresh air when we needed one, and those types of coaches do have value at a particular stage of a team's development.
                Ewing? I really have no idea who, I just know his name has been mentioned before.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Coach Frank Vogel

                  Chuck Person, ChicagoJ likes him.
                  @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Coach Frank Vogel

                    Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post

                    Disagree. I think Vogel can teach these guys how to move, cut, and where to move and cut. And he can demand they do it.
                    He spent the summer trying to teach them to set screens. And the only person who is marginally (and I do mean marginally) improved is Hans.

                    Coaches can teach that stuff. But it's sad that an NBA coach has to teach fundamentals. And I think players are good or bad at it, and we happen to have a team full of players that are bad at moving the ball, moving without the ball, and screening. (Except for Hill with the first two.)

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Coach Frank Vogel

                      Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                      Chuck Person, ChicagoJ likes him.
                      Can't be Rifleman*, he's not a film guy nor an x-and-o guy. Is it Mike Budenholzer? Can't remember.

                      As to Vogel - I thought the Pacers did the right thing by checking out other coaching options before re-upping him last year. That said, now that they've committed to him, it's way too early to punt. Vogel is a young coach, both in years and experience. In a lot of ways, he's still finding his path. Rough patches like this are to be expected.

                      I think the higher expectations this year may be getting to Vogel. He is exhibiting some classic coach-under-pressure behavior. Leaning on his starters/vets too long, throwing out a lot of new lineup combos, etc. Then again, sticking with a set rotation didn't work out so hot last year, did it? And of course Granger being out could throw a spanner in the best-laid plans.

                      I'd like to say that I'm confident Vogel can turn it around, but I'm not. I sure think he deserves a chance to do so though. I wouldn't even entertain the thought of replacing him until after the season at least.

                      Some blame has to go to the FO as well. When we signed Mahinmi and Green, I said at the time that while they did well in limited minutes, it was asking a lot to expect them to take a major rotation role right away. Right now I think we're seeing the growing pains as Mahinmi and Green adjust to far larger roles than what they were used to. I'm enormously disappointed with Augustin though - I really thought he'd have a bigger (positive) impact.

                      * EDIT: So I guess I don't follow Jay's posts that well , a quick search shows that Chuck Person is the guy he's referring to
                      Last edited by wintermute; 11-09-2012, 03:26 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Coach Frank Vogel

                        I wonder how much could be fixed by simply staggering the bench substitutions a little?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Coach Frank Vogel

                          I adore Frank, genuinely do. He's exactly what the players, franchise, and fanbase needed after JOB. It sounds far worse than I mean it, but the guy's an ultimate towel waver. He's more than optimistic, he's a fanboy. I think he's gotten in over his head. I'm not going to hang it all on him because I think our talent's been overrated for a good while now, but there have got to be better schematic coaches.

                          There's no way Frank could "step down" back into an assistant role, but it'd be for the best. But if there's a guy he'd probably do it for it's Jerry Sloan. And Sloan's a great fit.

                          edit: and in absolutely no way am I saying don't give Frank the chance to play out the year and see what happens. but we end up at 40ish wins or something, how you feeling about coming back to Indiana Sloan?
                          Last edited by Heisenberg; 11-09-2012, 04:29 AM.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Coach Frank Vogel

                            Na, I don't mind Vogel, the Pacers offense is just really boring to watch right now. Mostly it's George Hill dribbling :/

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Coach Frank Vogel

                              Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
                              I adore Frank, genuinely do. He's exactly what the players, franchise, and fanbase needed after JOB. It sounds far worse than I mean it, but the guy's an ultimate towel waver. He's more than optimistic, he's a fanboy. I think he's gotten in over his head. I'm not going to hang it all on him because I think our talent's been overrated for a good while now, but there have got to be better schematic coaches.

                              There's no way Frank could "step down" back into an assistant role, but it'd be for the best. But if there's a guy he'd probably do it for it's Jerry Sloan. And Sloan's a great fit.

                              edit: and in absolutely no way am I saying don't give Frank the chance to play out the year and see what happens. but we end up at 40ish wins or something, how you feeling about coming back to Indiana Sloan?
                              We definitely have a team that fits right up Sloan's alley too. I really like Frank, but I think he should be an assistant coach, not a head coach.
                              First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Coach Frank Vogel

                                in some ways i see this as similar to the manning situation. everybody loved 18 but bottom line is this is a business and the owner has to do what is ultimately in the best interests of the Franchise.

                                we cannot go back to the Fieldhouse only selling out half the arena or were not going to have a team before you know it. i like Frank. i liked 18.. would love to have seen him come back, but ultimately it was best for both the Colts and Manning to part ways.

                                i think Frank as ive said below has a bright future. he would be perfect for a rebuilding team or a team that is not really needing a coach.. (ie a Miami, or the pacers from 2000; just a vet group). the Pacers are kinda right there in the middle.


                                the young guys like Hibbert and George need the best coaching the Pacers can give them. I love Franks optimism and hard work but the lack of experience concerns me. we have the right this ship soon.

                                im not even sure Shaw is the answer, i just want someone who has more credentials on his resume. Frank is a young coach.. he will get a shot as an assistant somwhere i believe.

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