View Poll Results: Coach Frank Vogel

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  • Yes he is the best coach for this team and can lead us to the ECF's and beyond

    33 28.70%
  • No - great guy but in over his coaching experience

    25 21.74%
  • Not sure

    23 20.00%
  • Brian Shaw might be the best coach for this team

    30 26.09%
  • both Vogel and Shaw are not the right coach for this team and we need to find one this offseason

    4 3.48%
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Thread: Coach Frank Vogel

  1. #76
    Indiana Pacers Forever Pacer Fan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    I have changed my mind after the game last night and what has transpired in LA.

    Fire Frank, Promote Shaw and Hire Mike Brown as the assistant if Shaw would want him anyways!
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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  3. #77
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    I voted Shaw MIGHT be the best coach, because he MIGHT be the best coach for this team. Then again, Vogel might be too. Right now, Vogel is not the clear best coach.
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  5. #78
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    I want to know the reason for Green getting more minutes than Lance. If Pritchard and Donnie demand this, than I can't blame Vogel.
    David "And One" West

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  7. #79
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    I don't get the love for Shaw. I doubt anything would improve with him as head coach unless the players have already tuned out Vogel, which does not seem to be the case. Vogel isn't the totalitarian that JOB was.

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  9. #80
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    I'm amazed by how divided we are.

  10. #81
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    SSOOOOOOOOOOOO 27% says Vogel should be our coach.... and almost 73% say it shouldn't be Vogel........ not really divided. Most of us don't want Vogel but we don't know what we want, but we know we don't think Vogel is working for us.

    I compare Vogel's popularity here with a guy getting a new girlfriend after his last girl dogged him out. The new one is better than the last one so she looks like goooooolllldddd.


    Example......old gf.....Jim Obrien New gf ...... Frank Vogel So once you escape the old relationship....most things directly following will be welcomed with open arms. Think about it.... Honeymoon is now over. Frank's good but we want better.
    Last edited by sportfireman; 11-10-2012 at 03:14 PM.
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  11. #82
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    SSOOOOOOOOOOOO 27% says Vogel should be our coach.... and almost 73% say it shouldn't be Vogel........ not really divided. Most of us don't want Vogel but we don't know what we want, but we know we don't think Vogel is working for us.

    I compare Vogel's popularity here with a guy getting a new girlfriend after his last girl dogged him out. The new one is better than the last one so she looks like goooooolllldddd.


    Example......old gf.....Jim Obrien New gf ...... Frank Vogel So once you escape the old relationship....most things directly following will be welcomed with open arms. Think about it.... Honeymoon is now over. Frank's good but we want better.
    Don't throw me in with the 73%. I voted not sure, not that I don't want Vogel. Huge difference there.

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  13. #83

    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    Vogel is one of the best coaches in the league, and yes he is the best coach for this team.

  14. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Give me elite players and I can win a Championship.

    Example: Erik Spoelstra, Doc Rivers
    Both spoelstra and rivers have left their personal stamp on their teams.

    Saying they just roll the ball out is ignorant of the jobs they've done so far. Yes, they have elite talent. But that talent plays the way they coach them to play.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  16. #85
    On the Vogel Wagon gummy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I don't get the love for Shaw. I doubt anything would improve with him as head coach unless the players have already tuned out Vogel, which does not seem to be the case. Vogel isn't the totalitarian that JOB was.
    I said something similar in another thread. Brian Shaw is heavily involved in what we are seeing. He is not just another assistant. He is our "associate head coach." Interesting that when Vogel's stock was up many people pointed out that he was being assisted by Brian Shaw, who is awesome. But now that Vogel appears to be stumbling Shaw isn't implicated too? Can't have it both ways, folks.
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  18. #86

    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    SSOOOOOOOOOOOO 27% says Vogel should be our coach.... and almost 73% say it shouldn't be Vogel........ not really divided. Most of us don't want Vogel but we don't know what we want, but we know we don't think Vogel is working for us.

    I compare Vogel's popularity here with a guy getting a new girlfriend after his last girl dogged him out. The new one is better than the last one so she looks like goooooolllldddd.


    Example......old gf.....Jim Obrien New gf ...... Frank Vogel So once you escape the old relationship....most things directly following will be welcomed with open arms. Think about it.... Honeymoon is now over. Frank's good but we want better.
    Which is ridiculous. There's no rationality behind it at all. He's a coach everyone loved 6 games ago. He doesn't get more than 6 games to figure it out?

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  20. #87
    On the Vogel Wagon gummy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    SSOOOOOOOOOOOO 27% says Vogel should be our coach.... and almost 73% say it shouldn't be Vogel........ not really divided. Most of us don't want Vogel but we don't know what we want, but we know we don't think Vogel is working for us.

    I compare Vogel's popularity here with a guy getting a new girlfriend after his last girl dogged him out. The new one is better than the last one so she looks like goooooolllldddd.


    Example......old gf.....Jim Obrien New gf ...... Frank Vogel So once you escape the old relationship....most things directly following will be welcomed with open arms. Think about it.... Honeymoon is now over. Frank's good but we want better.
    Your math is wonky. Not sure does NOT equal it shouldn't be Vogel. It means just what it says. Could be yes to Vogel, could be no, but right now it's we don't know and are in watch and see mode.

    I'm very unhappy with what I am seeing on the court. I am not sure how much of it is on the players and how much of it is on the coaching staff. I am inclined, based on what I saw and read of our camp (where the coaching staff did work on some of the **** we see going wrong out there) that it's more about the players executing.

    Whatever the case, I am definitely not jumping off the Vogel wagon 6 games in. To expand on your analogy - I'm no longer head over heels in love with Frank, but I'm not ready to break-up either. It's just time for counseling.
    Last edited by gummy; 11-10-2012 at 03:37 PM.
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  22. #88
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    I think Vogel just has too much JOB in him. I've not seen any growth in Vogel at all.

    While I do agree he deserves more time, how much time is enough? It's really arbitrary. Someone might feel a season, others might feel 10 games. No one is right or wrong, just your own observation.

    I've been watching this ****** offense for over 3 years now and I've seriously had enough. It's worth noting that some positions struggle here, but why? It's not merely a coincidence that DC played great in NO and great with Dallas, but looked lost here. Same with DJ, and to a smaller extend Price (other than shooting) and TJ Ford played a decent roll off the bench for the Spurs (am I missing anyone?). I think the only reason Hill is succeeding is cause he's more of a 2guard and can shoot the outside shot. But even still, the number of assists for this team are very low. Also, it's usually 3 guys just stand around watching horrible 2 man show. Still can't set good screens/picks. The offense is clunky and we can barely get Hibbert the ball. Pacers are having such a hard time getting easy buckets. I thought we'd have some quick transition buckets, but it almost seems nonexistent.

    The defense has really regressed too. While teams aren't shooting high %'s, I think it's misleading. The Hawks had tons of open looks that they just missed.

    The Pacers are like a boat with a hole in it. They try to stop one leak and then another comes up. Nothing ever seems to get fixed for good.

    I'm also one of those people that think the Pacers played well out of their league last year. Injuries to other teams really propelled this team. But now, the Pacers can't even beat a Timberwolves team without 4 of it's best players. It's just embarrassing.

    What Vogel does so well is staying positive and keeping our guys positive. I think he's a good motivator too. He's a good guy, but that's just not enough. Yeah, management could have done better with their money (And not Mayo - it's already been reported he turned down more money so he could start). I didn't like the DC trade just to get rid of Jones. Green and Ian will honestly be fine. I think DJ won't simply cause our pathetic offense just makes pgs struggle...which then in turns makes others struggle cause they can't get easy looks from our point.

    But who else would coach this team? If at some point Vogel gets the boot, the Pacers need to bring in someone with experience like SVG or Sloan (who else is out there?). I'm inclined to say Sloan cause he's known for making pg pretty great. I also think he'd get this team to continue to focus on D while improving the offense. I guess Walsh can make it just like old times and hire Larry Brown *shudders*.
    Last edited by Sparhawk; 11-10-2012 at 03:53 PM.
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  24. #89
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    The fans forced Bird's hand and that made him fire JOB when he didn't want to do that. He wanted to finish that season with JOB and then bring in a hot assistant coach the next year. Instead, Vogel go the job in an interim basis but the team came around and that forced Bird to hire Vogel, something he never wanted to do..... The result was already written. Vogel would go into some losing streak and he would be quickly replaced. In this case, I think Shaw gets the job and I think he might have gotten it if Bird had been able to follow his original plan......

  25. #90
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Which is ridiculous. There's no rationality behind it at all. He's a coach everyone loved 6 games ago. He doesn't get more than 6 games to figure it out?
    This isn't true, I have been complaining about his lack of offense since last season. I can't stand the play calling and his subs. This has been well documented on here. So "everyone" is inaccurate.
    Last edited by Pacer Fan; 11-10-2012 at 06:20 PM.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  26. #91
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    This isn't true, I have been complaining about his lack of offense since last season. I can't stand the play calling and his subs. This has been well documented on here. So "everyone" is inaccurate.
    It may not have been pretty last season, but there's no denying it was effective. As I posted in another topic, Vogel's "smashmouth" offense is built on hitting the offensive glass, getting to the line, and taking care of the ball. We're still good on o-rebs, but turnovers and FTA's have been awful. Have to think that Danny's absence is impacting that quite a bit.

  27. #92
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    I've not seen any growth in Vogel at all.
    On the offensive end I agree, but I think as the season has gone on and he has gotten a better feel for the players he has shown more flexibility in substitutions.

  28. #93
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    Where's the option for he's good but the Pacer's aren't near good enough to make the finals anyways?

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  30. #94
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    The fans forced Bird's hand and that made him fire JOB when he didn't want to do that. He wanted to finish that season with JOB and then bring in a hot assistant coach the next year. Instead, Vogel go the job in an interim basis but the team came around and that forced Bird to hire Vogel, something he never wanted to do..... The result was already written. Vogel would go into some losing streak and he would be quickly replaced. In this case, I think Shaw gets the job and I think he might have gotten it if Bird had been able to follow his original plan......
    You can blame Jim for that. Bird appeared willing to let Jim lose all the games. But rightly so, Bird was not going to allow Jim to attack and blame the players for his own failures.

  31. #95
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    how long before the granger injury excuse becomes unacceptable.

  32. #96
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    how long before the granger injury excuse becomes unacceptable.
    We lost to Charlotte and Toronto at home without their best player. The excuse is already unacceptable IMHO
    David "And One" West

  33. #97
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    Vogel was smart for realizing how important it is to get good looks near the basket, and get to the line. However, after having a full offseason, we all thought he'd actually install a system that lead to actual good offense. The PnR, cuts, layups, transition points, the type of things that any good offense has.

    Yet he never did that.

    On top of that, there has always been some questions I've had about Vogel, that I thought he may figure out, but were major issues.

    First off, in the playoffs against the Bulls in two late games he decided to pull Paul George and put DJ on Rose. Just an absolutely inexplicable decision. We of course lost both games when Rose scored with less than a minute in regulation. Seems like not a big deal, but it is important that a coach realizes each and everything he should do to maximize the talent he has.

    Next, I was excited when Vogel was smart with limiting minutes during the regular season last year. I thought everyone would be well rested. However, he got to the playoffs and continued with the minutes when his starters should have been playing 40+. That was a brutal mistake that without a doubt led to less wins.

    Bring it to this season, and you look at the Pacers offensive system and it is a disaster. ****, last year it was a disaster too but we let it go because we thought Vogel never had a chance to implement his own offensive game plan. That was true. The Pacers weren't the only ones that looked like a disaster on offense last season. Everyone did really. Except the Spurs. Yet this season nothing changed. There is no system. Only dribble down and throw it down low for an isolation. Isolation basketball is HORRIBLE basketball!!

    Edit- by the way I think Vogels horrible offense is the sole reason Green has been playing horrible. Green should be getting open outside looks, tons of transition points, and points off of cuts all day long. Our offense doesn't do that though so Green is now a completely ineffective asset.

    No one on this team is being used correctly. The offense is an absolute disaster, and the blame should go squarely on Vogels struggles. Now I'm not saying he can't coach either. Because if he had the right people around him it wouldn't matter that X's and O's aren't his thing. However, as the coaching staff stands this is a disaster.
    Last edited by mattie; 11-14-2012 at 12:49 AM.
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  34. #98
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    We need to do what the Lakers did and fire Vogel and make Shaw the HC. He is going to be courted by a lot of teams next season and get's a lot of credibility from other players. We shouldn't miss our chance and make him the HC. Vogel has a horrible offense. Vogel was good when he first took over this team cause of his passion but honeymoon is over.

  35. #99
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    How do we know Shaw is any good tho?

    personally i hope we move heaven and earth and get Jerry Sloan here
    Counting down the days untill DJ Augustin's contract expires.

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  37. #100
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coach Frank Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnotiq View Post
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    How do we know Shaw is any good tho?

    personally i hope we move heaven and earth and get Jerry Sloan here
    That'd be excellent.
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