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Thread: Hawks/Pacers postgame

  1. #101

    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    Ring ring ring. This is your wake up call Hibbert. You are being paid like a big time player how about playing like one! Sorry, if I hurt your fragile mental feelings with my post, but you need to start earning your salary. You know, the one your agent duped Walsh into signing off on.

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  3. #102
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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    Not sure if you're being serious or sarcastic. It's obviously the coaching. He had perhaps the worst assemblage of talent in NBA history around him last year and still managed to look decent. He's got much better talent (on paper) around him now but that doesn't really mean much when they run you out there with the entire 2nd unit and give you horrible playcalls.

    Anyway, I like how people are closing the door on Green, Augustin, etc when our returning starters (West excluded) have been so pathetic. Sure, blame the new guys. It's not their fault Paul George averages more turnovers than free throw attempts (is this real life? who does that?), not their fault George Hill had 2 of the worst turnovers I've seen in a game so far this season in the 1st half (to his credit, he made up for it with his offense and he's basically still in preseason mode since he was hurt). Not their fault Big Money Roy is a single digit scoring machine who shoots 6 foot hook shots and never contests a jumper. Not their fault West lights it up but then doesn't touch the ball after he returns from the bench. Not their fault Paul George is a 6'10 SG who routinely passes the ball when he's being guarded by a point guard, or that he's afraid of the basket. Sure the bench has been playing poorly, but they're put in a position to fail.
    Def coaching. The Pacers are where pgs go to die.
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  4. #103

    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by clownskull View Post
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    that and the whole double overtime game too. i don't remember if vogel brought in any fresh legs in that time either- i don't think he did. several of our starters in that game played nearly 48 minutes that night.

    Vogel played the starters except Stepnenson for Green in the 4th and both OT's. Those 5 guys were absolutely gassed. I was surprised they won the game.

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  6. #104
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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    I don't care if he's hurt, Danny is still the face of this franchise. Roy does not deserve that title.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  8. #105

    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    The Pacers are where pgs go to die.

    Makes one wonder if that isn't a valid statement.

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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    I haven't read this thread yet, had to take a walk so pissed at how awful we are. Fact number 1 of max contracts: if your best reason for giving a max contract is: You have to do it. It's a bad contract. Period. You've already called it a bad contract. People never argued for Hibbert because he's a perennial all star first. They didn't argue for him because he's a dominant performer first. Sure, his fans would make those arguments EVENTUALLY, but the first argument was always, "you have to match." Interestingly the second argument was, "the community loves him!"

    Weird how neither of those arguments say anything about his basketball ability.

    Hibbert is really, really tall. He'll always make a defensive impact. He isn't a complete schlub. Never in his career has he shown that he won't vanish on offense. That he is capable of taking a game over. That he is dominant. Fact is, we overpaid, and that's going to hurt us a long time. Overpaid for Hill too, which will also hurt us - no one has ever given a good reason for rushing to sign a RFA to a 40M dollar offer competing against... no one. Oh well. It's spilled milk now, Granger is out and two of our next 3 best players are overpaid. Not sure we can even expect more than to hang around the 7-8 seed. If that.

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  11. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Def coaching. The Pacers are where pgs go to die.
    i was looking at colison to see how he is doing and wow- he IS starting to look like the guy we traded for now that he is gone. putting up some impressive numbers. then augustin was doing well and then he comes here and now he is looking pretty bad. and i have noticed that although granger is out, p.g. has taken over the role of volume chucker. besides the 1st game where he didn't take a single 3, he has taken about 50% of his shots from downtown (not liking that much). at some point one must look at what system the coach is running (if there is one)
    i just don't see anything that looks like plays after timeouts were drawn up with any reason or purpose with what i keep seeing. either players routinely go rogue and ignore him or there isn't much of a real plan.
    i have joined the suspects of vogel. i am skeptical he can get the job done. he is going to have to impress me soon or i will be among those who would be fine to let him walk after this year.

  12. #108
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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by clownskull View Post
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    i was looking at colison to see how he is doing and wow- he IS starting to look like the guy we traded for now that he is gone. putting up some impressive numbers. then augustin was doing well and then he comes here and now he is looking pretty bad. and i have noticed that although granger is out, p.g. has taken over the role of volume chucker. besides the 1st game where he didn't take a single 3, he has taken about 50% of his shots from downtown (not liking that much). at some point one must look at what system the coach is running (if there is one)
    i just don't see anything that looks like plays after timeouts were drawn up with any reason or purpose with what i keep seeing. either players routinely go rogue and ignore him or there isn't much of a real plan.
    i have joined the suspects of vogel. i am skeptical he can get the job done. he is going to have to impress me soon or i will be among those who would be fine to let him walk after this year.
    Isn't Vogel just running a version of JOBs system...which proved to not work.
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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    @MikeWellsNBA: Vogel rode Lance too long. He couldn't guard Korver off screens and definitely couldn't guard Teague. Shows lack of faith in bench


    Yep the bench that was upgraded ....

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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    You guys can focus on the bench all you want, but the dude we are paying max money just got us 9,7 and shot 33% from the field. So yeah....He also did this in 37 minutes which is really bad per minute production.

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  16. #111
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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    @MikeWellsNBA: Vogel rode Lance too long. He couldn't guard Korver off screens and definitely couldn't guard Teague. Shows lack of faith in bench

    Yep the bench that was upgraded ....
    It also shows that he doesn't consider Lance one of the Bench guys that he doesn't have any faith in....which is a good thing.
    Last edited by CableKC; 11-08-2012 at 12:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    The team looks lifeless. I feel sick after watching that game. I think it's going to be a very long season.

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  20. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I don't care if he's hurt, Danny is still the face of this franchise. Roy does not deserve that title.
    There is no face of the franchise, and thus our primary problem over the last 8 years.

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  22. #114
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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    I'm still being optimistic, even after the fourth quarter let down we all had to witness. This was a mental lapse tonight. Nothing more. Nothing less. Our offense stinks right now. Roy Hibbert is in a funk. But let me get one thing straight.. I'm absolutely thrilled, in love, and beyond impressed with our level of defense. I don't care what anyone says. I really don't. We didn't make a crucial stop tonight (poor communication between George and West), and we allowed them back in the game. But when can't hit the broad side of a barn with a 22, your defense will suffer. Specially in the 4th quarter. And honestly, our defense during that stretch wasn't absolutely terrible (Korver hit that 3 to put them within 3 with about 4 minutes to go.. they were still down 1 with about 1 minute left).

    Maybe it's rust. Maybe it's coaching kinks. Maybe it's Granger gone. Maybe it's Roy Hibbert's funk. Maybe it's the new bench adjusting. Maybe it's the absence of a signee (ala Pietrus). Or maybe it's Paul George not asserting himself. Either way.. all you naysayers are going to be absolutely dumbfounded once this offense clicks to be paired with this defense we got going on.

  23. #115
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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    My god I haven't posted in almost a year, but everyone needs to back away from the cliff.

    The team's best player is out and almost half the players on the roster are new. NEWS FLASH look at how the Lakers and thunder are playing right now. Look at even how Miami played when they first got the big three together. When teams make a lot of moves they tend to start off fairly slow.

    Are there some valid points being made here, sure, but you are all overreacting like we're playing for Cody Zeller or something. Look it is obvious to me that we overpaid Roy, Vogel isn't showing much offensive strategy, and Lance has probably earned a starting or more significant role than he started with.

    But the bench? Are you guys kidding me!? Lou was horrendous when he first got here, Barbosa couldn't play any defense, and Collison didn't realize half the time that there were other people on the fast break with him, plus he couldn't guard a pick and roll if his life depended on it. Don't get me started on Dahntay. He was the best Pacemate at Bankerslife and that was about all he was worth.

    All I'm getting at is you at least have to give a team 25 games or so to see what they have. At this point do things look iffy? Yeah that's fair, but it really isn't going to get any worse and there have definitely been some positives to build from. Even in the Spurs game they cut a huge lead down going into the half.

    Goosefraba my fellow PDers, I promise you things will get better and the team should be fighting for the 4-6 seed.
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  25. #116
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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    i agree that we have been getting out coached!!! Vogel is a nice guy, but doesnt make adjustments very well and horrible X's and O's

  26. #117

    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Honestly, I don't have any idea why Augustin is so bad here in Indy but pretty decent on the Bobcats. The Bobcats Starting Lineup can't be any worse then the Pacers 2nd unit
    He was pretty bad in Charlotte too, despite his stats. It's still early, but on a fundamental level we had a pretty bad offseason. If our bench keeps playing like this it would be one of our worst offseasons ever but I think we'll come around.

    We'll eventually play better but we're bad right now. Hibbert improved so much on his moves that I think he'll have his best season, despite this terribly slow start. I know he was offended over the offseason by a reporter asking him if he was out of shape, but I have to wonder now. He looks really out of shape. I know he highly publicized his MMA workouts, and there's really no replacement for actual games, but this looks like the worst shape he's been in since year 2.

    I've had my Sam Young fix. I'm ready to see Lance in with the starters, who all played better when Lance was in the mix.

    George Hill shoots way, way, way too many three pointers. He's a really good shooter but he's too talented with his mid-range to let it go to waste. It doesn't appear as exaggerated because he's a wing player, but it's just as frustrating as watching Josh Smith of years past jack up a bunch of threes when he's clearly a much better player inside the arc.

    We'll get better pretty soon, but everyones' reasoning for freaking out right now is justified.

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  28. #118
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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    Why is everyone going after Vogel?! It's obvious the team was downgraded by the front office. It's been evident since the first 3 games. we all thought this after the moves happened intially but the Pacer's propaganda made us believe otherwise. We didn't want to spend money to get better... OJ Mayo, Courtney Lee etc. We made small town moves and we get **** results.


    Larry birds not coming back to this ****...
    because our offense sucks and it's vogel's fault. he wouldn't be able to draw a play even if his life depends on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    I can still see posters in a few months saying........"be patient.......it's only been 50 games". LOL
    definitely.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    By the way what are the Pacers going to do with all those long term contracts if it doesn't work out? are we gonna have to wait until they expired?
    i don't think we have other option. with the way they play i don't see a team getting them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    I haven't read this thread yet, had to take a walk so pissed at how awful we are. Fact number 1 of max contracts: if your best reason for giving a max contract is: You have to do it. It's a bad contract. Period. You've already called it a bad contract. People never argued for Hibbert because he's a perennial all star first. They didn't argue for him because he's a dominant performer first. Sure, his fans would make those arguments EVENTUALLY, but the first argument was always, "you have to match." Interestingly the second argument was, "the community loves him!"

    Weird how neither of those arguments say anything about his basketball ability.

    Hibbert is really, really tall. He'll always make a defensive impact. He isn't a complete schlub. Never in his career has he shown that he won't vanish on offense. That he is capable of taking a game over. That he is dominant. Fact is, we overpaid, and that's going to hurt us a long time. Overpaid for Hill too, which will also hurt us - no one has ever given a good reason for rushing to sign a RFA to a 40M dollar offer competing against... no one. Oh well. It's spilled milk now, Granger is out and two of our next 3 best players are overpaid. Not sure we can even expect more than to hang around the 7-8 seed. If that.
    so true.

  29. #119
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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    Gerald Green makes the most stupid passes. Meh!

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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Trust me I've been saying the same thing for a long time, my thinking at the time was that I thought they were opening space for a guy like Brand or Scola and as we know nothing happened
    I agree with this post per se, but am I wrong in saying that Scola and Brand actually would replace two players that are actually performing for us--West and Hans?
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I agree with this post per se, but am I wrong in saying that Scola and Brand actually would replace two players that are actually performing for us--West and Hans?
    The idea was for either one of them to play in the place of Mahinmi.

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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The idea was for either one of them to play in the place of Mahinmi.
    Brand I can see. Isn't Scola a 4?
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  33. #123
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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    You guys calling for Lou Amoundson back, and being serious about it.

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  35. #124
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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    Is there any place that regularly posts videos of after game locker room interviews? I watch all my games on LP, and they seem to have a personal vendetta against the Indy announcers so I don't even get in-game player interviews. I mean 0 for 5 on the season? Really? Last season they were usually up on Pacers.com, but they seem to have completely reworked their staff and the site just sucks right now.

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  37. #125
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    Default Re: Hawks/Pacers postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by xtacy View Post
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    because our offense sucks and it's vogel's fault. he wouldn't be able to draw a play even if his life depends on it.
    At this point I agree to an extent (You don't draw new plays in a game, you alter existing ones - but I don't think we have effective existing ones).

    To be fair, though, if he DID draw a play, we'd probably brick the shot.
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