I agree. I almost wanna take a vaca from PD for a while. I can't believe this ****. It's all doom and gloom and were 2-1
"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel
"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca
I miss Fesenko's meme catchphrases. /tear
You know what is nice about our backup bigs? They are number 2 and number 3 in free throw shooting percentage, and have the best points per shot rating at 1.7 and 1.5 on the team.
I wonder if we took too much for granted in the preseason, and the early chemistry is suffering for it.
We didn't lose anyone who either didn't deserve to be replaced, or wasn't able to be replaced. After three games isn't the right time to complain about missing some bench players.(DC not included--but the front office committed to Hill)
By the numbers
Last season's bench:
DC: 10pts, 3 rebs, 5 assts, 44% shooting
Barbosa: 9pts, 2 rebs, 1 asst 38% shooting
D. Jones: 5pts, 2 rebs, 1 asst, 40% shooting
Lou: 3 pts, 3 rebs, .7 blk, 43% shooting
This season's bench
DJ: 4pts, 2 rebs, 3 assts, 20% shooting
Green: 10 pts, 3 rebs, 1assts, 39% shooting
Ian: 4pts, 5 rebs, 1 blk, 20% shooting
Obviously numbers dont tell all, but these 3 guys have played about as poorly as one could play, and their numbers are STILL comparable to our bench players last season. DC was our starter for most of the year, but when he was coming off the bench, he averaged 4pts and assists in the reg season coming off injury, and 9pts and 3assts in the playoffs, so that production is being matched by Lance.
I highly doubt that Ian and DJ will shoot 20% the rest of the season. And Green showed us offensively what he's capable of against the Kings.
At this point this year's players are at a disadvantage as one game can radically skew the stats.
Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.
- Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
- Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
- Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.
Enjoy your time at PD!
Given the team's needs, I like the new players. Ian is an important big that we lacked. He adds presence that we lacked with Lou in there. Green is better than Barbosa and with more development may be quite good notwithstanding the first two stinkers.
DC is better than Augustin but given some time we may find that Augustin is a better fit with the bench.
Don't you believe that is an extreme oversimplification? I realize that there are starters, then there are bench players. But it does not matter whether you are acquiring a starter or a bench player, you aren't just plugging and playing, you are looking for something specific, something that performs or better or at least fits better than what you already have.
And that is what I believe you are overlooking.
On the surface, we dumped DJones and acquired Green. I really liked DJones's defensive abilities and his occasional offensive explosion, but I believe Green brings something that DJones did not have. And that is extremely good quickness, the ability to create his own shot and an ability to explode to the basket. Although he is not showing it just yet, I believe Green will also eventually prove to be a much more consistent shooter than DJones on the perimeter. As much as I liked DJones, this will not prove to be a wash.
This same trade also was able to net us Ian, who provides a stabilizing force defensively in the post for the second unit. I also liked Lou quite a bit, mostly due to his motor, but I don't even think it is debatable how much better the defense of our second unit will be by switching Ian for Lou.
I think DJ is struggling a bit right now, but I am more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt by granting him a little time to learn to mesh better with his teammates.
We are scrambling a little bit right now due to Granger's absence. And I think that not only leads to some of the instability in the starting unit, but also in the second unit as well. His absence does lead to Green and Lance getting greater opportunities though, and I am hopeful that will pay off big dividends for us later in the season.
The important point is that, although on the surface we may have just swapped our bench players for other bench players, the pieces we now have in the second unit do a better job of matching our the needs that we had in the second unit. That being better defense and scoring in the post, a better distributor and a scorer that is able to create, score from the perimeter and get to the rim.
To me, the only advantages that last year's team had over this year's team was better chemistry and a healthy Granger.
I don't believe that we are performing as well as we should be, but I also think that we need a bit more time to form better chemistry. It will come.
You gotta remember PG is prolly the hardest position to adapt to a new team. Considering they run the offense and do most of the passing. Give dj some time to gain some chemistry and a lot of you will be surprised. Collison was good at scoring but that's not what we needed. Especially when it comes to re sign him.
That said, I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little concerned about our new bench. Maybe it will look better when (if?) Granger comes back, but Green and Mahinmi have been a little disappointing through three games.
Right now....after 3 games ......I only see it this way:
DJ ( so far ) << Collison
Young > Inferno ( for locker room purposes and cuz I think that Young is more versatile )
Lance 2012 > Lance 2011
Hans 2012 ~ Hans 2011
Green ( so far ) ~ Barbosa
Mahinmi >> Lou
Overall, I think that the 2nd unit is better....but clearly....the backup PG spot is not so good. But I think that DJ and Green will get better as the season progresses.
Really OT.....but IMHO...if DJ isn't the answer as the backup PG.....I think that the Pacers should go after Jarrett Jack in the 2013-2014 offseason as the backup PG.
Last edited by CableKC; 11-04-2012 at 11:59 PM.
Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.
1) This post of yours is absolutely an overreaction.
2) I never said your opinion was an overreaction. I said your opinion can be an overreaction. So can my opinion. So can anyone's opinion.
3) Did you even read the rest of my post, or did you just stop after the first sentence? Because if you had actually read it, you would see that I more or less agree with you about the bench.
I am not a big fan of Darren Collison, but gawwwd... I'd rather have him out there than DJ. I wouldn't mind seeing them give Ben a shot soon.
Green looks like a rookie, where Djones was a solid vet, you knew what you were going to get with him. He was a floor leader on defense and that is hard to replace. I have no idea what Green will do at any given moment. Hopefully it doesn't involve difficult passes.
I like Mahinmi. Very happy with him on the team.
That said, lets let em stew in the pot a bit, maybe things will smooth out.
oh look, the real vnzla is back again.
barbosa was 6th man of the year half a decade ago.
dahntay is absolutely NOT one of the best defenders in the nba. sure he draws charges here and there, but you could say that about a half a dozen different bench players in the league.
Last edited by Frostwolf; 11-05-2012 at 12:09 AM.