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    Member presto123's Avatar
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    Default Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    I hope this changes and I realize it's early but right now I'm pining for Darren Collison back. I miss the energy and intensity of Dahntay Jones. Same with Lou Amundson. I think I would take him at this point over Mahinmi.Barbosa over Green? You bet. I was excited about the changes but so far I see a step backwards. I'll get back to you a month or two from now but I am definitely disappointed at this point.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Disagree

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller_time04 View Post
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    Disagree
    We'll see. I will remind you of your opinion a month from now

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    We'll see. I will remind you of your opinion a month from now
    That cuts both ways.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    You knew exactly what to expect from them so it's hard to be disappointed. Now we have to learn what the new guys can do.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    You knew exactly what to expect from them so it's hard to be disappointed. Now we have to learn what the new guys can do.
    I didn't know exactly what to expect. To tell you the truth I knew very little about Mahinmi or Green for that matter. I always liked what I saw out of Augustine but so far he has been kind of meh.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    I meant that you knew what to expect from our old players. We don't have a good grasp of the limitations of the new players, so anything they can't do is new to us.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Collison is the only player I even come close to thinking about agreeing with. Barbosa was decent for scoring but I think green is much more efficient. And plays way better defense. Yah he's had some bad games, but he had a killer pre season and is getting better every game. Ian also had a good preseason and I could tell he's way better than Lou because they played against each other and it was obvious. His height just gives him too much of an advantage and he has a way better offensive game.

    Collison and dj on the other hand I have no clue yet. I'm still waiting on dj to gel with the team and show what he can do. But even so we couldn't afford Darren eventually and we needed to pick between hill And him and I think we made the right choice.

    Give them some more time. Ppl take a while to adjust to a new team. Even the heat took half of a year to play decent together at first.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller_time04 View Post
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    Collison is the only player I even come close to thinking about agreeing with. . .
    This. I cherry picked your answer for this comment, but I think the Pacers will miss DC. DJones and Amundson are just guys. They do a decent job, but if they are playing heavy minutes, your team has problems. It's kind of the same way I feel about Sam Young. OK player, but his best position is 5th wing in a 4 wing rotation.

    Mahinmi is an improvement, even though he's not off to a good start. Green looks like he might be OK once the Pacers figure out how to best use his skill set. I'd rather have DC than DJ right now, but it's early.

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    can't wait to see this v Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    The players we lost are, or will be, journeymen. The players we gained are, or will be, journeymen. It's a wash. Nothing significant was gained or lost.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    The players we lost are, or will be, journeymen. The players we gained are, or will be, journeymen. It's a wash. Nothing significant was gained or lost.
    That is the truth.... All of that change meant there was minimal improvement if any. I was saying that here and I got hooted down as usual. That is why I think the Pacers will back up just a bit in the East because other teams improved their starters... 48-34 fourth or fifth in the East......

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    The players we lost are, or will be, journeymen. The players we gained are, or will be, journeymen. It's a wash. Nothing significant was gained or lost.
    Yep and at the end of the year we all are going to realize that this off season was a waste of time and money, why give long term contracts to players that are not much of an upgrade? I bet they could have signed Lou and Barbosa for way less.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    The players we lost are, or will be, journeymen. The players we gained are, or will be, journeymen. It's a wash. Nothing significant was gained or lost.
    We spent an awful lot of money to do nothing significant.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    We spent an awful lot of money to do nothing significant.
    The Pacers spent a lot of money to keep what they had with Hibbert and Hill....

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    We spent an awful lot of money to do nothing significant.
    Letting Roy go to the Blazers would have been insignificant, I suppose.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    The players we lost are, or will be, journeymen. The players we gained are, or will be, journeymen. It's a wash. Nothing significant was gained or lost.


    That isn't true. Collison was the Pacers starter for 50 plus games last year only losing his starting PG spot due to an injury. The Pacers had a good record with DC a starter. Is DC not starting in Dallas now? Not to mention Augustin was a starter on the Bobcats last year and under Brown at times with Felton there.

    Your comment about journeyman being replaced by journeyman is misleading, b/c the quality of the journeyman the Pacers got, Green and Mahinmi, are better than the journeyman, Lou and Dahntay, the Pacers lost.

    W/o a doubt the Pacers upgraded their bench with Green, Augustin, and Mahinmi. Unfortunately, the Pacers gave 4 year guaranteed contracts to Green and Mahinmi. IMO, that wasn't a smart move. The last 2 years of the contract should have been Team Options just in case they player didn't work out.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    The players we lost are, or will be, journeymen. The players we gained are, or will be, journeymen. It's a wash. Nothing significant was gained or lost.
    Don't you believe that is an extreme oversimplification? I realize that there are starters, then there are bench players. But it does not matter whether you are acquiring a starter or a bench player, you aren't just plugging and playing, you are looking for something specific, something that performs or better or at least fits better than what you already have.

    And that is what I believe you are overlooking.

    On the surface, we dumped DJones and acquired Green. I really liked DJones's defensive abilities and his occasional offensive explosion, but I believe Green brings something that DJones did not have. And that is extremely good quickness, the ability to create his own shot and an ability to explode to the basket. Although he is not showing it just yet, I believe Green will also eventually prove to be a much more consistent shooter than DJones on the perimeter. As much as I liked DJones, this will not prove to be a wash.

    This same trade also was able to net us Ian, who provides a stabilizing force defensively in the post for the second unit. I also liked Lou quite a bit, mostly due to his motor, but I don't even think it is debatable how much better the defense of our second unit will be by switching Ian for Lou.

    I think DJ is struggling a bit right now, but I am more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt by granting him a little time to learn to mesh better with his teammates.

    We are scrambling a little bit right now due to Granger's absence. And I think that not only leads to some of the instability in the starting unit, but also in the second unit as well. His absence does lead to Green and Lance getting greater opportunities though, and I am hopeful that will pay off big dividends for us later in the season.

    The important point is that, although on the surface we may have just swapped our bench players for other bench players, the pieces we now have in the second unit do a better job of matching our the needs that we had in the second unit. That being better defense and scoring in the post, a better distributor and a scorer that is able to create, score from the perimeter and get to the rim.

    To me, the only advantages that last year's team had over this year's team was better chemistry and a healthy Granger.

    I don't believe that we are performing as well as we should be, but I also think that we need a bit more time to form better chemistry. It will come.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Green is doing ok so far, his outside shooting is a bit streaky but he is doing a pretty good job getting to the rim.

    Mahinmi should be ok in time, I think we've got to work out how to use him properly. His hands aren't great and we keep throwing tough catches at him.

    Augustin looks barely passable on offense and lost out there defensively. Not just his inability to stay in front of his opponent, but poor positioning and awareness.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    New bench guys have been basically detrimental, imo. DJs as bad as billed defensively, shoots a low percent for his career because hes a bad shooter. Greens look scared to play, his first two games were terrible, imo. He really can't handle the ball. Mahimni refused to impose his physical play, he's playing like he has 5 fouls, from the first moment he checks in. I think Lance and Tyler have looked good, but I agree with the OP, so far this has been really bad. I hope its not a case of the grass is greener working against management. To this point, I can't think of one thing that DC doesn't do waaaayyyyyyy better than Augustin. We'll see, its way early , but I'd take DC, DJones, Barbosa, and Lou over this group and give you 10 points in a pick up game.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    I think once the team gets used to each other we will be noticeably better than last year. There is definitely more talent on this team, that's for sure. Yes, it is true that this team does not rely on one player, but not having Danny messes up the way this team works. Having Danny causes the defense to focus more on him which allows for the rest of our starters to get easier shots. Not having him messes a lot of stuff up. The second unit isn't what it should be because Vogel is forced to start Green who wasn't expecting to come in here and start. The guy came off the bench for the lowly Nets last year and is now starting on a playoff team so I think it's natural for him to be kinda nervous or thrown off. He had a solid game last night and I think it will get better as time goes on. We'll probably keep having close games until Danny gets back, but as long as we win more than we lose we should be fine. Once Danny gets back everything should fall into place and everybody will have forgotten about our early struggles. Like people have been saying... all teams struggle with significant roster changes at first. Look at the Heat when they were first assembled, look at the Lakers right now... I think we'll be ok.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    By the numbers

    Last season's bench:
    DC: 10pts, 3 rebs, 5 assts, 44% shooting
    Barbosa: 9pts, 2 rebs, 1 asst 38% shooting
    D. Jones: 5pts, 2 rebs, 1 asst, 40% shooting
    Lou: 3 pts, 3 rebs, .7 blk, 43% shooting


    This season's bench
    DJ: 4pts, 2 rebs, 3 assts, 20% shooting
    Green: 10 pts, 3 rebs, 1assts, 39% shooting
    Ian: 4pts, 5 rebs, 1 blk, 20% shooting


    Obviously numbers dont tell all, but these 3 guys have played about as poorly as one could play, and their numbers are STILL comparable to our bench players last season. DC was our starter for most of the year, but when he was coming off the bench, he averaged 4pts and assists in the reg season coming off injury, and 9pts and 3assts in the playoffs, so that production is being matched by Lance.

    I highly doubt that Ian and DJ will shoot 20% the rest of the season. And Green showed us offensively what he's capable of against the Kings.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    At the very least we were better off with DC. If we had to have Ian and his 4 year deal (which I disagree with), then we should have just signed him. Having DC and Jones would over DJ and Green would have given us a win against the Bobcats. DC was on a 1 year deal for a lot less then the 1 year deal that DJ is on.
    Last night DC put up 18 and 10 assist in 32 minutes against the Cats. I never fall in love with a player during the preseason or summer league. When DJ has his first good game, I'm still not going to be overjoyed. He, Green and Ian have a long way to go to justify their contracts and signings.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    I hope this changes and I realize it's early but right now I'm pining for Darren Collison back. I miss the energy and intensity of Dahntay Jones. Same with Lou Amundson. I think I would take him at this point over Mahinmi.Barbosa over Green? You bet. I was excited about the changes but so far I see a step backwards. I'll get back to you a month or two from now but I am definitely disappointed at this point.
    Right now the Pacers are 2-1 with a win on the road missing their best offensive player.... Folks in Indy expect way too much from their teams and their players......

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    An awful lot of people dismissing the idea, but DC was a starting level point guard that was better than his stats showed because of a poor offense. Now with a coach that puts guys in the best positions to succeed he looks like a stud.

    We lost out because of our coaching, plain and simple. Losing DC was a huge blow.
    Removed link to my website after a PM from Able.

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    Default Re: Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of

    Quote Originally Posted by notque View Post
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    An awful lot of people dismissing the idea, but DC was a starting level point guard that was better than his stats showed because of a poor offense. Now with a coach that puts guys in the best positions to succeed he looks like a stud.

    We lost out because of our coaching, plain and simple. Losing DC was a huge blow.
    One of those coaches you are talking about is one JOB......

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