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Thread: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Al Harrington: They're all three great guys

    Here are some comments from AL.

    http://www.ajc.com/tuesday/content/e...df02e000e.html

    BASKETBALL: Gag order lifted on Pacers brawl
    John Manasso - Staff
    Tuesday, November 23, 2004

    As reaction continued to Friday's brawl between the Indiana Pacers and Detroit Pistons that spilled into the stands and involved fans, members of the Hawks also voiced their views.

    But it was in a much more direct way.

    Forward Al Harrington spent six seasons with Indiana, and one of his best friends is Jermaine O'Neal, who was suspended for 25 games. Harrington spoke to several of his former teammates who were involved.

    Mike Woodson was Detroit's top assistant last season and left a message for coach Larry Brown.

    Last season, Jason Collier was a Hawks teammate of Stephen Jackson, whom he called "a great guy." Jackson was suspended for 30 games for going into the stands and throwing punches.

    "I'm sure if he could take it back, he would," Collier said. "Nobody wants to be out that long."

    With management's gag order lifted, the Hawks spoke Monday of the incident and the penalties issued by NBA commissioner David Stern, some of the toughest in league history. The heaviest went to the Pacers' Ron Artest, who was suspended for the rest of the season --- 73 games.

    Dominique Wilkins, former Hawks star and member of Atlanta Spirit management, was involved in his share of on-court fracases, including the 1986 playoff game in Boston in which teammate Tree Rollins bit Danny Ainge. Nothing spilled into the stands.

    Wilkins seemed to think Stern's punishment would prevent similar incidents in the future.

    "If it doesn't, something's wrong," he said.

    He also was of the opinion that the league does not need to take steps to place barriers between the fans and the court.

    "I don't think the fans need that or deserve that," Wilkins said.

    Harrington said when he spoke to the Indiana players, he didn't ask them about the details of what happened.

    "I just called to see how they were doing," he said. "I didn't want to call them to find out what happened or what they did."

    He said he was hopeful that fans wouldn't judge those players by their actions on that one occasion.

    "I would say, please don't form opinions on what they did," he said. "What happened that night is something that got out of control. All three of those guys I know personally; they're all great guys."

    NBA Players Association executive director Billy Hunter has called some of the suspensions "excessive," and the union likely will appeal some of them.

    "I understand what the commissioner's doing," said Harrington, the Hawks' union representative. "He's trying to protect this league. . . . [Jackson and O'Neal] have got to move on. They've got to serve their time and move on. Next year Ron will have a clean slate. I think they will learn a lot."

  2. #2
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    I'm with all that Al said save one bit: Ron will never have a clean slate again.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    One thing I did not say last night that I wish I would have. From everything I have read Ronnie is a "good guy" off the court. Media people who cover the Pacers, Mark and Slick who ride on the plane with the team all say he is a good guy. Media people in Chicago had good things to say about Ronnie personally.
    Not that this changes anything or really make any difference

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    One thing I did not say last night that I wish I would have. From everything I have read Ronnie is a "good guy" off the court. Media people who cover the Pacers, Mark and Slick who ride on the plane with the team all say he is a good guy. Media people in Chicago had good things to say about Ronnie personally.
    Not that this changes anything or really make any difference
    Yeah, I've heard the same thing. It just backs up the idea (or is it common knowledge now?) that he's mentally ill, or at least something along those lines. He goes from being a nice guy to a semi-crazy guy who does dumb things that don't fit his normal personality.

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Yeah, I've heard the same thing. It just backs up the idea (or is it common knowledge now?) that he's mentally ill, or at least something along those lines. He goes from being a nice guy to a semi-crazy guy who does dumb things that don't fit his normal personality.
    And you studied this case in what capacity ??

    Can we PLEASE stop with this line of arguing, it is ridiculous for people who have no medical or related degree and are without direct knowledge of the person Artest to judge his behaviour as being metally ill or anything closely related.

    The fact that Ron at times acts on primal instincst does not make him sick in any way, it might make him "battle weary" or even a product of his upbringing (aren't we all ) but it does not make him sick or deranged.

    I'm educated, from a well to do background and not to bad off myself, however, if someone hits the right string I will rip your heart or throat out without any consideration for what happens to me, YES at times I AM a primate, though I have that under control most of the time, but I can recall an incident under 2 years ago where I nearly killed a marine (UK) for pushing around two elder gentlemen who run a hotel and pushing around a guest who was unable to defend himself being somewhat small in comparison to the 6"5 marine who later went to Iraq on behalf of the British government.
    When he started to push the older (65 and 62) gents around and flauting his size refusing to leave while hassling the guest, I made him see how relative life and youth can be, so blame me, see if I care

    Am I "crazy"? am i "deranged"? am I a psycho?

    If you ask any of my friends or customers they will all tell you I'm an easy guy, ever helpfull and going way beyond what is expected, that I'm continuously late for appointments but never fail to deliver and that I can be called without complaint at ALL hours of the day.

    in short: we all have our limits, some are shorter then others.

    No amount of money, sense of duty, or lack of upbringing can change that.

    understanding is all that is required

    I'm a pacifist at heart, first and utmost, this however does not mean you can **** on me.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    I just think Ron is very very competitive and gets caught up in the moment during situations.

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    Am I "crazy"? am i "deranged"? am I a psycho?
    I'll vote yes.

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    I think comparing defending people from a bully to chasing after a fan into the stands is way off base.

    As for not having a medical degree, no I don't. But I'm sure the Chicago Bulls have someone(s) who does, and they've said that he has such problems.

    And beyond that, I think it's slapping most of us in the face that something is not right in that man's head.

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Munson
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    I'll vote yes.
    Good thing your judgement has proven below par before this somewhat ill advised statement.

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    I think comparing defending people from a bully to chasing after a fan into the stands is way off base.

    As for not having a medical degree, no I don't. But I'm sure the Chicago Bulls have someone(s) who does, and they've said that he has such problems.

    And beyond that, I think it's slapping most of us in the face that something is not right in that man's head.
    Reacting like a primate in certain circumstances does not mean there's something "wrong" in one's head, but it could also mean that certain "brakes" that society places upon most of us because of our upbringing are less developped.

    A soldier who has seen many a war reacts different to a loud noise at night then a person who has never heard a gunshot.

    Neither of them are crazy, both act on instinct, some developped, some surpressed.

    As an example: last week a head mistress for an all girl school expelled 35 students for "bullying" another student.
    Only 3 really participated in the bullying, however, the school had issued notice several months before the incident that "condoning, or watching/being present without interfering" would be seen as "participating in"

    Parents went to court, the parents lost.

    THAT is a signal you want to give.

    Not watching it happen and say someone is crazy for fighting back!

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    Reacting like a primate in certain circumstances does not mean there's something "wrong" in one's head, but it could also mean that certain "brakes" that society places upon most of us because of our upbringing are less developped.

    A soldier who has seen many a war reacts different to a loud noise at night then a person who has never heard a gunshot.

    Neither of them are crazy, both act on instinct, some developped, some surpressed.
    First, Ron is not a soldier, nor can you jusitfy going after a fan because of upbringing. That may explain it, but it does nothing to excuse it or make it right. I think the two are getting confused. Or it sure comes across that way.

    As an example: last week a head mistress for an all girl school expelled 35 students for "bullying" another student.
    Only 3 really participated in the bullying, however, the school had issued notice several months before the incident that "condoning, or watching/being present without interfering" would be seen as "participating in"

    Parents went to court, the parents lost.

    THAT is a signal you want to give.

    Not watching it happen and say someone is crazy for fighting back!
    Ron was not defending someone from a bully. He was assaulted yes, but he should know what not to do. Not only did he not control himself, but he didn't even run after the right guy. This is not the same as your example.

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    Third, let's not pretend this is an isolated incident. Ron has had several incidents. All revolve around him acting overly aggressive and/or stupid. When a guy does that, and any other time he's a gentle nice guy, something isn't right. Especially since not all of them revolve around being particularly provoked. And like I said, Chicago's doctor(s) said he had a problem before I did. Are you saying they're wrong? They diagnosed him IIRC.

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    And I guess my other question is, why are you being so hyper about this? I'm sure you don't mean to be, but you really come across as jumping down anyone's throat who doesn't excuse the players.

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    And you studied this case in what capacity ??

    Can we PLEASE stop with this line of arguing, it is ridiculous for people who have no medical or related degree and are without direct knowledge of the person Artest to judge his behaviour as being metally ill or anything closely related.

    The fact that Ron at times acts on primal instincst does not make him sick in any way, it might make him "battle weary" or even a product of his upbringing (aren't we all ) but it does not make him sick or deranged.





    You JUST get done telling others to stop offering amatuer psychiatric diagnosis, and then YOU do it.......................







    I'm educated, from a well to do background and not to bad off myself, however, if someone hits the right string I will rip your heart or throat out without any consideration for what happens to me, YES at times I AM a primate, though I have that under control most of the time, but I can recall an incident under 2 years ago where I nearly killed a marine (UK) for pushing around two elder gentlemen who run a hotel and pushing around a guest who was unable to defend himself being somewhat small in comparison to the 6"5 marine who later went to Iraq on behalf of the British government.
    When he started to push the older (65 and 62) gents around and flauting his size refusing to leave while hassling the guest, I made him see how relative life and youth can be, so blame me, see if I care

    Am I "crazy"? am i "deranged"? am I a psycho?

    If you ask any of my friends or customers they will all tell you I'm an easy guy, ever helpfull and going way beyond what is expected, that I'm continuously late for appointments but never fail to deliver and that I can be called without complaint at ALL hours of the day.

    in short: we all have our limits, some are shorter then others.

    No amount of money, sense of duty, or lack of upbringing can change that.

    understanding is all that is required

    I'm a pacifist at heart, first and utmost, this however does not mean you can **** on me.
    And if you do something stupid when you lose it, you will go to jail. If it's bad enough you will go to prison.
    Ron's was stupid enough to get himself justly banned for a whole season. Next time it will DOUBTLESS be for the rest of his career. if you don't consider that reason enough to label someone a few doughnuts short of a dozen, on top of the dozen or more PREVIOUS incidents, how about listening to the guy talk!!!!!!!!

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    Since I have no access to the medical records of the Chicago Bulls nor of those of Ron Artest I can not judge on wheter he was diagnosed with anything to begin with other then hearsay or speculation, both are something that to me is not a ground for any judgement.

    As for actions stemming from background, upbringing or whatever; we are all what the world and our parents have made of us, it influences us in our every day live, what is acceptable to one is unacceptable to the other, but yet we are what we are.

    I am not condoning the actions he took, I agree a suspension is called for, however I disagree with the severity, the process and the appeal options.
    I also disagree with the fact that priors for which he already paid are taken into consideration, he paid that debt, severely, that should be the end of it, though I know it never is.

    I also disagree with the fact that Ron is crazy, as I am no doctor but assume that if that were the case he would not have been accepted as a Pacer and given a 6 year extension last year.

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    I think he makes a good point that regardless of if he did it because he has an illness or not, in any situation, if you do something stupid, you get the consequences for your action. Ron's charing the stands was the single greatest cause of the riot (and no, I'm FAR from letting those moron fans off the hook, but if Ron doesn't go up there, they don't run down to beat him). So regardless of the why, he still screwed up, and got what he probably deserved when you consider that he's tried to go after a fan before (a Pacer fan at Conseco no less) and he's already racked up a list of bad incidents in the league over the past few years.

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    I agree with you able that the way the appeals work is severly messed up. But I don't think with Ron they even have a case, so it's moot.

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    I am no doctor but assume that if that were the case he would not have been accepted as a Pacer and given a 6 year extension last year.
    As to this, I say that it's not an either/or kind of diagnosis. You can have a mental illness without being someone who needs to be put in a padded cell. He had issues, but he wasn't off the deep end nuts either. So what I'm saying is he has a problem, but not such a big one that you immediately don't touch him with a 10 foot pole, especially since at the time he hadn't done most of his incidents yet, including last week, which was the worst he's done. Not to mention because of how good of a player he was, that combined with at the time he hadn't screwed up much yet in Indiana led them to believe it was a smart idea to lock him up long term, and at the time it made total sense; that was before the 2002-03 season, which was his first year with all the big incidents.

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    It's too bad we couldn't get rid of Artest over the summer. What a waste of talent. What a distraction. I don't ever want to see him suit up for the Pacers again. The distractions he brings aren't worth any production he gives on the court.

    It's a shame, he is one of the best players in the NBA. If he had his head on straight, we sure would have something special in him.

    How can anyone support him? It's been 2 years of total crap from him. Stern didn't want to take it anymore. Why give this guy chance after chance after chance? Time to lay the law down. This guy is never going to change his act.

    Obviously those that support him use his production on the court as their reason for supporting him. Well, we won't be seeing anymore from him on the court this season because he can't control himself, so how can anyone really support this guy?

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    I have not been able to figure Ronnie out. But there is some good in him, he is not a complete ogor

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    You put down a 6'5" Marine? You must do pushups or something.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I have not been able to figure Ronnie out. But there is some good in him, he is not a complete ogor
    You're right, he's not.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    I'm one that supports Ron and hopes he will always be a Pacer. Here me out...

    Does anyone think for a minute that Ben Wallace thought to himself (after the perceived hard foul) that "hey, I know I'm going to be suspended, but I think it is worth more to shove Artest in the neck than to be around for the next few games"?

    Doubt Ben ever thought about it. He reacted to a situation. Does it make him mentally ill? No.... Does he know better? Sure he does... both prior to, and after, the incident. He reacted to the moment because he felt he was being personally disrespected.

    Artest was in a similar situation, except with the fans... and just like Ben, he acted badly toward those who were personally disrespecting him. Does it make him mentally ill? No.... Does he know better? Sure he does... both prior to, and after, the incident.

    Ron's problem is that he has no ingrained understanding that NBA fans are off limits, regardless of what they do. If he had this understanding, he would of kept his reactions in check. He actually would of been much better off going after Ben, he just picked on the wrong guy(s). To all this I would say he sorely lacks judgement and has not fully matured. Some take longer than others.

    I would suggest a long suspension (40 games), counceling and anger management classes. Would I suggest this for Ben Wallace? No.... Ben doesn't have a repeated history of this as does Ron. Is Ron capable of reacting positively to what he has (will) learn from any of this in the future? If the improvements he has made in the past are any indication, I would say yes.

    Maybe the issue here is that we differ on what the definition of mental illness is.

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    Talking Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I have not been able to figure Ronnie out. But there is some good in him, I have felt it.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++

    I believe he can be turned from the darkside also Luke(Uncle Buck)


    owl

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    Default Re: Al Harrington: There all three great guys

    Off topic, I was surprised to see Al is the Hawk's union rep. Nice to see him taking more of a leadership role.

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