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Thread: The Grady and Big Joe Show

  1. #26

    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by pacers74 View Post
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    We are without our best player in Granger
    Umm NO. Just because a guys puts up 15+ shots a game at a 41% fg% in order to score 18 doesn't make you a team's best player. It definitely hurts not having Granger in there as it throws off our rotations and Granger is still a fairly decent starter that the opposition has to account for. But Granger is in no way our best player. Arguably not even in our top 3.

    Grady was definitely sipping on some homer juice though. We did look bad the first three quarters. The fact that we were tied at half doesn't thus negate our putrid play. Hill played alright offensively and distributed more and much better than I expected, but he couldn't stick with Lowry at all. Seems to be a common theme with Hill dating back to last postseason when Nelson and Chalmers both gave Hill fits defensively, while Collison could actually stick with his man.

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    It the Raptors end up with 35+ wins, I'd be stunned.

    **Not trying to take away from last night's win. Any win on the road is a good thing but that is still a bad team we beat.**
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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    Umm NO. Just because a guys puts up 15+ shots a game at a 41% fg% in order to score 18 doesn't make you a team's best player. It definitely hurts not having Granger in there as it throws off our rotations and Granger is still a fairly decent starter that the opposition has to account for. But Granger is in no way our best player. Arguably not even in our top 3.

    Grady was definitely sipping on some homer juice though. We did look bad the first three quarters. The fact that we were tied at half doesn't thus negate our putrid play. Hill played alright offensively and distributed more and much better than I expected, but he couldn't stick with Lowry at all. Seems to be a common theme with Hill dating back to last postseason when Nelson and Chalmers both gave Hill fits defensively, while Collison could actually stick with his man.
    A fairly decent starter?! When I hear that phrase, I think of a guy who wouldnt start for most teams in the NBA, and that's just not true about Danny--no matter how much you dont like him.

    Also, much like Nelson and Chalmbers, Lowry was utilizing screens to help him get open to score. We have slow bigs, so if our rotations are even a bit off, that leaves the lane open for quicker PG's. But to dispute that DC is a better defender than Hill, that's just another conversation in itself.

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    A fairly decent starter?! When I hear that phrase, I think of a guy who wouldnt start for most teams in the NBA, and that's just not true about Danny--no matter how much you dont like him.
    I don't think croz is saying that at all, IMO a fairly decent starter would be about 10-15th best player at their position, in other words in the lower top half of all starters at his position. While I think he's more like 6-9th, I don't think croz is saying he's nearly as bad as you think...

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    If not, then I stand corrected. I know he doesn't think very much of DG, so I may have jumped to a conclusion on that one. Lol I still don't think very highly of someone who is a "fairly decent starter in the NBA". Definitely doesn't endorse a player who could prob end up the franchise's all time leading scorer

  6. #31
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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    It definitely hurts not having Granger in there as it throws off our rotations and Granger is still a fairly decent starter that the opposition has to account for. But Granger is in no way our best player. Arguably not even in our top 3.
    Croz, your irrational hatred of Danny has reached a new level.
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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Hill wasn't very good last night, but he also wasn't bad like some are saying.

    Only took 9 shots, 33%, clearly hampered on both ends with the hip. Despite that he played a clean game, 7/1 AST to TO ratio is incredible.

    Scored 6 of his 8 in the last 3 minutes.

    He had a great "finish", but certainly just played "ok" overall. Lowry certainly got the best of him, but Lowry was absolutely ON last night, and is a great PG himself. We don't need Hill to score 15-20 points, we need to him run the offense and feed Hibbert/West and prevent penetration by the PG on defense. He was 2 of 3 last night in that regard.



    Regarding the Raptors, they could contend for a playoff spot. I don't see why everyone thinks they're so bad. Barg's was hurt all of last season, JV wasn't here, Lowry/Calderon is probably one of the best PG combos in the league, DeRozan is a great wing player, Amir Johnson is a solid defender, and Ed Davis is Taj Gibson-like off the bench. Dwayne Casey is a great coach, he's got them playing much better defense. They could definitely steal a spot from NY/Atlanta

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Croz, your irrational hatred of Danny has reached a new level.
    Well if Danny is as good as Green he is not even top 10, take that

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
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    Hill wasn't very good last night, but he also wasn't bad like some are saying.

    Only took 9 shots, 33%, clearly hampered on both ends with the hip. Despite that he played a clean game, 7/1 AST to TO ratio is incredible.

    Scored 6 of his 8 in the last 3 minutes.

    He had a great "finish", but certainly just played "ok" overall. Lowry certainly got the best of him, but Lowry was absolutely ON last night, and is a great PG himself. We don't need Hill to score 15-20 points, we need to him run the offense and feed Hibbert/West and prevent penetration by the PG on defense. He was 2 of 3 last night in that regard.



    Regarding the Raptors, they could contend for a playoff spot. I don't see why everyone thinks they're so bad. Barg's was hurt all of last season, JV wasn't here, Lowry/Calderon is probably one of the best PG combos in the league, DeRozan is a great wing player, Amir Johnson is a solid defender, and Ed Davis is Taj Gibson-like off the bench. Dwayne Casey is a great coach, he's got them playing much better defense. They could definitely steal a spot from NY/Atlanta
    He doesn't have to score 15-20 points but when you score 2 in about 45 minutes thats a big problem and he was a great distributer at the very beginning of the game, but was also a huge reason if not the main reason why we got destroyed in the 3rd quarter. Also Lowry is really good, but he was even better then usual last night, because of Hills D.

    DeRozan is a great wing player?!?!?!
    The Raptors are about as good as the Pacers were with JOB, not bad but not average either... 30-37 wins
    Last edited by TheDavisBrothers; 11-01-2012 at 12:55 PM.

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    It the Raptors end up with 35+ wins, I'd be stunned.

    **Not trying to take away from last night's win. Any win on the road is a good thing but that is still a bad team we beat.**
    I wouldn't call them "bad"... 35 wins isn't bad, that's nearing the middle of the pack, and capable of beating you if you don't take them serious. Which it sort of felt like for large periods of the game last night. DWest took them serious in the 4th, that's for sure.

    I could see them getting to 40ish wins. I've not seen a "bad" team play such energetic defense in awhile. They did keep us to 90 points. I'm not saying they'll be contenders, but the East isn't exactly set in cement, either. I'm just saying that they've got some good young pieces there, and they'll be a force in a year or two if they keep that group mostly intact.
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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Anytime you're as good defensively as the Raptors are, you're going to be tough to beat. Offense comes and goes, good/physical defense is consistent and contagious.

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Anytime you're as good defensively as the Raptors are, you're going to be tough to beat. Offense comes and goes, good/physical defense is consistent and contagious.
    I think you're overrating their D, they are an average defensive team, they were 14/30 in defensive efficency (they were 9th in actual points because they played a slow pace) last year and while they held us to 90 points last night, it wasn't a fast paced game, our starting PG was banged up, and SF was out. While Lowry is an odvious upgrade at point, they also lost their best defender on the team in James Johnson...

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    He doesn't have to score 15-20 points but when you score 2 in about 45 minutes thats a big problem and he was a great distributer at the very beginning of the game, but was also a huge reason if not the main reason why we got destroyed in the 3rd quarter. Also Lowry is really good, but he was even better then usual last night, because of Hills D.

    DeRozan is a great wing player?!?!?!
    The Raptors are about as good as the Pacers were with JOB, not bad but not average either... 30-37 wins
    Yes. Or at least, I should say "Good going on great", if that makes you feel better.

    He's added the 3 to his game, and is a very good player with great written all over him.

    Toronto thinks highly of him, as they just gave him $40M over 4 years.

    Oh, and Lowry made people look bad all year, at least until the injury. He's really good. Averaging 14+ and 7 AST over the past 2 years, and that was in a situation that was less than ideal in Houston.

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
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    Yes. Or at least, I should say "Good going on great", if that makes you feel better.

    He's added the 3 to his game, and is a very good player with great written all over him.

    Toronto thinks highly of him, as they just gave him $40M over 4 years.

    Oh, and Lowry made people look bad all year, at least until the injury. He's really good. Averaging 14+ and 7 AST over the past 2 years, and that was in a situation that was less than ideal in Houston.
    He went from being a horrendous 3p shooter to a really bad 3 p shooter, big deal!
    He is only above average at on thing, finishing at the rim and is a terrible shooter, bad passer, doesn't gel with a team offense, and a mediocre defender/rebounder especially considering his size and athleticism. Toranto overpaid for his flash and will regret his contract...

    And trust me I know how good Lowry is, and he was even better then usual last night...

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    He went from being a horrendous 3p shooter to a really bad 3 p shooter, big deal!
    He is only above average at on thing, finishing at the rim and is a terrible shooter, bad passer, doesn't gel with a team offense, and a mediocre defender/rebounder especially considering his size and athleticism. Toranto overpaid for his flash and will regret his contract...

    And trust me I know how good Lowry is, and he was even better then usual last night...
    He sure d'ed Paul up pretty well after the first quarter.

    I agree with your statement on his finishing ability. Everything else is pretty subjective, so I'll leave you to that.

    My point was that *Toronto is actually a decent team, not as terrible as some think.

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    I think you're overrating their D, they are an average defensive team, they were 14/30 in defensive efficency (they were 9th in actual points because they played a slow pace) last year and while they held us to 90 points last night, it wasn't a fast paced game, our starting PG was banged up, and SF was out. While Lowry is an odvious upgrade at point, they also lost their best defender on the team in James Johnson...
    Never said their defense was great. But they do play good defense, as their points allowed shows. The reason their efficiency rating is lower is because of their tendency to foul. With the additions of Lowry, and JV I'd say they're still a top 10-12 defensive team in the league. Maybe not elite, but a team that has a good defensive mentality.

  18. #42

    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    What on Earth makes you think this is the case?
    the fact that this team now has the pieces to compete for a playoff spot, and if you are competing for the playoffs you probably aren't that bad

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    the fact that this team now has the pieces to compete for a playoff spot, and if you are competing for the playoffs you probably aren't that bad
    There is no way in hell that the Raptors are anywhere close to a playoff spot. Even in the East.
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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    I don't know how good the raptors are going to be, but I was impressed with their defense last night, they played hard. But you cannot judge by the first game. Teams typically start out more even then they end up as the wear and tear of the 82 game grind wears down lesser teams. So the gap between teams right now is a lot less than it will be on January 15th.

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    What on Earth makes you think this is the case?
    Well it's all relative I guess. I think they can compete in the East and will likely finish in the 7-10 spot somewhere.

    Lowry is a very good PG, JV is the first Raptor to ever score a double-double in his debut (and he will likely be a very important focal point for them).... if Bargs stays healthy.... and Demar continues to improve they aren't an awful team by any means.

    2 starters last year, Amir Johnson and Jose Calderon, are coming off the bench now, and I like Ed Davis a lot, so they even have a little depth too.

  24. #46

    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    I hope y'all don't mind me chiming in every now and then. I appreciate that some of you were able to catch the show. 1. Turnovers were a problem throughout the game...the 3rd quarter was when it really came to bite them in the *** because they couldn't score. Just 15 points. The first half wasn't pretty...but (outside of the turnovers and some defensive lapses) it wasn't abysmal.

    Paul George and Gerald Green have to decide from possession to possession who has the green light to attack (I argue that wouldn't be the case if Green worked primarily with the second unit and Young were inserted in the starting lineup). If many felt Danny was taking looks away from Paul...then it's fair to say the same about the Green-George combo. I'm not saying it can't work....just that I would let Green do his thing with a second-unit that I anticipate having some rough nights accumulating points.

    George Hill was worked defensively last night. But you know what made it worse? The help defense. Toronto wisely ran George Hill (who was injured trying to run through a Plumlee screen in practice) through screen after screen after screen. And Hill got little help from his teammates. He'll do a better job fighting through screens as his health improves...but in the interim, he needs some assistance from his bigs. He's a competitor and he showed some stones with the buckets he hit down the stretch.

    West is a man...nothing else to add there.

    Hibbert and Paul had some disappointing stretches. Hibbert in the second half...Paul the last three quarters (though, you have to like his activity on the boards.) Their issues are a conversation for another thread.

    Last thing...many had high hopes for this team, but with Granger out, a step back was inevitable. The question is, "how big of a drop off" and "how quickly can these guys get on the same page and find a groove in Granger's absence". Expectations have to change somewhat when you lose your leading scorer. Roles are being redefined and they have to rely on some new faces. It's no coincidence two of the three turnover leaders were two of the newest members of the team (Though some of Ian's TO's had nothing to do with "chemistry" with his teammates...he was just flat out getting stripped)....and Paul has always been overly "cute" with the basketball....and now he has the ball in his hands a lot more with Danny out. Carelessness is partly to blame...but so is a lack of continuity (Anyone check how many turnovers the Lakers had last night?)

    My co-host went hard blasting the team last night....and there's nothing wrong with that...those were his honest feelings. I was prepared to be critical too, but I felt like he was giving a "June Shannon" description of last night's game....when it was more like a "Tina Fey".... It wasn't sexy, but I can live with it. Ha

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Never said their defense was great. But they do play good defense, as their points allowed shows. The reason their efficiency rating is lower is because of their tendency to foul. With the additions of Lowry, and JV I'd say they're still a top 10-12 defensive team in the league. Maybe not elite, but a team that has a good defensive mentality.
    Fair enough, I can buy that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
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    He sure d'ed Paul up pretty well after the first quarter.

    I agree with your statement on his finishing ability. Everything else is pretty subjective, so I'll leave you to that.

    My point was that *Toronto is actually a decent team, not as terrible as some think.
    Your right it is subjective...
    My point is that Toranto is not at terrible as some think, but also not quite average.
    Either way, I'm done talking about the Raptors lol

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    I still say Toronto is a much better team then they have had the past few seasons. Adding Lowry and JV are good additions. They might not make the playoffs, but they will be competitive this season.

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    There is no way in hell that the Raptors are anywhere close to a playoff spot. Even in the East.
    I agree with you more often than not, but this one we're on opposite ends. I really love Lowry and JV. That's 2 large upgrades at the 2 most important positions. I really like their chances to be sniffing .500 at the end of the year.

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    Default Re: The Grady and Big Joe Show

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    I agree with you more often than not, but this one we're on opposite ends. I really love Lowry and JV. That's 2 large upgrades at the 2 most important positions. I really like their chances to be sniffing .500 at the end of the year.
    Plus, who the heck is "definitely" out of the Raptors reach? Knicks with Amare and 70% and a bunch of old guys? Atlanta? We have no idea what to expect from them.

    Outside of Miami/Indiana/Boston/Philly/Brooklyn, who is a sure thing?

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