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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

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Vogel plans to use D-League this year

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  • #16
    Re: Vogel plans to use D-League this year

    About time, they finally have a place to send Lance to, we are finally going to see him "dominating"
    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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    • #17
      Re: Vogel plans to use D-League this year

      Another thing is, Frank said that in the past rookies have been rotation guys, but not this years group. So with the thinking of him giving starters more PT this year than in the past this fits right in with that, also I think they will be okay, as long as the Pacers give them instruction on what they would like them to focus on during their time at summer league.
      Why so SERIOUS

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      • #18
        Re: Vogel plans to use D-League this year

        Wow, this is an indication of how busy I've been this week that I'm just now seeing this.

        Obviously, and those who have put up with my rants all this time can probably guess, I'm over the moon about this. I don't have time to go Peck on this, or really even throw in a bunch of dancing fruit, but I am very, very, very happy. From the bottom of my heart, thank you Pacers.
        Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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        • #19
          Re: Vogel plans to use D-League this year

          Anytime you have to send your 24 year old first round pick to the D-league, it is probably not a good sign.


          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Vogel plans to use D-League this year

            Originally posted by wintermute View Post
            Regarding coaching, if the Pacers had their own D-League team, they'd have control over the coaching staff. It costs surprisingly little too - under the hybrid system of ownership, the running cost of a D-League team (including salaries) would be less than what they're paying Ben Hansbrough...
            It's really that cheap? If that is the case, every franchise should have their own D-League team.
            "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

            -Lance Stephenson

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            • #21
              Re: Vogel plans to use D-League this year

              Less than what they're paying Ben Hansbrough? So they get to stock concessions, hire ushers, lease or own a venue for free then?


              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Vogel plans to use D-League this year

                Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                Anytime you have to send your 24 year old first round pick to the D-league, it is probably not a good sign.
                I hate to be negative, but I couldn't agree more. Not to harp but we had a chance to potentially get at least 2 or 3 other players (Jones III, Crowder, Jeff Taylor, O'Quinn come to mind) who either had more upside or would have been ready to contribute from day one on cheap, rookie contracts.

                I hope he goes to the D-League and is able to learn some nuances that allows him to grow as a player and come back, ready to contribute on the Pacers.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Vogel plans to use D-League this year

                  Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                  Anytime you have to send your 24 year old first round pick to the D-league, it is probably not a good sign.
                  We used a 1st round pick on a guy who as a 23 year old senior was able to set career highs in minutes, points, rebounds, and blocks per game.

                  Those career highs amounted to 20.5 mpg, 6.6 pts, 7.1 reb, 0.9 blks. In college.

                  You reap what you sow.
                  "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

                  -Lance Stephenson

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                  • #24
                    Re: Vogel plans to use D-League this year

                    Originally posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
                    It's really that cheap? If that is the case, every franchise should have their own D-League team.
                    Good post on this topic from Matt Moore.

                    The Inbounds: It’s time for NBA teams to embrace the D-League future
                    Matt Moore - Aug 30, 2012


                    The 2012-2013 NBA D-League schedule will be announced Thursday to little fanfare and by little fanfare I mean no attention whatsoever. It will be a footnote passed along at the end of columns, random bits tweeted here and there. It will not drive traffic, move the needle, or sell tickets, outside of the occasionally rabid fanbases (and there are are, shockingly, a number of them in the league).

                    But what will be lost in all this hoopla is the complication for teams keeping an eye on their affiliate, if they don’t own their own. From the official release back in Joo-Lie:
                    AUSTIN TOROS (TX)
                    San Antonio Spurs

                    BAKERSFIELD JAM (CA)
                    Atlanta Hawks
                    Los Angeles Clippers
                    Phoenix Suns
                    Toronto Raptors

                    CANTON CHARGE (OH)
                    Cleveland Cavaliers

                    DAKOTA WIZARDS (Bismarck, ND)
                    Golden State Warriors

                    ERIE BAYHAWKS (PA)
                    New York Knicks

                    FORT WAYNE MAD ANTS (IN)
                    Charlotte Bobcats
                    Detroit Pistons
                    Indiana Pacers
                    Milwaukee Bucks

                    IDAHO STAMPEDE (Boise, ID)
                    Portland Trail Blazers

                    IOWA ENERGY (Des Moines, IA)
                    Chicago Bulls
                    Denver Nuggets
                    New Orleans Hornets
                    Washington Wizards

                    LOS ANGELES D-FENDERS (CA)
                    Los Angeles Lakers

                    MAINE RED CLAWS (Portland, ME)
                    Boston Celtics

                    RENO BIGHORNS (NV)
                    Memphis Grizzlies
                    Sacramento Kings
                    Utah Jazz

                    RIO GRANDE VALLEY VIPERS (TX)
                    Houston Rockets

                    SIOUX FALLS SKYFORCE (SD)
                    Miami Heat
                    Minnesota Timberwolves
                    Orlando Magic
                    Philadelphia 76ers

                    SPRINGFIELD ARMOR (MA)
                    Brooklyn Nets

                    TEXAS LEGENDS (Frisco, TX)
                    Dallas Mavericks

                    TULSA 66ERS (OK)
                    Oklahoma City Thunder

                    That’s 19 teams crammed into five affiliates. Now, this is not any sort of failure for the D-League. On the contrary, this is amazing. Eleven teams have one-to-one affiliations with their D-League squad, more than a third of the league. This is nothing short of a miracle, considering that five years ago, there were…two. And this is after the Utah Flash which had a close relationship with the Jazz folded.

                    The league is not coming. It’s here. The D-League is a legitimate part of day-to-day NBA business and more and more teams are figuring out the advantages and how to use the clubs effectively to find and develop talent. This is not the small piece of packaging it’s made out to be by some. The league operates under conditions where so many players with legitimate talent flame out simply because they’re not ready, and simply disappear. Having a development system that’s legitimate will allow for those players to have successful careers in some cases. Even if it’s just a handful of players saved over a decade, isn’t that worth it, both for the lives of the players and for the teams to get return on investment?

                    And yet still, we’ve got 19 teams dragging their feet on this. The D-League has maintained it’s not ready for rapid expansion, that it’s honestly handling the most it can at one time. But it’s not like this situation can’t get resolved pretty quickly. It just involves the team throwing some money to get this thing moving. You can set up and establish a D-League team for less than it costs to pay Johan Petro for a year. Think about that. There are costs to run the club, which is going to be more than having a player on squad. But there’s also the hybrid option, first pioneered by the Houston Rockets, who own their affiliate, the Rio Grande Valley Vipers’, basketball operations, while local ownership owns the rest of the team. It’s a cost-effective model for both sides that allows the NBA team to maintain complete control over coaching, training, equipment, and direction.

                    Why are the Wizards, who have been using D-League talent to fill out their roster for years, not a single-affiliate? Why are the Heat, with gobs and gobs of money, not setting up somewhere to send Norris Cole to work on his patience? Don’t the Clippers need a joint to send players for rehab, for crying out loud?

                    The more broke teams, you can understand. Charlotte needs every penny it can get.

                    But we’re approaching a breaking point. The quality of these teams could go up if multiple teams start sending down second-round picks. It could be great for the league. But it could also cause a mess with four teams with different agendas upset over the direction or minutes being distributed. No one’s going to freak out, this is the D-League we’re talking about. But teams should take how their players are treated seriously, how that development goes seriously.

                    We’re rapidly getting to that point. The league has been very careful not to expand during the shaky economy, nor before nor after the lockout. President Dan Reed has been about as considerate as you can be with growing the league at a steady rate without ballooning too fast. But at this point, it’s beyond the D-League’s control. They’ve built a respectable system that provides talent the league is using. They’ve gotten some of the best teams in the league to buy-in. (The Spurs, the Mavericks, the Lakers, the Thunder, the Knicks, the Nets all have their own affiliate.) At some point the rest of the league needs to get its head out of the sand and quit holding up progress.

                    The NBA D-League needs to become a true minor-league system, a goal its had since its inception, and one that it’s moved much closer to over the past half-decade. But to get there, the rest of the league has to get over its phobia and understand the potential that’s there. It doesn’t need to be a joke for a top-ten pick to get sent down. If it’s a project big man (*COUGH* ANDRE DRUMMOND* COUGH*) spending a year dominating inferior competition and working on his strength training might be better than throwing him to the wolves right off the bat. The league needs to wake up and realize what’s happening and quit allowing its competition to run circles around it. You’ve got assets. Use them.

                    (Pro Basketball Talk)
                    Last edited by avoidingtheclowns; 11-02-2012, 03:06 PM.
                    This is the darkest timeline.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Vogel plans to use D-League this year

                      Originally posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
                      It's really that cheap? If that is the case, every franchise should have their own D-League team.
                      Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                      Less than what they're paying Ben Hansbrough? So they get to stock concessions, hire ushers, lease or own a venue for free then?
                      As atc's link points out, there's the hybrid option where an NBA team pays for (and gets complete control of) basketball operations, while local ownership takes care of the rest. Any profits go to the actual owners - for the NBA team it's a straight up cost.

                      How much you ask? According to Marc Stein in 2009, it's at most $400k per year. The NBA minimum salary is $474k, so that's the least amount that Ben H. will make (if he doesn't get cut anyway).

                      Here's Stein's article: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailyd...dime-090307-08

                      And relevant portion:

                      According to a league memo obtained by ESPN.com, NBA teams were informed Thursday that the 2009-10 season in the D-League will introduce what will be known as the "hybrid affiliation."

                      The new policy will enable an NBA team to assume "full control over all basketball operations of its D-League affiliate, including coaching and player personnel decisions." In return, NBA clubs must make a three-year commitment to covering the expenses for the affiliate's basketball operations, which includes player salaries, paying for the coaching and training staffs and absorbing all travel costs.

                      The NBA estimates the annual cost of those expenses to be $300,000 to $400,000 annually. Which equates to the single-season amount NBA teams spend on a minimum-salaried rookie.

                      The cost involved in running all levels of a D-League franchise, by contrast, was estimated by one Western Conference executive as "a million-dollar loss for one year."

                      So it sounds like a decent bargain.
                      The highest paid D-League players make something like $30k, which explains the relative low cost of running a D-League team.

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