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Thread: Stern to retire

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Stern to retire

    Mixed feelings about Stern.

    Hated the unfair brawl suspensions which did not acknowledge the extent of Detroit's role. That alone will always effect my opinion.

    Marketing star players got the NBA out of the doldrums, but it is to the detriment of the league now. The NBA has "graduated" from that type of marketing IMHO. I would love to see more marketing of teams rather than players. It won't take place overnight, but eventually that will lead at least somewhat to less people showing up to Bankers Life in Lebron jerseys when they've never been within 300 miles of South Beach in their lives. Seeing those lame 16 year old fan boys drives me crazy.

    I still say one of the most positive things Stern did was institute the dress code, but I won't say why since it gets political.

    Hope to see a cap structure that promotes real parity some day as well.

    I don't expect any real changes from Silver. Guy has been Stern's chosen person for years. I think its more likely that the new North Korea leader will open up. Expect more of the same people. Different guy, same regime.
    Last edited by idioteque; 10-25-2012 at 09:26 PM.

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: Stern to retire

    Hopefully the Silver takeover of the NBA from the draconian Stern will have the same impact on the NBA that the Vogel takeover of the Pacers from the draconian JOB had on the Pacers.

    I am very serious about that. IMO, it is time for fresh eyes and current day thinking to fix the business model that is currently nearly broken. Casual fans have been the target of the NBA for a very long time now, and that is likely continuing to eat away at the core fans having the desire to spend the money required to attend games due to the combination of high pricing and a continued depressed economy in much of the nation. Casual fans attend occasional games on cheap tickets, but mostly become eyeballs on their increasingly large screens at home. Many core fans still attend games, but I suspect that more have become tired of spending lots of money to see dance routines by the cheer squads, various trampoline dunk squads, and halftime shows that are not nearly as impressive as they once were when compared to the cost of tickets.

    OK, I will be the one to bring it back up.

    I think that Stern has done an OK job overall, but I still believe that his handling of both the Pacers and the Pistons with respect to the brawl was an abomination, and that the penalties handed out should have been about halfway between what the Pacers got and what the Pistons got, with both franchises suffering nearly equal penalties without destroying the competitive level of either for the entire season. A mere threat of the death sentence that was handed out to the Pacers would have gone a very long way compared to actually pulling the trigger, especially if the Pistons had received more than a love tap on the behind like they got.

    So for this I say good riddance to a commissioner whose actions likely worsened the overall impact of the brawl with respect to fan perception by magnifying its importance by using a borderline nuclear option.

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  5. #53

    Default Re: Stern to retire

    May he rot in hell.

  6. #54

    Default Re: Stern to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramitt View Post
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    May he rot in hell.
    Stay classy

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  8. #55

    Default Re: Stern to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    NFL.
    How many NFL games got cancelled? Not to mention the NFL had a lockout because they were fighting over a growing pie and they each wanted a bigger piece. The NBA had a lockout because small market teams were losing viability.

    In short the NFL didnt need to happen they could have gone on with the previous model of CBA. The NBA couldnt

  9. #56
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stern to retire

    I'm looking forward to a post Stern NBA. He hurt the small market teams IMO and for that reason I'm glad he's gone.

  10. #57
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    Default Re: Stern to retire

    I'm not going to miss this clown. He's been bad for basketball, although he was good for marketing which everyone knew when he got the job he was a marketing lawyer and not a "basketball man".

    He's struggled mightily with the concept of marketing teams, helping co-op SportsCenter into turning professional basketball into a series of one-on-one highlights.

    He's struggled mightily with fairness among the franchises, regardless of market size. Some can argue that he's played the demographics properly, capitalizing on the good fortune of having marquee players (and in his mind, marquee teams) in the largest advertising markets.

    He's diluted the quality of the game itself in favor of what turned into a self-perpetuation economic imbalance. I'm still not sure during the lockout that he really grasped just how tenuous it was for the small-market franchises.

    He served a purpose, at the end of Larry O'Brien's tenure. If he had limited himself to about a six year term (leaving in about 1990), I'd be much happier with him. He did set the league up for a glorious 1990's heyday. Remember, I thought the 3-team NBA of the 1980's was pretty boring. Magic vs. Larry while 20 other teams floundered? That wasn't success. But by 1988 or 1989 several more teams (Portland, Atlanta, Detroit, eventually Cleveland during the regular season and then Jordan's game-5 shot happened, Denver, etc. were challenging the Lakers-Celtics-Sixers evil triangle.

    He's been a big part of the problem, not a part of the solution, for the past 15-20 years or so.

    David, don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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  12. #58
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    Default Re: Stern to retire

    I love David Stern--I am going to miss him. Like any other highly public leader, all of his decisions get scrutinized to the Nth degree. I think he's made some mistakes and overstepped his bounds at times, but all in all he's been the best pro sports commissioner of my lifetime. I think the last 5-7 years he's lost touch a little bit, so I am not too upset to see him step aside, but his legacy, to me, is very positive.

    Anyone else excited for the Adam Silver era? I love that guy. He reminds me of a lovable nerd. In a good way.

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    Default Re: Stern to retire

    ....until the second Silver makes an unfavorable decision, or some referee somewhere makes a controversial call, and then Silver will be the same convenient scapegoat that Stern was.

    My only question is who will Silver's deputy be. I want to know who the next most popular NBA exec will be once Silver moves up. Those second round picks can't draft themselves...

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    Default Re: Stern to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    It's definitely necessary. A change has been very much needed.

    I'm guessing Adam Silver, who I believe would manage the league fairly and maintain parity, to be Stern's successor.

    Based on his interviews, he seems to have a much different approach and mindset than Stern does.
    Could Adam Silver be the NBA's Frank Vogel?
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  17. #61

    Default Re: Stern to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by imbtyler View Post
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    Could Adam Silver be the NBA's Frank Vogel?
    Isn't Frank Vogel the NBA'a Frank Vogel?

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  19. #62
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    Default Re: Stern to retire

    If someone would have told anyone back in 1983 that the NBA Finals someday would get higher TV ratings than the World Series, they would have put that person into a mental hospital. And yet the NBA Finals routinely beats the World series. This year through the first two games of each NBA Finals has outdrawn WS by 25%.

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    Default Re: Stern to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I do wonder if Stern has properly indoctrinated Silver on how to fix games. We wouldn't want the "wrong teams" in the NBA Finals now would we.
    While I will never think the NBA is on the same level as WWE, I find it funny (especially after the Tim D. mess) that people still mock those who question the integrity of the league.

    But that is a thread for another day

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  22. #64
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    Default Re: Stern to retire

    How much of that is because baseball world series viewing figures have dropped by about 20 million (even though the population has grown by about 70 million) since 1983? Still, we've had this argument before, NBA finals ratings have been lower every years since 1998 than they were in 1982. Stern is a first class A-hole who has been horrible for the game for the last 12 years (and I would agree very good for it until about 1997.) Still, I hear the only reason he's leaving is because he got an offer to oversee the building of a death star.
    Danger Zone

  23. #65
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stern to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    If someone would have told anyone back in 1983 that the NBA Finals someday would get higher TV ratings than the World Series, they would have put that person into a mental hospital. And yet the NBA Finals routinely beats the World series. This year through the first two games of each NBA Finals has outdrawn WS by 25%.
    I was a far bigger baseball fan than basketball many years ago. There are several reasons what you describe happened and most of it has nothing to do with David Stern. The strike turned off an entire generation of baseball fans. This wiki is worth reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994%E2...aseball_strike

    I was a huge Reds fan. The Cincinnati Reds were having their best season in over a decade and the strike ended the season in August after following 114 games. They were headed to the world series. Mind you, people followed them religiously not just for those 114 games but for years. It was so bad that I have not looked at a box score in nearly 20 years and the only player I can even name in the league is Derrick Jeter and I don't even know if that's the correct spelling.

    In fact, I am an NBA basketball fan mostly because of the MLB strike.

    Second, our culture has changed. People don't have the patience to watch a slower paced 2 or 3 hour game. Everything today has to be immediate.

    Third, Michael Jordan stood on the shoulders of Larry Bird and Magic Johnson to bring the league to another level. Movies and McJordan burgers brought the league more notoriety.

    Sure, Stern might have made adjustments on top of all that to improve the NBA's TV ratings. But there are a lot of other factors involved.

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    Default Re: Stern to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    NFL.
    So all lockouts are the same?

  26. #67

    Default Re: Stern to retire

    I love Stern's personality and agree with most of what he's done. He's made a few mistakes along the way, sure, but who hasn't. I hope he stays involved with the league and I can't wait for the inevitable memoir and whatever league award they decide to name after him. The David Stern Executive of the Year Award brought presented by Kia.

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  28. #68
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    Default Re: Stern to retire

    David Stern is without question the best commissioner currently in North American sports. You have to look at the big picture, not a myopic view such as, he hurt the Pacers after the brawl. First, that is one decision in a 30 year career. Second, the Commishioners job is to protect the league, not protect each team in the league. If you can't see past the Pacers, and look at how the league has changed, I can't help you. Also, saying that the league would have grown without Stern is laughable at best. Who was bigger to their sport, MJ or Gretzky? What did Jordan do that Gretzky didn't? Maybe some of you should give Stern a lot more credit.

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    Hockey is never going to be as popular as basketball in America, just as basketball will never surpass football.

    Now, basketball and baseball are very comparable, especially on the world stage. The nba has done far better than baseball at capitalizing on that, IMO.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  30. #70

    Default Re: Stern to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by kent beckley View Post
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    David Stern is without question the best commissioner currently in North American sports. You have to look at the big picture, not a myopic view such as, he hurt the Pacers after the brawl. First, that is one decision in a 30 year career. Second, the Commishioners job is to protect the league, not protect each team in the league. If you can't see past the Pacers, and look at how the league has changed, I can't help you. Also, saying that the league would have grown without Stern is laughable at best. Who was bigger to their sport, MJ or Gretzky? What did Jordan do that Gretzky didn't? Maybe some of you should give Stern a lot more credit.
    Considering his competition, being the best isn't impressive at all. And its not that Stern hurt the Pacers. Stern hurt small market teams, while continuing to add more small market teams. Helping to build to this point where the NBA is in 3rd place behind both MLB and NFL.

    25 teams out of 30 every year can't know they have no shot of winning a title and expect a league to be a success. You have to have some shred of parity. Baseball and Football have over half their fanbases at the beginning of the year, believing they can win a title. Get to the playoffs, then anything can happen. Where as in the NBA is crazy easy to get to the playoffs, but so hard for all but a handful of superstar laden big market teams to get through it.

  31. #71
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    You're assuming that all 4 major sports commissioners are incompetent.

    I don't think you realize exactly how hard it is to do the job well, let alone to sustain it for 30 years.

    Here's a hint: if the fans all love you, you're probably not very good at your job.

    You're also comparing apples to oranges. It is far harder for one or two players to impose their will in a baseball or nfl playoff. In the nba, where only 5 players play at a time, it's much easier.

    If the nba wants to legislate parity, they have to change the rules of basketball. Jordan is still Jordan, no matter if he plays in Chicago or Minnesota. Tim Duncan is Tim Duncan, no matter if he plays in San Antonio or New York. The small market thing is just a crutch.
    Last edited by Kstat; 10-26-2012 at 01:35 PM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  32. #72

    Default Re: Stern to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    You're assuming that all 4 major sports commissioners are incompetent.

    I don't think you realize exactly how hard it is to do the job well, let alone to sustain it for 30 years.

    Here's a hint: if the fans all love you, you're probably not very good at your job.
    Hockey is not a major sport. At this point if you want to refer to the 4 Major Sports, one of them is the MLS and lol that. Its the 3 Major Sports.

    See the problem here is, that just because the fans hate you. Doesn't mean you are doing a good job.

    Goodell seems to simply chase issues nobody cares about. His punishments are completely arbitrary and seems to be based on how much punishment would hurt the league. Which I guess is fine if you just came out and said that.

    Selig is a moron. Single Elimination in BASEBALL WTF. Not to mention letting an all-star exhibition affect the World Series. And so many other little things. Not the least of which was pretending like PEDs weren't an issue.

    Whoever the NHL Commissioner is, they just canceled games for the second time in less than a decade. Even if he is good at his job. He has to take some flak for that.

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    Hockey is not a major sport TO YOU.

    In some places in America, basketball isn't a major sport, either.

    I'm not saying stern was great because people hated him. I'm saying he was great because he did a great job. You're basing your opinion of his career on your personal dislike for him. My point was that you aren't really supposed to base it on that.
    Last edited by Kstat; 10-26-2012 at 01:41 PM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
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    It wasn't Jordan, it was Bird and Magic. I am also pretty sure basketball has always been more popular than hockey. There were more people craving exciting basketball than craving exciting hockey.

    Most of what has happened to increase the NBA's popularity had more to do with Bird and Magic than Stern. Sure Stern helped, but don't ever value a single executive over the players and the sport.

  35. #75

    Default Re: Stern to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Hockey is not a major sport TO YOU.

    In some places in America, basketball isn't a major sport, either.

    I'm not saying stern was great because people hated him. I'm saying he was great because he did a great job. You're basing your opinion of his career on your personal dislike for him. My point was that you aren't really supposed to base it on that.
    Hockey is not a major sports. Major sports don't have a lockout every time their CBA expires. Major Sports don't get out attended by MLS. Thats barely a top 10 soccer league, having better attendance than it.

    In America. You have the NFL. Then quite a ways below that, you have Baseball and Basketball, MLB and NBA that is. Then significantly below that. Is MLS and the NHL.

    There are parts of the country where NHL is popular. But not enough for ESPN to show their games apparently.

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