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Thread: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

  1. #2326
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Brewer is one of my favorite players to watch in transition. I think he's the best in the NBA at running the lanes and finishing in transition.

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    PD Magician Magic P's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    First the irony.

    A week ago, as the Heat were preparing to play at Staples Center, LeBron James was asked about the Lakers' offseason additions of Steve Nash and Dwight Howard at, essentially, pennies on the dollar.

    "If there's one team that can pull off something like that, it would be the Lakers," James said. "They got Pau Gasol for a bag of chips."

    Now the question is whether the Lakers are poised to dump Gasol for a bag of chips, amid the increasingly apparent desperation of Mike D'Antoni, who has deemed the former All-Star no longer starter-worthy.

    That, of course, has triggered the expected Gasol trade rumors, a player who, TNT's Kenny Smith accurately pointed out Monday night, seemingly is valued everywhere but with the Lakers.


    "I really disagree with Pau Gasol being on the bench," Smith said. "If he's not good enough to start on your team, you can trade him because he's good enough to start on any other team in the NBA."

    As TNT analyst Steve Kerr pointed out during the broadcast of Lakers-Bulls, "If the Lakers are going to play with the style over the roster, that means they have to do something with Pau Gasol trade-wise."

    In other words, this is not random speculation at play here.

    So, first Heat things first.

    Pau Gasol and Chris Bosh can be swapped straight up.

    The salaries work.

    And with Gasol having only this season and next on his contract, it would be one avenue for the Heat to escape severe long-term Big Three luxury-tax penalties.

    For the Lakers, Bosh would provide the extended shooting range D'Antoni prefers, with Bosh draining jumpers at a prolific rate this season. And alongside Dwight Howard, Bosh's rebounding issues would not be as exposed.

    The issue there is the Heat are not nearly as desperate as the Lakers.

    The Lakers seemingly have to shake up their ill-fitting core (a problem exacerbated by selecting an ill-fitting coach).

    The Heat last time we checked still were atop the Eastern Conference, even with Bosh mired in his rebounding funk.

    So it comes down to the Lakers' desperation, especially amid the Lakers' reluctance to take on an extended max deal, such as Bosh's contract that runs through 2016.

    For alternate answers, we turned to ESPN's trade machine, which told us this works:

    Heat get: Paul Gasol.

    Lakers get: Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem, Joel Anthony, James Jones, Dexter Pittman.

    (We tried four-for-ones, but were told those deals failed.)

    Debate, if you will, whether that would be another Gasol-for-bag-of-chips deal.

    The upside for the Heat would be clear, especially with Gasol, even on his tendinitis-laden knees, having only two seasons left on his contract.

    For the Lakers, it would provide the type of outside shooting (Miller, Jones) D'Antoni covets and Howard thrived alongside in Los Angeles, as well as a pair of team defenders (Haslem, Anthony) to bolster a team that plays no team defense.

    Yes, a five-for-one would be difficult, forcing the Lakers, at least temporarily, to cut four players (we're[..]uming Robert Sacre, Devin Ebanks, Darius Morris plus one harder cut, possibly Chris Duhon).

    For the Heat, it would leave a starting lineup of Bosh, Gasol, James, Dwyane Wade and Mario Chalmers, plus a top five in reserve of Shane Battier, Ray Allen, Norris Cole, Rashard Lewis and Chris Andersen. It also would allow the Heat to keep the promise of Jarvis Varnado, possibly re-sign Josh Harrellson and fill out the roster with three others (Kenyon Martin?)

    The rub is Haslem, who has shown unceasing loyalty. Otherwise, Miller would have been an amnesty offseason cut, anyway, and Jones is not playing. The need for Anthony would be lessened by the length of Andersen and Varnado, and Pittman likely would be cut as soon as such a transaction would be official.

    Could the Lakers do better?

    Sure, but it also has been made clear that if Kobe Bryant and Dwight Howard stay, there is no desire for a third, max-level, Bo!!ype contract. Such a five-for-one would provide flexibility to rebuild the roster, possibly with the Heat kicking in a draft pick (they hold the 76ers' lottery-protected pick in June).

    Beyond all that, the Heat at least have to make a pitch for four others reasons:

    The Celtics.

    The Knicks.

    The Nets.

    The Pacers.

    Put Gasol on any of those rosters, particularly the Celtics, and the road through the East would grow all the more challenging.

    Of course, Howard for Bosh also works under the cap, if the Lakers were to go in that direction.

    Either way, it's worth Heat investigation.

    Especially amid the Lakers' desperation
    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/m...,6084496.story

    Meant to post this one not the Dwight article. I think this would weaken the Heat, any one else agree?
    Last edited by Magic P; 01-22-2013 at 08:25 PM.

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  4. #2328
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    It would make Miami better, Gasol is underrated and Bosh is overrated, they are both soft but Bosh is softer.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 01-22-2013 at 09:03 PM.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Pau is definitely underrated.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Depends on which trade you're talking about I was thinking the espn trade machine proposal would make Miami worst. The straight up trade of Bosh for Gasol would make Miami better.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    Depends on which trade you're talking about I was thinking the espn trade machine proposal would make Miami worst. The straight up trade of Bosh for Gasol would make Miami better.
    They would still have enough shooters to compete.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

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  8. #2332
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Giving Miami a legit center would be bad news for everyone. Definitely not a fan of that trade simply because Miami would crush everyone.
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Why would the Lakers want Miami's trash that has long term contracts?

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    I wonder how Kobe would feel about that. Pau hasn't played too well for them lately. And I'm sure Bryant knows that, of the three (Nash, Pau, and Dwight) Pau is going to be viewed as the most disposable...but still, I think he'd rather get rid one of the others. (Dwight.)

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Fun to see the self-entitled Celtics and their fans struggling.

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  13. #2336
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Pau is out of shape and their shooters don't scare me except for Ray, not saying that beating them will be easy though. I do think they become a better passing team with Pau.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Pistons are 4 games back of a playoff spot with 41 games to go, only having to pass two teams to get to 8th.

    Sure, it won't happen, but it's nice to say, especially after being 7 - 21 about a month ago.

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    The interesting part is the pistons are 5-1 against the 3 teams directly above them in the east.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    Pistons are 4 games back of a playoff spot with 41 games to go, only having to pass two teams to get to 8th.

    Sure, it won't happen, but it's nice to say, especially after being 7 - 21 about a month ago.
    Boston is somewhat on a decline right now, even Atlanta is slowly going down. It's still possible for them to catch up if they keep on winning.

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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...under-tuesday/

    Sports writer reasoning:

    "The Indiana Pacers defense is awesome, but they need a lot of help on offense. Oh, but they're getting former all star Danny Granger back in a few weeks. I bet that will help. I wonder if they'll trade him!?"

    If there is one certainty, that is there is no way in HELL Danny can get traded before the deadline. Not happening. Yet sports writers from all over continue to contemplate it. What in the hell goes through these guys heads??
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    Why would the Lakers want Miami's trash that has long term contracts?
    For one thing, it makes sense for both teams. Lakers want a faster PF with long range? Bosh can be the answer. Heat want a legit big man that can play center and can be an option in a half-court play? Gasol is a great candidate.

    But I think Miami will not do that simply because they're not that desperate as the writer suggests. The problem with the Lakers right now is that the system just doesn't fit everybody.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by 15th parallel View Post
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    For one thing, it makes sense for both teams. Lakers want a faster PF with long range? Bosh can be the answer. Heat want a legit big man that can play center and can be an option in a half-court play? Gasol is a great candidate.

    But I think Miami will not do that simply because they're not that desperate as the writer suggests. The problem with the Lakers right now is that the system just doesn't fit everybody.
    Bosh isn't Miami's trash. The other trade is Miami's trash.

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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15th parallel View Post
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    For one thing, it makes sense for both teams. Lakers want a faster PF with long range? Bosh can be the answer. Heat want a legit big man that can play center and can be an option in a half-court play? Gasol is a great candidate.

    But I think Miami will not do that simply because they're not that desperate as the writer suggests. The problem with the Lakers right now is that the system just doesn't fit everybody.
    I hate that they try to use a ridiculous system instead of playing to their player's strengths.

    D'Antoni is a terrible coach.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

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    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

  22. #2344

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    Bosh isn't Miami's trash. The other trade is Miami's trash.
    Sorry for misunderstanding you on that. Well the article suggests that it's practically impossible so I never thought that it was what you are referring as Miami's trash.

    On Bosh-Gasol trade, it will make sense for both but I believe Miami won't bite that simply because they can get better deals than that.

  23. #2345

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    I hate that they try to use a ridiculous system instead of playing to their player's strengths.

    D'Antoni is a terrible coach.
    It really is a problem with a system-type of coaches. But I think the problem also exists on the type of their roster as well. They just don't have a decent bench (and the only decent one got injured), and practically their starting 5 is old and slow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 15th parallel View Post
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    It really is a problem with a system-type of coaches. But I think the problem also exists on the type of their roster as well. They just don't have a decent bench (and the only decent one got injured), and practically their starting 5 is old and slow.
    I agree they could definitely put together a better roster. There are SEVERAL powerforwards that would be a nice fit, and I never thought Nash was a good idea.
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy


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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    I don't think he will take a pay cut. He was way to concerned about getting traded when he could have signed with the Nets as a free agent if he opted out.
    That was last season, when he was torn about wanting to stay in Orlando. He wanted Orlando to trade his rights. He never wanted to go to the Lakers, and who can blame him. The Lake show is a train wreck. I think he ends up in Brooklyn or Dallas. Cuban will promise him whatever he wants.
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    He wants the money and the destination. When it comes down to it he will take the money.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    He wants the money and the destination. When it comes down to it he will take the money.
    I don't think money wins out in this case. He will get a max deal where ever he goes. One extra year on the deal is not going to matter if he has a chance to join a great team. He has been to the finals as the star of his team. I think most players who get to that point want nothing more than to get back to that level.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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