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Thread: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

  1. #726

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    I think you and me when damn near the only people saying he would be great in NOLA and signed a fair deal. Everyone else called him Murphy lite and way over paid.
    it's because this forum has like 5 people during the offseason. Anderson was getting hype from many of the better analysts.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    what "winning formula"? You are talking as if shooting 3s is a bad thing. He takes good shots and makes them.
    Murphy's issue wasn't that he could hit 3s, but that he had serious defensive flaws and he didn't play fundamentally sound basketball in some other situations, like boxing out.
    The Lakers would kill right now to replace Pau Gasol with Ryan Anderson.
    Having your starting PF score 55% of his points from behind the arc is a bad thing. Having your starting PF shooting .7 FTA per game is a bad thing. Shooting threes is not inherently a bad thing. But when you are paying that guy $36 million over 4 years and he is your starting PF, it is a bad thing.

    It's not so much an Anderson sucks, or I don't like him thing, it's a I don't like his contract, and I wouldn't want him to be a starter on my team thing. At this point in his career, he's a good sixth man I think, but I also think you can get pretty good 6th men for less than 9 million per. The same was true for Murphy when he was putting up his best years. He could have been a good 6th man, but his contract was garbage and he was trying to be an every day starter. That is what I mean by not a recipe for winning basketball or a winning basketball team. If Anderson's deal was 4 years, 24 million, and he was a bench guy, I think he'd be a great value.

    Also, remember I started this by calling him Troy Murphy 2.0, not Troy Murphy Lite. The guy is a little better than Murphy, but they serve similar needs on a team, and they both have the same issues, Anderson's may not be as glaring, but his contract is. The nice thing for the Hornets though, and why they may have been a good team to give him this deal, is that it runs out same time as Davis comes up for extension.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 11-27-2012 at 11:10 AM.

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  3. #728

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Hasheem Thabeet with 13/10, first career double double. Good for him.


    He's had some decent games this year. Maybe he's beginning to figure it out.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    He's had some decent games this year. Maybe he's beginning to figure it out.
    I think Thabeet can stick around in the NBA for a long time with his length and if he can just figure out some of the nuances defensively. Even Darko started to carve out a niche for himself in the same way.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    I think people forget just how productive Murphy actually was.

  6. #731

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    It's only been 12 games, but Andy Varejao's putting up 14/14/3 with 1.5 steals. He's not an All Star it's a travesty if he keeps this up.

    Andy was/is my T-Bird's X-factor. He's showing exactly why he'd look real good in a Pacers uni, especially for 8.3 mil this year and 9 mil next season. (Sigh)

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    what "winning formula"? You are talking as if shooting 3s is a bad thing. He takes good shots and makes them.
    Murphy's issue wasn't that he could hit 3s, but that he had serious defensive flaws and he didn't play fundamentally sound basketball in some other situations, like boxing out.
    The Lakers would kill right now to replace Pau Gasol with Ryan Anderson.
    As a Laker fan that is 100% FALSE. Now if we got Vasquez, AND Ryan Anderson...then we could talk. But a straight up trade of Ryan "if I'm not hitting 3's, I'm useless" Anderson for 2 time world champion, multiple time all star Pau Gasol?! Nah, I think we're good.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Vasquez is playing great today, I'm so proud of my guy
    I like Vasquez too, but he suffers from the same issue as Lin. They turn the ball over a ton.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    As a Laker fan that is 100% FALSE. Now if we got Vasquez, AND Ryan Anderson...then we could talk. But a straight up trade of Ryan "if I'm not hitting 3's, I'm useless" Anderson for 2 time world champion, multiple time all star Pau Gasol?! Nah, I think we're good.
    Any NBA player that is supposed to be an offensive weapon and that is not hitting his shot is worthless, see Roy, see West, see Danny last year.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Any NBA player that is supposed to be an offensive weapon and that is not hitting his shot is worthless, see Roy, see West, see Danny last year.
    Well yes, but most offensive threats, especially at the PF position, should be able to contribute SOMETHING else aside from hitting 3's. Ryan Anderson isn't as bad as i'm making it seem, but if he isn't hitting three's then he's worthless. He's not getting rebounds, he's not getting to the FT line, he's not playing defense, etc.

    Roy is still a very good interior defender, and Danny has a good mid range, and post up game. He also gets to the FT line, so he can score in other ways. West can score in other ways as well, although he is close to the same boat defensively and at times on the boards as Anderson is.

    My point is, you have to be able to do something OTHER THAN hit 3's for 36 Mil.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Andy was/is my T-Bird's X-factor. He's showing exactly why he'd look real good in a Pacers uni, especially for 8.3 mil this year and 9 mil next season. (Sigh)
    Why the sigh? Lol there's never been a way we--or any other team would have been able to acquire him. If there were, he'd be playing elsewhere by now.

    Would he look great in a Pacers uni? HELL YEAH. But he'd look great on ANY team.

  14. #737

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Having your starting PF score 55% of his points from behind the arc is a bad thing. Having your starting PF shooting .7 FTA per game is a bad thing. Shooting threes is not inherently a bad thing. But when you are paying that guy $36 million over 4 years and he is your starting PF, it is a bad thing.

    It's not so much an Anderson sucks, or I don't like him thing, it's a I don't like his contract, and I wouldn't want him to be a starter on my team thing. At this point in his career, he's a good sixth man I think, but I also think you can get pretty good 6th men for less than 9 million per. The same was true for Murphy when he was putting up his best years. He could have been a good 6th man, but his contract was garbage and he was trying to be an every day starter. That is what I mean by not a recipe for winning basketball or a winning basketball team. If Anderson's deal was 4 years, 24 million, and he was a bench guy, I think he'd be a great value.

    Also, remember I started this by calling him Troy Murphy 2.0, not Troy Murphy Lite. The guy is a little better than Murphy, but they serve similar needs on a team, and they both have the same issues, Anderson's may not be as glaring, but his contract is. The nice thing for the Hornets though, and why they may have been a good team to give him this deal, is that it runs out same time as Davis comes up for extension.
    Why? He's very efficient.

    If he keeps up his current play, he's underpaid.

    Murphy and Anderson are similar in the sense that neither was a quick athletic guy and both shot 3s. But they are very different players. Murphy was a horrible defender who didn't hustle and specialized in collecting all the defensive boards. Anderson is a hustle player, tough, much better offensive rebounder and an average defender (not crappy by any means).

  15. #738

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    WARNING THIS IS A RANT!!!

    For 3 years I wanted JJ Hickson, and last year the Kings let him go. I wanted Bird to get him. Mike Wells stated the Pacers weren't interested in him. What a boneheaded blunder on Bird's part. Bird stated when he came to the FO he didn't know the players. Bird never made a truer statement while in the Pacers FO.

    After the Kings let JJ go last season, Portland picked him up for peanuts. He played 19 games for Portland averaging 15/8. This season JJ is averaging a double double of 11/10.5 He can play both the 5 & 4. He's better than anything the Pacers have had in years as a b/u. It just grinds on me everytime I see his game production and Bird wasn't even interested in him. Grrr! Another blunder by the Pacers FO. There would never have been a reason for Walsh to have traded for Mahinmi if Bird had gotten Hickson. The Pacers would be money head by not having to have traded for Mahinmi, re-sign Tyler, or re-sign DWest to a expensive new contract. Money that could be used for the scorer the Pacers truly need.

    END OF RANT

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  17. #739

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    As a Laker fan that is 100% FALSE. Now if we got Vasquez, AND Ryan Anderson...then we could talk. But a straight up trade of Ryan "if I'm not hitting 3's, I'm useless" Anderson for 2 time world champion, multiple time all star Pau Gasol?! Nah, I think we're good.
    How about a Ryan "I AM hitting my 3s, I hustle, I'm 24 years old, I'm healthy, I fit into your team very well and I make 8 mil" Anderson
    for
    Pau "I'm getting old, I have tendinitis in both knees, I don't make much sense in the current system and I'm horribly misused by the Lakers for the 2nd straight season, and I make 19-20 mil a year, which will actually be 90 mil+ next year including taxes" Gasol?

  18. #740

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Don't let JJ's numbers fool you. He's pretty bad, imo. Even with those numbers Portland barely picked him back up.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Well yes, but most offensive threats, especially at the PF position, should be able to contribute SOMETHING else aside from hitting 3's. Ryan Anderson isn't as bad as i'm making it seem, but if he isn't hitting three's then he's worthless. He's not getting rebounds, he's not getting to the FT line, he's not playing defense, etc.

    Roy is still a very good interior defender, and Danny has a good mid range, and post up game. He also gets to the FT line, so he can score in other ways. West can score in other ways as well, although he is close to the same boat defensively and at times on the boards as Anderson is.

    My point is, you have to be able to do something OTHER THAN hit 3's for 36 Mil.
    Ray Allen has done pretty well for been able to hit 3's, Reggie did pretty well for been able to shoot 3's, I don't get why because somebody takes must of his shots from 3 that guy instantly becomes garbage? again I understand that many of us are traumatized with stretch forwards and we all hated JOB and his Murphy man crush but the reality is that every team in the NBA needs a 3 point specialist either as an starter or as a bench player, almost every previous NBA Champion had an stretch forward or two to help them win a championship.

  20. #742

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Well yes, but most offensive threats, especially at the PF position, should be able to contribute SOMETHING else aside from hitting 3's. Ryan Anderson isn't as bad as i'm making it seem, but if he isn't hitting three's then he's worthless. He's not getting rebounds, he's not getting to the FT line, he's not playing defense, etc.

    Roy is still a very good interior defender, and Danny has a good mid range, and post up game. He also gets to the FT line, so he can score in other ways. West can score in other ways as well, although he is close to the same boat defensively and at times on the boards as Anderson is.

    My point is, you have to be able to do something OTHER THAN hit 3's for 36 Mil.
    yeah well, it's not true.

    And even speaking of this theoretical player who doesn't do anything besides hitting 3s (which isn't Anderson), he still spacing the floor even on a bad night. Which is huge on a team that uses a heavily spacing based system (like D'Antoni's or really half the league's today), or has a great low post scorer (whether it's a dominant big, or elite penetrating/cutting guards), or has great PnR duos.
    Last edited by hackashaq; 11-27-2012 at 12:14 PM.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    How about a Ryan "I AM hitting my 3s, I hustle, I'm 24 years old, I'm healthy, I fit into your team very well and I make 8 mil" Anderson
    for
    Pau "I'm getting old, I have tendinitis in both knees, I don't make much sense in the current system and I'm horribly misused by the Lakers for the 2nd straight season, and I make 19-20 mil a year, which will actually be 90 mil+ next year including taxes" Gasol?
    Offensively, sure, but he's a bad defender. Hustle is nice and all, but he is a minus defender at the 4 position. Offensively, he fits well with the Lakers, but defensively, not so much.

    I don't hate Anderson, I just want a PF that's an above average defender/rebounder and can get me some easy points on the inside. If Anderson was good defensively, He's get more praise I'm sure.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    yeah well, it's not true.
    7.8 Rebs isn't bad, bout average for a PF. But no, he doesn't play good defense. Just watch the games

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    One thing I've learned watching Portland is their starters never leave the game, so they will generally accumulate good numbers, because they're the only ones playing.

    They won't win many games that way, though.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Ray Allen has done pretty well for been able to hit 3's, Reggie did pretty well for been able to shoot 3's, I don't get why because somebody takes must of his shots from 3 that guy instantly becomes garbage? again I understand that many of us are traumatized with stretch forwards and we all hated JOB and his Murphy man crush but the reality is that every team in the NBA needs a 3 point specialist either as an starter or as a bench player, almost every previous NBA Champion had an stretch forward or two to help them win a championship.
    I'm not saying he's garbage, I'm just saying he isn't a guard lol. He's a PF, so he should be able to rebound at a higher rate, make some type of presence known defensively--even if it's just a physical presence. Yes many championship contending teams had stretch forwards (Battier, Horry, Rasheed Wallace) but those guys ALL make an impact defensively--whereas Ryan Anderson does not. That was my point.

  26. #747

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Offensively, sure, but he's a bad defender. Hustle is nice and all, but he is a minus defender at the 4 position. Offensively, he fits well with the Lakers, but defensively, not so much.

    I don't hate Anderson, I just want a PF that's an above average defender/rebounder and can get me some easy points on the inside. If Anderson was good defensively, He's get more praise I'm sure.
    But he's not a bad defender. He's ok.
    And he is a strong rebounder - especially on the offensive glass. Gasol is at 9.1 boards per 36, Anderson is at 8.6. Advanced / pace adjusted stats are basically identical. Not to mention, Anderson right now is having his worst offensive rebounding season --- still better than Gasol, but it's likely to get even better. So I don't really see that point.
    Also, he does score some easy points inside -- just a normal part of being a hustle player / offensive rebounder. What he's not is a go-to low post talent like Gasol - which the Lakers doesn't need right now.

    That's besides age, health and contract. The Hornets will never offer him for Gasol, but if they did, I think the Lakers would grab it and run. It solves most of their tax issues, makes them a sensible D'Antoni team and upgrades their health and energy. Then just replace Ron Ron with an elite two-way athlete/shooter like Batum, and you have D'Antoni's wet dream of a team with great defense to top it off.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    But he's not a bad defender. He's ok.
    And he is a strong rebounder - especially on the offensive glass. Gasol is at 9.1 boards per 36, Anderson is at 8.6. Advanced / pace adjusted stats are basically identical. Not to mention, Anderson right now is having his worst offensive rebounding season --- still better than Gasol, but it's likely to get even better. So I don't really see that point.
    Also, he does score some easy points inside -- just a normal part of being a hustle player / offensive rebounder. What he's not is a go-to low post talent like Gasol - which the Lakers doesn't need right now.

    That's besides age, health and contract. The Hornets will never offer him for Gasol, but if they did, I think the Lakers would grab it and run. It solves most of their tax issues, makes them a sensible D'Antoni team and upgrades their health and energy. Then just replace Ron Ron with an elite two-way athlete/shooter like Batum, and you have D'Antoni's wet dream of a team with great defense to top it off.
    I think he's bad. Bad to me is when you can't guard someone one on one without receiving help. He's not able to do that against good offensive PF's. And his rebounding is average. You look at advanced stats, I look at regular numbers. They're all the same in the end--his per 36 REB PG numbers are below 9 a game. THAT'S AVERAGE FOR A PF and is certainly not capable of getting double figure rebounding numbers consistently.

    We just agree to disagree. You'd prefer a stretch 4 who can knock down three's, hustle, and grab a few offensive boards. I prefer an athletic PF who can help defend and rebound offensively and defensively while also being able to score on the inside.

    Would that team you described be pretty good for D'Antoni's system? Hell yes. Would they win a championship? idk, he's never won one before utilizing this system in PHO.

    Also: It's hard to have a great defensive team when your starting PG is as poor of a defender as Nash.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Don't let JJ's numbers fool you. He's pretty bad, imo. Even with those numbers Portland barely picked him back up.
    I agree he is a liability for them IMO. I have watched all there games. He hustles and rebounds but he is not a very good basketball player he hurts Portland on defense much more than he helps. They are the worst defensive team in basketball and J.J is a big reason. Myers Leonard is playing better than him IMO he defends and brings the same energy in a much bigger frame.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    I've always thought very little of Hickson.

    He's a decent rotation player and offensive guy off the bench, but I definitely would not throw big bucks at him to be my starter or main big man.

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