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Thread: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

  1. #3351
    Formerly PacerFanInAZ Cactus Jax's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    http://deadspin.com/5987711/klay-tho...s+pacers-fight

    This is kind of funny and sad at the same time.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

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  3. #3352
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    If you click on the paper that is linked in the article there is some more good data as well. They conclude that Larry Sanders is the best interior defender in the NBA right now, and Hibbert isn't far behind. The big reason Hibbert is behind is because teams shoot better from the mid-range when he's still close to the basket, which reflects the Pacers strategy for him to not come out of that area very often. But as the article noted, when Hibbert is around the rim, teams don't challenge him very often and he has a better defensive FG percentage on close shots than anybody else in the league.

    Mahinimi isn't in all the charts, but when he's within 5 feet of the shooter, he's 13th in defensive field goal percentage out of 52 (Hibbert is 5th). IMO, on that particular statistic it's kind of hard to separate out their individual defense from the results of the overall team defense though.

    Hansbrough is within 5 feet of the shot less than every other interior defender tracked in the league. West isn't included on the charts, so no way to compare if it's a function of playing next to Hibbert/Mahinmi. But Hibbert and Mahinmi are close to the shooter about the same amount of the time.

    Some notables that grade out really badly: Varajeo, Love, Monroe, Scola, Lee. Scola in particular is really bad because teams love to attack the rim when he's close to the basket (6th highest percentage of 52 players of shots taken close to the rim when he's near the basket), they score at a high percentage (teams shot the best percentage against him at the rim than anybody else measured), and when he's within 5 feet of the shooter anywhere on the floor teams have the 6th highest percentage against him of anybody measured.
    That paper was brought up and discussed several pages back... probably should have its own thread.

    Lack of quality defensive stats is a glaring problem, so these new ones obtained from the newfangled camera technology are great.

    But I'd be cautious about concluding anything from these stats until they've been scrutinized a bit. After all, those numbers show Bargnani to be #2 overall (after Sanders) in proximal FG% - that doesn't quite pass the smell test now, does it?

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  5. #3353

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    That paper was brought up and discussed several pages back... probably should have its own thread.

    Lack of quality defensive stats is a glaring problem, so these new ones obtained from the newfangled camera technology are great.

    But I'd be cautious about concluding anything from these stats until they've been scrutinized a bit. After all, those numbers show Bargnani to be #2 overall (after Sanders) in proximal FG% - that doesn't quite pass the smell test now, does it?
    It doesn't at first glance, but looking at the other data available it makes a little more sense. Bargnani doesn't qualify for the first list (shots where the defender is within 5 feet of the basket). So the logical conclusion would be that he's not in the paint as often as other interior defenders, and therefore more of the shots where he would be proximal would be midrange or 3 point shots. Appendix 2 shows that Bargnani has one of the lowest rates recorded of being 5 feet or less from the shot attempted. So he doesn't appear to be helping off his man very much.

    We also know aside from statistics that Toronto doesn't try to put Bargnani on top scorers, that Bargnani is not very good at help defense, and that he's not the type of big man to play at the rim very often. So his inclusion on that list seems to be more of a function that he's being measured by shots often by his man at the midrange level or 3 point line, while other players have more help defense situations and close to the basket shots in their data sample.

    Obviously help situations and close to the basket situations are going to generally cause higher FG% against numbers. So while Bargnani's defense might be underrated, the overall data seems to suggest that it's more an unfair comparison that lets him get that high on the list.

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  7. #3354
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy



    #championship

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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    Obviously help situations and close to the basket situations are going to generally cause higher FG% against numbers. So while Bargnani's defense might be underrated, the overall data seems to suggest that it's more an unfair comparison that lets him get that high on the list.
    Which is exactly why new stats need to be properly understood. If there's such an easy way to game this stat, then it's not very informative isn't it?

    Your interpretation of Appendix 2 doesn't bode well for Tyler Hansbrough, since he leads the league in that category But as you say, different situations could end up in similar looking stats, which cuts down considerably on its utility. Someone needs to find a better way of filtering/combining the available data.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Lots of action tonight around us. Heat, Nets, Knciks, Celtics and Hawks all playing. Let's start this month off with a road W.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    So, uh, I wish we had known about this before we played the Warriors this year...

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ight?hpt=hp_t3

    Bahahahahahahaha

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/s...09966984970240

    I doubt that we'd do it.....but Aaron Brooks is now a FA.

    It's official. The Sacramento Kings have bought out Aaron Brooks, sources close to the point guard confirm.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Unless there's a personality issue I'm not aware of, I would love to see us go after Aaron Brooks in place of DJ Augustine.

  15. #3360
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Unless there's a personality issue I'm not aware of, I would love to see us go after Aaron Brooks in place of DJ Augustine.
    Definitely, and I don't even think he's any good. At the deadline I sort of wondered if Sacto'd do Augustin for him straight up but didn't want to because Brooks had a 3mil player option for next year and he's not worth keeping. But I'd definitely do it now.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    I always thought Brooks was a better version of DC, not sure the Pacers would be his first choice though, NY should be all over him I think.

  17. #3362
    PD Magician Magic P's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Brooks is going to Houston

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I always thought Brooks was a better version of DC, not sure the Pacers would be his first choice though, NY should be all over him I think.
    With the Knicks backcourt rotation of Felton, Kidd, Shumpert, JR and Pablo....there's no room nor $$$ to sign him.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    Brooks is going to Houston
    Yet another nice move for them.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Conley has become such an average point guard, he has that unclutch DC thing in him, I wouldn't trade Hill for him, he is soft as a baby a** too.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    #championship

    Don't tell him Amaechi used to suit up in that same locker room.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy



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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Is Russell Westbrook a dog or a cat?


  24. #3369
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    Is Russell Westbrook a dog or a cat?

    LOL @ Harden's answer.

  25. #3370
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Marc J. Spears ‏@SpearsNBAYahoo

    Cavaliers have waived guard Josh Selby.
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    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Bosh is frustrating tonight. Not only he seems to settle for that mid range shot (if only he made those shots) and also being allergic to the paint, he hasn't grabbed a single rebound. Knicks will get that unfortunately.
    You **** up once, you lose two teeth

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    this heat knicks game is amazing

  28. #3373
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Wow. Not only did JR Smith completely stink it up in the 4th quarter today, but he is now acting like a complete punk on twitter. What a waste of space.


    Last edited by IrishPacer; 03-03-2013 at 05:21 PM.
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  30. #3374
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Ibaka is getting kicked out.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    What a game OMG.

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